simon@alberta.UUCP (Simon Tortike) (08/30/88)
Thanks to all those who answered my query about back-up and archive devices
for use with the Mac. We have decided to be conservative and go for an
Apple tape SCSI unit because it is relatively cheap and can be serviced here
(a big plus). We have bought DiskFit 1.4. It does not archive files though,
only backs-up, i.e. recreates, the current volume on the disk. If one wants
version (25) of file xyz, backed up last month, I guess one can't have it.
I am investigating other software specifically for an archive of files. I have
heard that Redux is quite versatile.
We aren't quite ready for the leading-edge stuff. Next year, who knows. We
can't afford to be trail blazers, figuratively and financially. Thanks to
Arlen Bartsh of the Optical Products Division of Corel Systems Corp., Ottawa,
Ontario, Canada (tel. 613/728-8200) for sending info. on the 200 & 400 Mbyte
WORM drives and software for the Macintosh. Thanks to Jon Parmet of Blackhole
Technology, Inc., Winchester, MA (tel. 617/721-7690) for telephoning and sending
info. on 0.5-inch 9-track tape units and 8-mm cartridge tape systems. The latter
is a DAT format, I believe, holding up to 2 Gbytes of data. BTI also market
the Laserdrive Model 820 WORM drives (800 Mbyte disks).
There seem to be some very strong opinions about the reliability of removable
hard disk cartridges, with references to media flaking, crashing, and other
unpleasant happenings. I am sure the market will mature and this will
eventually be a widespread product with a good reputation, if it isn't already.
However, there is little experience up here with the medium, and we must remain
conservative consumers.
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Responses from Usenet community:
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 88 15:52:25 PDT
From: pnet06.cts.com!bhall (Brian Hall)
To: alberta!simon
Subject: Re: Tape backups for Mac OS.
Status: RO
Get one of the 45MB removeable hard disks; they retail for $1795, the disks
are about $125 each. (That's $1795 with one disk.) They're fast (25ms),
rugged, reliable, etc. Right now, my vote is for the Peripheral Land drive.
Other vendors: Mass Micro, DPI, Custom Memory Systems. I believe there's
one more....
Brian
-----
To: alberta!simon
Subject: Re: Tape backups for Mac OS.
Lines: 19
Date: Mon Aug 15 20:02:28 1988
Message-Id: <8808152002.2.155@cup.portal.com>
X-Origin: The Portal System (TM)
X-Possible-Reply-Path: Fabian@cup.portal.com
X-Possible-Reply-Path: sun!portal!cup.portal.com!Fabian
Status: RO
Simon,
SuperMac sells two 3M DC2000 tape units: DataStream, a stand-alone 40 Mb tape
drive and the XP60+40, a combination 60 Mb HD with a 40 Mb tape drive. With
each, SuperMac provides the "DataFrame-specific" version of DiskFit.
The Commercial version of DiskFit will work with any 3M DC2000 tape drive, such
as the Apple Tape Backup 40SC and GCC Technologies' HyperTape.
Other tape units that are available are the Teac units from CMS, Tecmar's
DC2000 unit, the new DC600-based 150 Mb or 300 Mb and the 2 gigabyte 8mm tape
units.
Fabian Ramirez
SuperMac Technology
-----
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 88 15:07:52 PDT
From: wetter%tybalt.caltech.edu@Hamlet.Bitnet (Pierce T. Wetter)
Message-Id: <8808252207.AA01746@tybalt.caltech.edu>
To: stortike@ualtavm.BITNET
Subject: tapes
I just got my jasmine tape backup up today, its nice, its fast, it
can read apple tapes, its 1199 from jasmine at 1-800-direc2u.
Pierce
----
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 88 08:37:42 EDT
From: ubc-cs!uunet!dartmouth.edu!eleazar!boomer (Rich Akerboom)
Message-Id: <8808251237.AA21071@eleazar.dartmouth.edu>
To: alberta!simon
Subject: Re: Tape backups for Mac OS.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.mac.programmer
In-Reply-To: <1523@pembina.UUCP>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
Status: R
We here at Social Science Computing, Dartmouth College recently purchased
a Tecmar QT-Mac40 tape backup unit and are quite satisfied with it.
One of our purchasing specs was that the device be compatible with the
apple unit in case software or data was shipped on apple compatible tapes.
from the research i did, this is clearly the best device if you require
apple compatibility. if not, you can get larger capacity drives that are
faster, but this is still worth looking into. Note that jasmine markets
the tecmar drive and software ("direct tape" if i am not mistaken) at
a lower list price.
some details:
price: $1099 thru a dealer-same as list for jasmine version.
modes: 2:1 apple compatible interleave (speed ~1 meg/min)
1:1 tecmar format (speed ~2 meg/min).
capacity: 38.5 meg/cartridge
external switch for setting scsi address
with the tecmar software (QT-Backup)
can return to finder while tape is formatting (takes 30 min to format)
image, all files, incremental, selected files backups and restores
power tagging feature to ease choosing selected files for backup.
it has restored data correctly for us (we have had other units where this
was not the case)
program is easy to run-gives you a choice of 4 icons (backup, restore, utilities
and preferences, i think). each of these has 3 or 4 things
to choose within them.
data from any hard disk (any interleave) goes directly on tecmar in either
mode. can mix backups (not image) from hard disks with different
interleaves on same tape. this is ostensibly not true of the
micah unit.
cabling for this unit is a bit odd as it only has 1 25 pin connector.
25-25 cable is fine if this is the only external scsi peripheral, but
a 't' cable is necessary to cut in the middle of a daisy chain. t cable
has 2 50 pin connectors with a 25 pin pigtail hanging off the side.
get more details from tecmar.
software requires system 4.1 i think and a mac plus. latest beta version
worked on a 512ke with a 3rd party scsi board (dataport from supermac, i
believe).
if you have any further questions, please let me know. this is all
that comes to mind at the moment.
rich akerboom internet: boomer@eleazar.dartmouth.edu
---- **************************
Here are the responses from a campus BBS:
5622/1. George Carmichael 09:00 Fri Aug 12/88 20 lines
* Response from Confer 341:1 MAC:CONFER
My Mirror Technologies 40/40 is a 40 MB hard disk with 40 MB
tape backup attached to it. It uses the 3M DC 2000 mini data
cartridge 1/4 inch tape, 40 meg per tape (@ $35 each). A
complete "preserve" operation takes about a minute per meg, plus
about 15 minutes to format the mag tape once.
The software gives you all that you ask for.
... Now for the bad news ... Since last June, this unit has
been out of commission TWICE. Both times, the hard disk would
not start spinning when I turned on the machine.
And since there is no local dealer (it was bought directly from
the states (@ $3300 US) - Minnesota - I had to pack it up and
ship it back to the company. The turn-around time was about 6
weeks the first time, and I'm waiting for the return of my unit
again, after three weeks so far. The turn-around time seems to
be more likely based on the Customs Office. The paperwork from
Mirror shows that they only hold the machine for a couple of days
to repair and send out.
Try to find a local supplier - maybe the Apple tape drive?
5622/2. John R. Manuel 11:00 Fri Aug 12/88 13 lines
* Response from Confer 341:2 MAC:CONFER
I can't say much about the hardware you'd need for your backups
(I still use 3.5" disks to backup my 20 Meg drive), but I am
quite satisfied with the backup program DISKFIT. I've only used
it for full backups of my disk, but it does those quite sensibly:
it only backups(?) those files that have been changed since the
last backup. As a result, it is pretty fast once you've made
your initial backup and makes efficient use of your backup medium
(especially important when one uses disks). Its manual has a
few sections on using it with tape drives and it writes a
hierarchically organized listing of the files on the backup tape.
If you like more specific answers, I'll haul out my manual.
5622/3. Simon Tortike 10:43 Sat Aug 13/88 6 lines
Since I posted this note, I have had a number of suggestios
that I should see about hard-disk cartridges: the type
that come in 10 to 45 Mbyte cartridges, in conjunction with
a commercial backup facility like DiskFit. Has anyone
heard much about these, particularly brands to avoid or
to rave about?
5622/4. Dietrich Schultz 09:47 Mon Aug 15/88 13 lines
I've had some experience with the Apple Tape Backup and
I'm not very impressed. It, too, has been out of
commission (though only once) in the 6 months we've
had it. Backing up a HD to tape is painfully slow.
Maybe I have a low pain threshold, but 35-40 minutes
for 40Mb seems too long. Much better than floppies of
course. If you have anything larger than 40M the tape
unit gets even more awkward. For the price of a tape
unit, I think investing in a high capacity HD makes
a lot of sense. Keep it offline while not using it if
you're worried about damage. High capacity removable
HD cartridges seem good, too, although I haven't used
them.
5622/5. Simon Tortike 13:52 Mon Aug 15/88 3 lines
This information is useful. We shall probably end up
with a Bernoulli box 20Mbyte or larger cartridge. Has
anyone reading this any experience with them?
5622/6. Al Dunbar 08:42 Tue Aug 16/88 15 lines
One of our profs had a Bernoulli box of some sort, although it
was on a PC rather than a MAC. We were considering equipping a
new PC lab with these units instead of regular hard disks, to
help control access to software we needed for some of our
courses. After lots of problems with it, the local distributor
said something like: "Regardless of what the manufacturer says,
these things are not robust enough to be used day in day out."
Our conclusion was that it would make a good backup system, but
owing to the problems we had (and the per machine cost), we
opted against it for our lab.
Another prof had a bernoulli on an older MacIntosh, that he has
since traded to our electronics technician. I can't imagine our
tech taking over something that didn't work, so I'd guess that,
however it was being used, it performed satisfactorily.
5622/7. Peter Johnston 09:36 Tue Aug 16/88 30 lines
I've configured a couple of systems using an Apple
80 Meg HD, an Apple tape backup unit, and DiskFit.
The combination (both systems) has been dead reliable
for 4 months now, with only one problem tracable to
bad media. I echo the good comments made regarding
DiskFit, but should point out that their manual is less
than complete when it comes to describing use with
tapes. I've found that non-computer types (ie: users)
get pretty confused with it's structure and approach.
DiskFit also has a problem when you start having a large
number of files on the HD. Over approx 2600 files, when
using a 1 Meg machine, will cause a "critical memory
shortage" error with a truly wonderful dialogue box (I have
a copy in my office if anyone is interested). The solution
(direct from their tech support, who were very responsive
and helpful, incidently) is to turn off the RAM cache, turn
off the FastCopy option, and turn off all Reports. The first
two options slow down the backup process (full or incremental)
by approximately 10%. Reports are not needed when using a
tape backup because all the files are on the same tape (if you
are backing up 40 Meg or less) and files/folders on the tape are
accessible by the Finder (but it is SSLLOOWW...)
Making the alterations suggested has completely vanquished the
problem, with no really noticeable degradation in performance
overall. I'd rate the tape/DiskFit combination quite highly
overall, mainly because of it's reliability.
Contact me if you need any further info or details...
-------------------
Simon Tortike, Department of Mining, Metallurgical and Petroleum Engineering,
The University of Alberta, Edmonton, AB, CANADA T6G 2G6.
UUCP: alberta!simon | BITNET: stortike@ualtavm | AGT: +1 403/432-3338alexis@dasys1.UUCP (Alexis Rosen) (08/31/88)
In article <1563@pembina.UUCP> simon@alberta.UUCP (Simon Tortike) writes: > [lots of stuff about tape backup units] I am astonished that the only mention of TEAC units is by Fabian Ramirez of SuperMac (which makes a competing product). The Apple Tape Drive is a dog. Probably the worst piece of hardware Apple has ever released (except maybe the LCD screen :-). Part of that has to do with the software. The other half of it is that the cartridge drive (while possibly the wave of the future) is today a distinct second-best compared to TEAC cassette units. These drives are two to four times as fast as the 3Ms (four in Apple's case) and can store 50-150 MB of data. I recommend the CMS tape drive: 60 MB for $700 mail-order. It's top-quality all around, and the Nuvo Labs software that comes with it is excellent. Well, comparatively excellent. It's good no matter how you look at it- it offers multiple backup sets on one tape, multi-tape backups, saved file sets, image/file-by-file, and lots of little goodies. MicroNet sells an almost identical unit. It looks nicer, costs a little more. It's pretty much identical. The nice thing is they also have a 150 MB Teac for only a few hundred more. Good stuff. Aside from the very dubious merit of being Apple-compatible, can anyone give a good reason to get a 3M tape instead of a Teac? BTW, an unconfirmed rumor has it that the Apple tape is not long for this world and will be replaced soon. Anyone know anything about that? ---- Alexis Rosen {allegra,philabs,cmcl2}!phri\ Writing from {harpo,cmcl2}!cucard!dasys1!alexis The Big Electric Cat {portal,well,sun}!hoptoad/ Public UNIX if mail fails: ...cmcl2!cucard!cunixc!abr1 Best path: uunet!dasys1!alexis