stevens@sigi.Colorado.EDU (Curt Stevens) (05/12/88)
I have been a Word user for some time nd I have been playing with a friends copy of Fullwrite to see if I want to switch. The comments on the net lately have been very helpful, but I have noticed a problem? which hasn't been mentioned. Perhaps it is not a problem at all. Here is the situation. I want to write a paper which has a heading and abstract in single column format and then switches to 2 column format directly beneath that on the first page. It seems that the "column" option in Fullwrite applies to the entire chapter. So I guess I need to know how to either stop new chapters from generating page breaks, or specify column instructions which apply to only part of the chapter. I'm hoping that I don't have to use sidebars or heraders or something like that because it seems counter-intuitive to have this stuff "special" to me. No, I don't have the documentation. I've just been playing with a copy thats on a local machine in order to decide if it's worth the switch. The first thing I tried was this paper (I actually imported it) and I was dissapointed in my inability to easily do this. Am I missing something or are sidebars/headers the only solution to this? Thanks much in advance. Respond by e-mail if you like. =============================================================================== |Curt Stevens (303)492-1218 | / | E-MAIL: | |University of Colorado at Boulder | o o | ------- | |Computer Science Department | | |arpa: stevens@boulder.colorado.edu| |Campus Box 430 | \_/ |csnet: stevens@boulder.csnet| |Boulder, Colorado 80309 | |uucp:{ncar|nbires}!boulder!stevens| =============================================================================== -- ======== | Curt | ========
chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (05/13/88)
>hasn't been mentioned. Perhaps it is not a problem at all. Here is the >situation. I want to write a paper which has a heading and abstract in >single column format and then switches to 2 column format directly >beneath that on the first page. It seems that the "column" option in >Fullwrite applies to the entire chapter. If you want to mix number of columns on a single page, you have to use sidebars. Once you start thinking in terms of sidebars, it's not non-intuitive at all. Don't try to shove Fullwrite into a Word-oriented paradigm, or you'll be in trouble. Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ Robert A. Heinlein: 1907-1988. He will never truly die as long as we read his words and speak his name. Rest in Peace.
dorourke@polyslo.UUCP (David M. O'Rourke) (05/13/88)
In article <6022@sigi.Colorado.EDU> stevens@sigi.Colorado.EDU (Curt Stevens) writes: >situation. I want to write a paper which has a heading and abstract in >single column format and then switches to 2 column format directly >beneath that on the first page. It seems that the "column" option in >Fullwrite applies to the entire chapter. So I guess I need to know how to >either stop new chapters from generating page breaks, or specify column >instructions which apply to only part of the chapter. I'm hoping that I >don't have to use sidebars or heraders or something like that because it >seems counter-intuitive to have this stuff "special" to me. You will have to use a sidebar or start a new chapter. Learn to use sidebars they aren't that bad. You'll catch on right after setting about 2 up. Then they become very easy. Try it you'll like it! David M. O'Rourke +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | dorourke@polyslo | Disclaimer: All opinions in this message are mine, but | | | if you like them they can be yours too. | | | Besides I'm just a student so what do I | | | know! | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | When you have to place a disclaimer in your mail you know it's a sign | | that there are TOO many Lawyer's. | +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
anson@spray.CalComp.COM (Ed Anson) (05/13/88)
In article <53074@sun.uucp> chuq@sun.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: >If you want to mix number of columns on a single page, you have to use >sidebars. Once you start thinking in terms of sidebars, it's not >non-intuitive at all. This is about the zillionth reference to sidebars on the net. Perhaps I blinked, but I haven't seen any description of what sidebars are about. I get a vague impression from the various postings, but it seems that such an important concept deserves a better description for those of us who haven't really seen FullWrite yet. As a user of Word 3.0, I'm still considering whether to make the switch. I am following all the postings, and have mixed feelings. FullWrite appears to have a number of features I'd like to use if I had them. On the other hand, it appears to lack some features I use every day in Word. I guess it's more intuitive than Word, but then I've finally learned Word while FullWrite was trying to get finished. For now, I think I'll stick with Word, and wait for FullWrite to get really finished. (I'm looking forward to it!) -- ===================================================================== Ed Anson, Calcomp Display Products Division, Hudson NH 03051 (603) 885-8712, anson@elrond.CalComp.COM
stevens@sigi.Colorado.EDU (Curt Stevens) (05/13/88)
In article <2551@polyslo.UUCP> dorourke@polyslo.UUCP (David O'Rourke) writes: >In article <6022@sigi.Colorado.EDU> stevens@sigi.Colorado.EDU (Curt Stevens) writes: >>situation. I want to write a paper which has a heading and abstract in >>single column format and then switches to 2 column format directly >>beneath that on the first page. It seems that the "column" option in >>Fullwrite applies to the entire chapter. So I guess I need to know how to >>either stop new chapters from generating page breaks, or specify column >>instructions which apply to only part of the chapter. I'm hoping that I >>don't have to use sidebars or heraders or something like that because it >>seems counter-intuitive to have this stuff "special" to me. > > You will have to use a sidebar or start a new chapter. Learn to use sidebars Well, now I see the real problem with using sidebars for this. The problem is that this paper has a lot of authors and we commonly but a footnote on the first page to indicate that the authors are listed alphabetically. Unfortunately, footnotes in sidebars appear at the end of the sidebar, not at the end of the page which contains it. This might be logical for newsletters with true sidebars, but is not the way I want a conference submission to look. Any more suggestions, or should I wait for Word 4.0 :->......... =============================================================================== |Curt Stevens (303)492-1218 | / | E-MAIL: | |University of Colorado at Boulder | o o | ------- | |Computer Science Department | | |arpa: stevens@boulder.colorado.edu| |Campus Box 430 | \_/ |csnet: stevens@boulder.csnet| |Boulder, Colorado 80309 | |uucp:{ncar|nbires}!boulder!stevens| =============================================================================== -- ======== | Curt | ========
chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (05/15/88)
>This is about the zillionth reference to sidebars on the net. Perhaps I >blinked, but I haven't seen any description of what sidebars are about. >I get a vague impression from the various postings, but it seems that such >an important concept deserves a better description for those of us who >haven't really seen FullWrite yet. I'm sorry. They're intuitively obvious to me, but I grew up in a family that published a newspaper.... A sidebar is a piece of related but independent text that is attached to an article. If you look at any magazine, you'll see instances of this. For instance, in the article I wrote on Timesharing services for Macintosh Horizons, there was a short sidebar in which Mike Banks took a semi-fictional look at the future of timesharing services. Not part of the article, but something that gave it more depth. In many cases, these are separated from the main text by being boxed, by the use of spot color, or by some other form. FullWrite has taken this concept and generalized it. At any point in a document, you can create a sidebar. This sidebar can be attached to a given piece of text or a specific spot on the page. You can put something in the sidebar, text, graphics, whatever. This allows you to put together very complicated and flexible documents, once you get the hang of it. It's a really, really neat feature. >On the other >hand, it appears to lack some features I use every day in Word. Like what? I've found two: functionality is lacking in styles (especially "Based on" styles; and paragraph formatting and text leading is primitive. Neither of these are major problems. You can get around them fairly easily. Also, it's slower than Word 3.0. Enough to be noticable, not enough to make me think twice about switching. If there's something else you think is missing, let me know. There's probably a reasonable way to do the same thing. Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ Robert A. Heinlein: 1907-1988. He will never truly die as long as we read his words and speak his name. Rest in Peace.
avalon@ssyx (Scott A. McIntyre) (05/15/88)
+-In article <2279@spray.CalComp.COM>, anson@spray.UUCP (Ed Anson) wrote:- +---------- |This is about the zillionth reference to sidebars on the net. Perhaps I |blinked, but I haven't seen any description of what sidebars are about. |I get a vague impression from the various postings, but it seems that such |an important concept deserves a better description for those of us who |haven't really seen FullWrite yet. +---------- Ok, I'll do my best to describe what I feel the purpose and function of side- bars is. Sidebars are about 3/16 to 1/4 of an inch wide "bars" on the left side of your document, column, or columns. In Sidebars, various icon's appear signifying various aspects of the document. For example, say you insert a footnote after the 1/4 that I wrote up above, on the left side of the document where the sidebar resides an icon would appear, about the same line where the 1/4 is and the icon would be a square with a line on the bottom. I could then go ahead and enter my footnote reference, etc. Then say at a later point I wanted to change something in that footnote. Instead of hunting it down in the document, I can double click on the icon in the sidebar, which would open up my footnote, and viola! I can change it. Other uses include FWP's option of "Posted Notes" which are a computer version of 3M's Post-it Note. You know, those little yellow things that have hit xerox copies all over the planet...anyway, you can insert a posted note at some point in the document, and leave a message for the next person who may read the document and make changes. Posted note's don't print out, so you can type whatever you want in them. To find out what a posted note says, go to the sidebar, and double click on it's icon. Oh yes, if you insert certain things that use sidebars for icons, the sidebar can expand to the left of your document, and to get to the icon then, you just double click on the elipse (...) that appears in the sidebar. That is about it! In essence, they are used to display icon's, change-bars, postednotes, and other things you can insert in your document, or have displayed. Hope this helps! Scott -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- avalon@ssyx.ucsc.edu ARPA/Internet \ or > Me! avalon@ucsck.BITNET Bitnet / "Hey, when you can't trust your basic Pulse Rifle when hunting down a Xenomorph, what's the Universe coming to?" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (05/15/88)
>Ok, I'll do my best to describe what I feel the purpose and function of side- >bars is. Sidebars are about 3/16 to 1/4 of an inch wide "bars" on the left >side of your document, column, or columns. In Sidebars, various icon's appear >signifying various aspects of the document. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!! You're describing the icon bar (see page 1-3 of the Reference Guide). I've already described sidebars and the FWP implementation in a previous message. I won't bore you with another description. But this is wrong, wrong, wrong! The icon bar is where the icons for the various sidebars (and other FWP objects) live, but it has nothing to do WITH sidebars. Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ Robert A. Heinlein: 1907-1988. He will never truly die as long as we read his words and speak his name. Rest in Peace.
dorourke@polyslo.UUCP (David M. O'Rourke) (05/15/88)
In article <2279@spray.CalComp.COM> anson@spray.UUCP (Ed Anson) writes: >This is about the zillionth reference to sidebars on the net. Perhaps I >blinked, but I haven't seen any description of what sidebars are about. >I get a vague impression from the various postings, but it seems that such >an important concept deserves a better description for those of us who >haven't really seen FullWrite yet. Side Bars are litle blocks of text that are a "side" from the main body of the text _______________________________ | This is a sidebar to | | demonstrate the concept of | | a sidebar | |_____________________________| FullWrite does a much better job, but you might get the idea. It is a block of text, or graphics, or both, that can be placed in a varity of formats aside from the main body of the text. You can have the text then "wrap" around the sidebar either followin the contours of the text/graphic or wraping around the square that encloseing the sidebar. A neat feature is that side bars a mini-documents and follow their own formatting rules, and you can have sidebar's inside of sidebars, and so on, and so on. Very powerful concept, anyone who hasn't seen them can't realize how much you can do with them. But after you've used them you'll never go back. Hope this helps. David M. O'Rourke +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | dorourke@polyslo | Disclaimer: All opinions in this message are mine, but | | | if you like them they can be yours too. | | | Besides I'm just a student so what do I | | | know! | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | When you have to place a disclaimer in your mail you know it's a sign | | that there are TOO many Lawyer's. | +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
dorourke@polyslo.UUCP (David M. O'Rourke) (05/15/88)
In article <8805141834.AA23612@ssyx.ucsc.edu> avalon%ssyx.UCSC.EDU@ucscc.UCSC.EDU writes: >Ok, I'll do my best to describe what I feel the purpose and function of side- >bars is. Sidebars are about 3/16 to 1/4 of an inch wide "bars" on the left > {more text deleted, see original posting} I thinks you've confused sidebars, with IconBar. Icon bar is what you decscribed, quite nicely, and sidebar is a block of text place with in a document. David M. O'Rourke +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | dorourke@polyslo | Disclaimer: All opinions in this message are mine, but | | | if you like them they can be yours too. | | | Besides I'm just a student so what do I | | | know! | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | When you have to place a disclaimer in your mail you know it's a sign | | that there are TOO many Lawyer's. | +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
anson@spray.CalComp.COM (Ed Anson) (05/17/88)
In article <53272@sun.uucp> chuq@sun.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: [a rather nice description of sidebars omitted] >>On the other >>hand, it appears to lack some features I use every day in Word. > >Like what? I've found two: functionality is lacking in styles (especially >"Based on" styles; and paragraph formatting and text leading is primitive. Exactly! I use these things more than anything else, almost. Especially the "Based on" styles. I really need these, because I use a lot of related styles and change them as I experiment to format a document. So I can just change the base style and all the others follow. Losing that would really hurt my productivity. > >Neither of these are major problems. You can get around them fairly easily. Tell me how, and I'm a likely convert. Now that I know what they're about, sidebars sound like the one major thing I miss in Word. But they're not as important to me as the power of styles. Perhaps FullWrite will correct these few (but critical, to me) shortcomings in the next release. I may have to wait. :-( -- ===================================================================== Ed Anson, Calcomp Display Products Division, Hudson NH 03051 (603) 885-8712, anson@elrond.CalComp.COM
chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (05/18/88)
>>Like what? I've found two: functionality is lacking in styles (especially >>"Based on" styles; and paragraph formatting and text leading is primitive. > > Exactly! I use these things more than anything else, almost. Especially > the "Based on" styles. I really need these, because I use a lot of > related styles and change them as I experiment to format a document. So > I can just change the base style and all the others follow. Losing that > would really hurt my productivity. "Need?" I considered the lack of "Based on" to be a major problem with ReadySetGo4 style sheets. I consider it to be a major problem with FullWrite style sheets (to be honest, I'm still not completely comfortable using them at all, but that's primarily due to lack of getting used to them...). But I'd never consider giving up either program just for this. It's not something that's a killer. Sure, you could speed up your productivity, but by how much? I use a large number of Style Sheets -- in OtherRealms, for instance, I use somewhere around 20. But I doubt I can even document an hour or two per issue (an issue of OtherRealms takinga bout six weeks to lay out and publish) of productiviy because of it. I don't think it's a "real" loss of productivity as much as a perceived loss -- it's more a hassle to go in and modify those 10 styles than it is a time waster. Psychologically it's important, but not productivity-wise. And to think of giving up all the other features just because one is missing? Have you ever sat down and looked at how often you really go in and tweak a collected sets of styles via a "based on" style? And how much more time it takes to go and modify all the styles individually? I think if you do, you'll find that you're very aware of the uglyness of having to do it manually, but that there's not a lot of time involved. It's hassle factor. Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ Robert A. Heinlein: 1907-1988. He will never truly die as long as we read his words and speak his name. Rest in Peace.
pollock@usfvax2.EDU (Wayne Pollock) (05/26/88)
I would like to evaluate fwp, but no local store carries it yet (Tampa,
Florida). Is there an evaluation version of fwp? If not, can I send $5
someplace and receive a manual?
Wayne Pollock (The MAD Scientist) pollock@usfvax2.usf.edu
Usenet: ...!{ihnp4, cbatt}!codas!usfvax2!pollock
GEnie: W.POLLOCK) (07/26/88)
Hi, I don't want to start the FullWrite flame wars again, so let's keep it down, please :-), but I do have a couple of questions. This weekend, I finally got around to playing with the *demo* version semi-seriously. Impressive! I want it! Unfortunately, I found that a one column, page-and-a-half document (about 12K), with 5 sidebars of drop caps, made the response time unlivable. I have an SE with 2.5 MB, and am running System 6.0 Uni-Finder. Clicking the mouse pointer engendered a SEVERAL SECOND wait before the insertion point appeared!! Double clicking, to select a word, also took about 2 seconds. Other actions, like finding and replacing, were also interminably slow! Now, this is not a big document, and obviously, I had plaenty of free memory, so I'm at a loss to explain this. Does anyone actually use the real version for serious stuff on an SE, and is it usable? I really want FW, but there is a difference between being slow and being unusable! (Sadly, I haven't been able to find a dealer around here (Eastern Mass.) that will put the program up for me, so I can't try the real thing!) Assuming the release version is usable, can anyone tell me how to make it do a hanging indent paragraph (like this one)? Finally, how good (or bad) are the spell checker and thesaurus, and how well integrated are they? Thanks much... Rich
chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (07/26/88)
> This weekend, I finally got around to playing with the *demo* version >semi-seriously. Any similarity between the demo program and the final release by Ashton-Tate is coincidental. There are LOTS of differences and performance differences. > Impressive! I want it! Unfortunately, I found that a one >column, page-and-a-half document (about 12K), with 5 sidebars of drop caps, >made the response time unlivable. It's not perfect, but a lot better under the real release. I'm running on a 1Meg partition under multifinder, too. The next release (currently scheduled for fall, in theory) is supposed to deal primarily with performance issues. >Does anyone actually >use the real version for serious stuff on an SE, and is it usable? I really >want FW, but there is a difference between being slow and being unusable! Since FullWrite came out, I've used Microsoft word, literally, three times. I wouldn't go back. Whatever you do, don't judge the released version of Fullwrite from the demo. They're very different programs. >Assuming the release version is usable, can anyone tell me how to make > it do a hanging indent paragraph (like this one)? Bring up a ruler, slide the margin limit to the right, then slide the first line limit (the lower half of the margin limit) back to the left. > Finally, how good (or bad) are the spell checker and thesaurus, and how >well integrated are they? I much prefer the FWP spellchecker to the Word one. I don't use the thesaurus much, but when I do, it seems to work well. -- Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ I don't work for no 'Toon!