werner@utastro.UUCP (Werner Uhrig) (07/11/88)
[ Follow-ups to this article will go to comp.sys.mac ONLY, by default ] so I spend Sunday afternoon polishing my Mac-interface; I try to set things up so that when the Mac boots, it gives me a choice to either run Finder or MultiFinder in the "most convenient way" .... I try to use "ToMultiFinder-1.1" as StartUp-application..... ... uh, wait, if it is not in the "blessed folder", it can't find Finder and MultiFinder (at least, I could not get it to do it by specifying a path; could be my fault) Anyway, I put "ToMultiFinder-1.1" in my "blessed folder" and try to make it the StartUp-application again .... .... can't do that! the name of the Application is "too long" (I am told)!! well, shorten the name to "ToMF" - now it's acceptable! (I wonder what would happen if I had buried my blessed folder deeper in the folder-hierarchy. I suspect that it would be possible that the names of all the folders in the path could add up to be too long to have something as the startup-application that has a name only 1-character long ....!! but I don't care to confirm that (today, anyway) .... So, I boot again, tell ToMultiFinder to give me the MultiFinder .... .... eeek, the Applications (VersaTerm-3.1, QUED/M) can't start up: they can't find one or the other of the files they seem to need to find!!! Ah, yes, I have changed names of some folders in the hierarchy-organization. I bet that MultiFinder (or is it the application?) are looking in a non-existing path ... Now, let's see, how does MultiFinder know what applications to bring up??!! Looking in the "blessed-folder" doesn't show a file with a name like "MultiFinder Startup" .... hmmm.... it wouldn't be using the file "Finder Startup" now, or would it? that wouldn't be right ...... ..ok, let's remove "Finder Startup" from the "blessed folder" and try again. - yep, MultiFinder comes up - all by itself; that was it! Now, let's see, how do I tell MultiFinder about a Startup-Set? Let's look at "About MultiFinder" .... Geee, that isn't any help!!! (remember how nice Switcher and Juggler was in such things?) ...well, I guess, the only way I know that it can be done is to bring up all the applications I want to run under MultiFinder and then making MultiFinder the StartUp application! that seems to write a file "Finder Startup" into the blessed folder (which we now know seems to be the place that such things are remembered in) done and tested - that's ONE-WAY, at least, it can be done. gee, I hope there is a friendlier way to do that: what's wrong with having an ASCII-text file "MultiFinder Startup" which one can edit? or a little utility with a File-Selection Dialogue-window which you use to select all the stuff you want to run at MultiFinder Startup ...? and making multiple sets for different purposes would be so much easier too ... oh, do I hope there is an easier way .... would it be time to buy a manual, maybe for the latest OS-Release? Maybe they actually expect me to read manuals now??? Nooooo, can't be .... the Macintosh interface is for the "rest of them" and thus designed to be intuitive. Besides, with near 20-years of computer experience, and 4 on the Macintosh, I'd be able to figure this out without consulting "paper" (yech), wouldn't I??!! Hmmmm, there most be some bozos hidden among the people working on the user-interface at Apple ... (Is Bozo-the-Clown still around?!? :-) Now, let's take a look at the "About the Finder" window to see how the memory was allocated. In which order are the applications grabbing their memory space..?!? Could be important to influence that in order to be able to free a continguous large block of memory when I need (god-forbid) to use HyperCard, or a similar monster .... ...hmm, the order the applications running under MultiFinder are displayed doesn't reflect the order in which I started them. I wonder if one can influence the memory allocation at all, or if the display reflects the order in which memory was allocated...or if there is a chance in hell to control this aspect of memory allocation in the first place ....oh, well. now, this is strange: this About MF-window keeps blinking about every second? is there a background job running trying to update every so often? ... now it stopped doing that again....strange ... no, something is running in the background, even when the About-window is NOT open .... I can tell by the way Pyro is shooting off fire-works very slowly when idling, even when under the Finder only!!! hmmm, and every once in a while, Pyro switches from the fireworks to a different display: an octagon (delimited by 8 corner-points saying Pyro! (version 3.0b10, if you have to know; yeah, I know, beta ....soo?) well, isn't that the way Pyro now indicates that there are background things going on?! like downloads?! but I am not running anything in the background (he says, knowing darn well that SOMETHING is running ...) I would suspect VersaTerm had I not seen this behavior on a plain Finder-DeskTop.... makes me suspect an INIT !!! now what do we have in the blessed folder, let's see now: We are running standard OS-Release 6.0 (F-6.1/S-6.0) with additional INITs " Vaccine 1.0", Background (to put the Andromeda Galaxy Desktop-cover up), there is MacsBug-6.0b1, of course (gee, I have to get around to explore that one some more soon...), there is PopIt-1.72, Pyro-3.0b10, RESOURCEPATCH.INIT (from SideKick 2.0), SuitCase-1.3, VirusWarningINIT (thanks, Chris), and zApplicationMenu 2.0 .....which ones shall we suspect to show these sudden "spurts of activiy"??!! ... ahhh, life in the fast lane !!! but back to MultiFinder, where we want to figure out how memory is juggled... well, the window "About the Macintosh Finder" shows us what applications are running under MultiFinder, the total memory they grabbed hold off (but no exact number of how much is used/free; that little bar gives a "rough" idea - no more!), tells us the Largest-Unused-Block of Memory (but not the total free ...how about showing used and total memory allocated to an application??!!) ....which is of dubious use, anyway, because often one tries to bring up another application with a memory requirement not much smaller than Largest-Available-Block: Kaboom!! Fireworks - and not the Pyro-variety either!! ahh, the art of memory management ...((-: and how nice it would be to have the right kind of hardware support!! (did I mention I am running a 2.5Meg Mac+?) Gee, if anyone cares to speculate along with me about these things, we could have fun sharing insights, speculate, bad-mouth Apple-people ....(-: all in good fun. even if some grains of solid, technical information would make through the filters .... Hope it rained where you are, too ... Cheers, ---Werner -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ send Email to: werner@rascal.ics.utexas.edu (Internet: 128.83.144.1) .....!ut-sally!rascal.ics.utexas.edu!werner should RASCAL be ill: werner@astro.as.utexas.edu or werner@utastro.UUCP)
goldman@Apple.COM (Phil Goldman) (07/11/88)
In article <2880@utastro.UUCP> werner@utastro.UUCP (Werner Uhrig) writes: > [ToMultiFinder-1.1 problems...] You should probably talk to the author of ToMultiFinder-1.1. This is not an Apple product. > >.... eeek, the Applications (VersaTerm-3.1, QUED/M) can't start up: > they can't find one or the other of the files they seem to need to find!!! > > Ah, yes, I have changed names of some folders in the hierarchy-organization. >I bet that MultiFinder (or is it the application?) are looking in a >non-existing path ... The Finder's startup file does not depend on path names. The only way that a file could no longer be found is if the name of the volume changes, the name of the file changes, or the file is moved to a different folder. >Now, let's see, how does MultiFinder know what applications to bring up??!! >Looking in the "blessed-folder" doesn't show a file with a name like >"MultiFinder Startup" .... hmmm.... it wouldn't be using the file >"Finder Startup" now, or would it? that wouldn't be right ...... > MultiFinder does not "bring up" (i.e. launch) any of these applications, the Finder does. A third party Finder replacement could create its own method for launching apps at startup. In fact, I believe PowerStation does so. In any case, this is the reson for the name. MF simple launches whatever app the launcher requests. >..ok, let's remove "Finder Startup" from the "blessed folder" and try >again. - yep, MultiFinder comes up - all by itself; that was it! > >Now, let's see, how do I tell MultiFinder about a Startup-Set? Let's >look at "About MultiFinder" .... Geee, that isn't any help!!! (remember >how nice Switcher and Juggler was in such things?) Juggler was the pre-release name for MF; its about box was just as descriptive. The Switcher about box consisted of 5 hints, none of which pertained to startup launching. >...well, I guess, the >only way I know that it can be done is to bring up all the applications I >want to run under MultiFinder and then making MultiFinder the StartUp >application! that seems to write a file "Finder Startup" into the blessed >folder (which we now know seems to be the place that such things are >remembered in) done and tested - that's ONE-WAY, at least, it can be done. >gee, I hope there is a friendlier way to do that: what's wrong with having >an ASCII-text file "MultiFinder Startup" which one can edit? or a little >utility with a File-Selection Dialogue-window which you use to select all >the stuff you want to run at MultiFinder Startup ...? You can also select files (apps and documents) by selecting them before choosing "Set Startup..." from the Finder's "Special" menu. The caveat is that all the file must be in the same folder. An utility would be nice, actually. > and making multiple >sets for different purposes would be so much easier too ... You can save the "Finder Startup" file and rename it. Double clicking on it will launch all the appropriate apps and DAs. >oh, do I hope >there is an easier way .... would it be time to buy a manual, maybe for >the latest OS-Release? Maybe they actually expect me to read manuals now??? >Nooooo, can't be .... the Macintosh interface is for the "rest of them" and >thus designed to be intuitive. Besides, with near 20-years of computer >experience, and 4 on the Macintosh, I'd be able to figure this out without >consulting "paper" (yech), wouldn't I??!! Hmmmm, there most be some bozos >hidden among the people working on the user-interface at Apple ... >(Is Bozo-the-Clown still around?!? :-) No matter how intuitive the Mac user interface is, there will always be some actions that are impossible. There will also be actions that are very difficult. The goal is to make sure these two sets contain actions that are not at all useful. It's true that the Finder's set startup command is not as extensible as it could be. However, it is much more extensible than it was, and serious efforts are being made to make it much more so. Hang in there. >Now, let's take a look at the "About the Finder" window to see how the >memory was allocated. In which order are the applications grabbing their >memory space..?!? Could be important to influence that in order to be >able to free a continguous large block of memory when I need (god-forbid) >to use HyperCard, or a similar monster .... > >...hmm, the order the applications running under MultiFinder are displayed >doesn't reflect the order in which I started them. I wonder if one can >influence the memory allocation at all, or if the display reflects the >order in which memory was allocated...or if there is a chance in hell to >control this aspect of memory allocation in the first place ....oh, well. It is a fact that given the current app model where the memory allocated for an app cannot move and no hardware support for virtual memory that fragmentation will occur in MFs allocation scheme. It was a design decision to force the user to become intimately acquainted with this scheme. However, there is a section in the guide to MF that explains it for power users. Basically, MF will allocate space from the top of available memory. Therefore, the power user can play tricks by launching long-lived applications immediately, which would typically be the "Set Startup" apps anyway. >now, this is strange: this About MF-window keeps blinking about every second? >is there a background job running trying to update every so often? ... >now it stopped doing that again....strange ... There is a (harmless) bug in the MacII font manager under MF that causes synthesized fonts (fonts generated to exist at a certain screen bit depth) to be marked purgeable too easily from the system heap when several are used at once. This results in the numbers for the Finder changing even though no real changes have occurred. MF does calculations based on what *might* happen if purgeable blocks are purged. In fact they hardly ever are. This bug seems to be triggered by the exact environment created by the "About the Finder" window on a MacII in 8-bit color. -Phil Goldman Apple Computer
gandreas@umn-d-ub.D.UMN.EDU (Glenn Andreas) (07/11/88)
In article <2880@utastro.UUCP> werner@utastro.UUCP (Werner Uhrig) writes: > > [ Follow-ups to this article will go to comp.sys.mac ONLY, by default ] > >so I spend Sunday afternoon polishing my Mac-interface; I try to set things >up so that when the Mac boots, it gives me a choice to either run Finder >or MultiFinder in the "most convenient way" .... > [ scads deleted ] >Now, let's see, how does MultiFinder know what applications to bring up??!! >.... hmmm.... it wouldn't be using the file >"Finder Startup" now, or would it? that wouldn't be right ...... Now, the following tricks have only been tested with system 5.0, but they should work for 6.0 as well. Yes, Multifinder does use the Finder Startup file. [ more deleted ] > and making multiple >sets for different purposes would be so much easier too ... oh, do I hope >there is an easier way .... Well, if, from UniFinder, you do as Set Startup or from Multifinder say Using current applications and DA's, the file "Finder Startup" is made with all that information. Now, rename the file to something like Word/Excel Set, or whatever is appropriate. Now, the next time you want to use this set, from the UniFinder, select Multifinder FIRST, then the set (shift clicking) then command-option click Multifinder. Away it goes, starting those things up. If I remember correctly, if Multifinder is already running, double clicking on the set will also load it in. I'm not sure what will happen if you already have applications loaded, but I'm assuming it would work as expected. Now you can have all the conveinence of application sets. The only thing I haven't been able to figure out is how to specify a combination of documents and da's. (Document start ups can only be specified in UniFinder, da's are specified in Multifinder). By the way, all of this information is stored in a resource in the Finder Startup file, but beyond seeing the file names there, as well as memory sizes (if I remember correctly) there was a whole load of other numbers/ garbage, with no clue to what they mean. Anybody know the format of these resources? =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= = "Oh No!! A Bimbo With A Gun!!!" | - gandreas@ub.d.umn.edu - = = --- Assault of the Killer Bimbos | Glenn Andreas = =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
singer@endor.harvard.edu (Rich Siegel) (07/14/88)
In article <2880@utastro.UUCP> werner@utastro.UUCP (Werner Uhrig) writes: >so I spend Sunday afternoon polishing my Mac-interface; I try to set things >up so that when the Mac boots, it gives me a choice to either run Finder >or MultiFinder in the "most convenient way" .... > >I try to use "ToMultiFinder-1.1" as StartUp-application..... Let me comment, since I wrote ToMultiFinder. First, it's not part of the Apple system distribution; it's an independently written shareware program. >... uh, wait, if it is not in the "blessed folder", it can't find Finder >and MultiFinder (at least, I could not get it to do it by specifying a >path; could be my fault) Read the documentation that's supplied with ToMultiFinder. It explicitly says that ToMultiFinder needs to be in the system folder. >Anyway, I put "ToMultiFinder-1.1" in my "blessed folder" and try to make it >the StartUp-application again .... > >.... can't do that! the name of the Application is "too long" (I am told)!! Mine is called "ToMultiFinder", which seems to be just fine >well, shorten the name to "ToMF" - now it's acceptable! (I wonder what would >happen if I had buried my blessed folder deeper in the folder-hierarchy. Nothing. The name length limit is a constant, and is not dependent on how deep the startup program is. Again, RTFM. Select the applications you want to startup, and Set Startup to them with "MultiFinder" being the selected startup shell. The system will then put a "Finder Startup" document in the System Folder. Then, Set Startup to ToMultiFinder with "Finder" as the selected startup shell. Then reboot. Rich Siegel THINK Technologies