[comp.sys.mac] 72 vs. 95 dpi large screens

jg@eagle.ukc.ac.uk (J.Grant) (07/12/88)

	Some large Mac screen displays run at 95 dpi compared
to the more normal Mac 72 dpi.  Since this will make the text
appear 7/9 of its normal size, I am concerned about the
legibility (size distortion is probably of little concern
here).

	Does anyone have any experience of the altered pixel
size on the Mac ?


Ps.  I know that other machines use 95 dpi as standard, but
I am (at this time) solely concerned about Macintosh usage.

chari@killer.UUCP (Chris Whatley) (07/15/88)

In article <5349@eagle.ukc.ac.uk>, jg@eagle.ukc.ac.uk (J.Grant) writes:
> 
> 	Some large Mac screen displays run at 95 dpi compared
> to the more normal Mac 72 dpi.  Since this will make the text
> appear 7/9 of its normal size, I am concerned about the
> legibility (size distortion is probably of little concern
> here).i

>[stuff deleted]

95 dpi on a Mac absolutely stinks. I was considering the Sony 16" monitor for
my Mac II in winter and for a few moments thought how great it would be to
have such tiny pixels and clear text. Then, I sat down and used it for awhile
and found that most Mac software like terminal emulators and HyperCard! were an
incredible strain on my eyes because everything was so damn small.

Basically the text looked great ( I think that the sony's are beyond comparison
with any color monitors around ) if it was bigger than 12 pt. Anything smaller
is terrible. I opted for the 19" Sony and I am still giddy about its quality
and veiwing space.

I suppose that you could get the 95DPI monitor and a pair of hi-magnification
glasses and do just fine but, I'd stick with the 72 dpi monitor until
QuickDraw becomes device/resolution independent (System 7.0 maybe?).

Chris

-- 
___________________________________________________________
"Henry, have you and Mary had sexual intercourse?"  -Mrs. X
chari@killer.UUCP
CI$:71370,1654

chow@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Christopher Chow) (07/15/88)

In article <5349@eagle.ukc.ac.uk> jg@ukc.ac.uk (J.Grant) writes:
|
|	Some large Mac screen displays run at 95 dpi compared to the more 
| normal Mac 72 dpi.  Since this will make the text appear 7/9 of its normal
| size, I am concerned about the legibility (size distortion is probably of 
| little concern here).
|
|	Does anyone have any experience of the altered pixel size on the Mac ?

The computer store I used to work at had, at one time, a Macintosh II
connected to three monitors: a standard Apple 13" color w/ 4-bits color, a
SuperMac 19" Trinitron with 8 bit color, and a SuperMac 16" Trinitron with 8
bit color.

Both the Apple and the SuperMac 19" were at approximately 72 dpi, while the
SuperMac 16" was somewhere in the 90 dpi range.  From my experiences on that
machine, you do not want to even consider using any Mac screen with
resolutions near 90 dpi!  The higher resolution creates considerable eye
strain, and fonts which normally look good (like the Geneva used in the
Finder) looks really squished.  Overall, graphics also suffer.  Remember that
little things which look nice (like the horizontal lines on an active
window's title bar) become smaller and denser.

Christopher Chow
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kaufman@polya.Stanford.EDU (Marc T. Kaufman) (07/15/88)

I think the attempt to make a physical ruler match a screen ruler, while
laudable in theory, is not good (for me, at least) in practice.  I don't like
putting my nose as close to a CRT as I do to a piece of paper. [In particular,
paper doesn't usually 'crackle' at me when my nose gets too close].  I am
using a 19" monitor with default (640 x 480) resolution.  It is only 50 dpi,
but I can sit back a comfortable distance and read the text.  I expect that
my preference is shared by many individuals over the age of 40.

Marc Kaufman (kaufman@polya.stanford.edu)

Fabian@cup.portal.com (07/16/88)

Greetings,

SuperMac Technology sells two monitors types for the Mac II, four 19" monitors
with a resolution of 1024 x 768 @ 72/73 dpi and one 16" monitor with a
resolution of 1024 x 768 @ 89 dpi.  Most people prefer the 19" monitors because
of the WYSIWYG display of 72/73 dpi, but there are some who like the 16"
Trinitron because it doesn't take up as much real estate as the 19" Trinitron
does.  Of the five monitors (19" Trinitron, 19" Ikegami Color, 19" Ikegami Grey
Scale, 19" Ikegami Monochorme, and 16" Trinitron), only the 19" Ikegami
Monochrome monitor doesn't use the Spectrum/8 video card, instead it uses the
SuperView II video card.  All of the others (color and grey scale) use the
Spectrum/8 video card.

Usually, it comes down to a personal prefence.  If you are used to the regular
9" Mac Plus/SE screen, then consider a monitor which is 72/73 dpi.  However,
depending upon your needs (ie display two pages side by side in actual size), a
19" monitor at 72/73 dpi cannot do this...at actual size.  Radius for example
sells a 19" monitor that allows you to display two pages, but it image isn't
72/73 dpi...technically it is still WYSIWYG, but it isn't 72/73 dpi.

My personal recommendation would be to go to your dealer and/or trade show and
take a look at the monitor(s) you're considering and make an informed decision.
Plus it wouldn't hurt to give the Spectrum/8-19" Trinitron consideration.

Fabian Ramirez
SuperMac Technology

fabian@cup.portal.com
sun!cup.portal.com!fabian

dorner@uxg.cso.uiuc.edu (07/18/88)

>	Does anyone have any experience of the altered pixel
>size on the Mac ?

I've been using a 90dpi screen for six months.  It's marginally less
legible than 72dpi, but really does fit more stuff on the screen.  If
I had the option to run at 72dpi, I'm not sure what I'd do; it would
probably depend on the application.
----
Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office
Internet: dorner@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu  UUCP: {convex,uunet}!uiucuxc!dorner
IfUMust:  (217) 333-3339

cordy@qucis.UUCP (Jim Cordy) (07/20/88)

I am a user of the Radius two page display (90 dpi, 63 Hz refresh),
but I'm far sighted, so I'm also concerned with font sizes and readability.
I found it necessary to hack my Finder and terminal emulators to give
me a larger font to avoid going blind.  

The good news is that this is relatively straightforward if you know how 
to use ResEdit - just change the fonts in the application to the fonts 
you want.  I use 10 pt instead of 9 pt in the Finder, 14 pt Courier instead
of 9 pt Monaco in MacTerminal, and 14 pt Courier instead of smaller Mishawaka
fonts in Unix Windows.

For text processing, I suggest using WriteNow, since it allows you to 
edit on the screen in 12 pt but print the result in 10 pt without any
distortion of either the page or the rulers.  You can even use somthing
larger than 12 if you prefer.

Anyway, there's one way to take advantage of large dense screens even if
you are half blind like me.

Jim

cordy@qucis.bitnet	cordy%qucis.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu

lad@eplrx7.UUCP (lad) (07/21/88)

From article <112@qusunitf.UUCP>, by cordy@qucis.UUCP (Jim Cordy):
> I am a user of the Radius two page display (90 dpi, 63 Hz refresh),
> but I'm far sighted, so I'm also concerned with font sizes and readability.
> I found it necessary to hack my Finder and terminal emulators to give
> me a larger font to avoid going blind.  


This is pretty common statement from users of >80 dpi screens,  not just
from farsighted persons.  I have a Mirage I screen and I find the 72 dpi
very pleasing,  along with the paper-white phospher.  I looked at a
SuperMac screen and a Sigma and both were very hard to read.  I have only
seen a Radius 90dpi screen once,  and that was enough.  It was almost
impossible to use MacWrite without squinting.


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pdj@nbires.nbi.com (Paul Jensen) (07/26/88)

This discussion of screen resolution seems pretty bizarre at times, with high 
resolution screens getting the reputation of being terrible to look at.

I was developing a screen font for 6 point Helvetica on my usual non-Mac screen
which has a resolution of 120 dots per inch, when a colleague observed:

	"That's not Helvetica! See, look at the serifs on the lower case 'p'!"

Indeed, they were right - I had cloned a Times Roman face in hopes no one
would notice.  The charade was visible even at 5 points.

So how come I can easily read a 6 point font on my 120 dpi screen,
while the Mac 6 point font looks almost unusable on the same screen?

Well, the Mac treats _all_ screens as if they were 72 dpi - ie, one pixel
per point - so 6 points becomes 6/120'th of an inch on a 120 dpi screen 
rather than 6/72'nd of an inch.  That's a character cell 6 pixels high 
when it should be 10 pixels high.  

Or, said in other terms, the 6 point cell is displayed as an apparent
6/120 * 72 = 3.6 point cell.  Now that's tiny, even on a 300 dpi LaserWriter.*

Well, actually, I fibbed a bit since my usual system tries to present a screen 
which is about 11% larger than real life, and the actual screen resolution is 
actually 108 dpi.  Thus it treats the screen as if it were 120 dpi.

Resolution independence will eventually have to be part of QuickDraw's
definition to support outline fonts that can be scaled for the printer.
Maybe the screen representations will even encorporate a user controlled
aspect ratio.  Or perhaps Display PostScript will replace QuickDraw. 
________
* Curiously, a 4.32 point character can be sometimes be strikingly more legible
than a 4 point or even 5 point character on the LaserWriter.  Hint: think about 
the impact of 'units' - 1/18'th of a point.  Courtesy of Dick Dunn.