kent@lloyd.camex.uucp (Kent Borg) (08/16/88)
A co-worker of mine is visiting China (leaves Thursday--I'm in a hurry) going through Hong Kong. He is willing to pick up a copy of Chinese Talk for me. What I need is information about exactly what he should get, the exact name of the system software in Hong Kong. I am interested in the mainland version of the software. ASCII bound as we are, the pin-yin version of the name would be useful. Any advice on where to buy it would be useful also, likewise estimated cost. Thank you for the help, Kent Borg H: (617) 776-6899 W: (617) 426-3577 kent@lloyd.uucp or hscfvax!lloyd!kent
han@Apple.COM (Byron Han, Architect) (08/23/88)
In article <139@lloyd.camex.uucp> kent@lloyd.camex.uucp (Kent Borg) writes: > >What I need is information about exactly what he should get, the exact >name of the system software in Hong Kong. I am interested in the >mainland version of the software. ASCII bound as we are, the pin-yin >version of the name would be useful. >Any advice on where to buy it would be useful also, likewise estimated >cost. > Most of the available script interface systems should be available through APDA. Hope this helps... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Byron Han, Licensed to Dream. I want my, I want my, I want my SIMMS Apple Computer, Inc. ------------------------------------- 20525 Mariani Ave, MS27Y domain: han@apple.COM Cupertino, CA 95014 UUCP:{sun,voder,nsc,decwrl}!apple!han -------------------------------------- GENIE: BYRONHAN ATTnet: 408-973-6450 Applelink: HAN1 CompuServe: 72167,1664 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
jordan@Apple.COM (Jordan Mattson) (08/24/88)
Dear Byron - At present, only KIS, Kanji Interface System, and AIS, Arabic Interface are available from APDA. We are working to make the others available from APDA, along with the latest versions of the above in about three months. Jordan Mattson UUCP: jordan@apple.apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. CSNET: jordan@apple.CSNET Tools & Languages Product Management 20525 Mariani Avenue, MS 27S Cupertino, CA 95014 408-973-4601 "Joy is the serious business of heaven." C.S. Lewis
mday@cgl.ucsf.edu (Mark Day) (08/24/88)
In article <16005@apple.Apple.COM> jordan@apple.com.UUCP (Jordan Mattson) writes: > At present, only KIS, Kanji Interface System, and AIS, Arabic Interface >are available from APDA. > We are working to make the others available from APDA, along with the >latest versions of the above in about three months. I might have missed the beginning of this thread, but I am also interested in the official Chinese system, with documentation. The local Apple Dealers that I have spoken to know nothing about this. Has anyone gotten a hold of the Chinese version, or does one have to travel to Hong Kong to get it? Thanks, ---------- Mark Day UUCP: ..ucbvax!ucsfcgl!mday ARPA: mday@cgl.ucsf.edu BITNET: mday@ucsfcgl.BITNET
jordan@Apple.COM (Jordan Mattson) (08/25/88)
Dear Mark - The latest version of the Chinese System is 5.0. The non-US Macintosh System Software is not at present distributed through the US dealer network. We are working to make all of the different versions of the Macintosh System Software available through APDA, and expect to have them all available within three months. If you want to obtain the latest version of any of the non-Roman Macintosh System Software (Kanji, Arabic, Hebrew, Mainland Chinese, Taiwan Chinese, etc.) you should contact Apple Software Licensing. Jordan Mattson UUCP: jordan@apple.apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. CSNET: jordan@apple.CSNET Tools & Languages Product Management 20525 Mariani Avenue, MS 27S Cupertino, CA 95014 408-973-4601 "Joy is the serious business of heaven." C.S. Lewis
Mike_G_Newman@cup.portal.com (08/25/88)
How come recent versions of the foreign language systems always seem to be available "elsewhere" before APDA offers them. I have version 2.0 of Kanjitalk which isn't listed in my latest APDA catalog. (For that matter, how come my APDA catalogs are always so late? :-) mike_g_newman@cup.portal.com (Mike G Newman)
freund@nada.kth.se (Peter Freund) (08/27/88)
Well this is not quite true. Apda has some of the Systems that use the script-
manager. (If there hasn't been a recent change. I know they have the Japanese
and the Turkish and the arabic system software but as far as I know thats all
The information they included in writing was also quite old. And there is a
new revision of the scriptmanager that is (supposedly documented but not
widely distributed and again as far as I know not through APDA. The only way
I know is to get it through the company that Apple Hong Kong suggests namely
Sun Business Machines Ltd. 8/F, Tsuen Wan Ind. Centre,
220-248 Texaco Road Tlx: 45628 FUJI HX Fax:
04996607 Contact: David Sun/Dennis Sun Tel: (852)04998168
They charge 100 HK$ and I know there was a version 1.1 in the making early
this spring (don't know if its ready yet please let me know 8-{)
mail me If you cant find it there may be other ways. Like Gilman office
machines in Hong Kong or similar ...
When are we going to see any *real* ScriptManagerrelying WordProcessor
If Apple wants to be International they should hire a few more programmers
to do the ultimate Monolitic ScriptMAnager System were you could add the
different National Resources to the systemfolder just like Inits and CDEV's
nad flip from Japanese to arabic to Mongol (yes top to bottom direction!!!)
and so on. Hope this happens soon and that effort is made to bring the
documentation up to date. As it is now I'm not sure if the national indepen-
dance that is practiced by APPLE is going to benefit them in the long run
without some more overreaching allencompassing enlightened grip of the inter-
national market! Hope that helped some too...
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone,
"it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor
less."
mrfung@nada.kth.se (Lars-Erik Fredriksson) PS. Will be back reading mail
late september! BTW there is 2 new sets of the Chinese standard including
more than 14000 new characters that will be released soon, is APPLE going
to include them as well in the systemsoftware ?
byesam@gtisqr.UUCP (Sam Felton) (09/02/88)
In article <11102@cgl.ucsf.EDU>, mday@cgl.ucsf.edu (Mark Day) writes: > In article <16005@apple.Apple.COM> jordan@apple.com.UUCP (Jordan Mattson) writes: > > At present, only KIS, Kanji Interface System, and AIS, Arabic Interface > >are available from APDA. ...stuff deleted... >...that I have spoken to know nothing about this. Has anyone gotten a hold > of the Chinese version, or does one have to travel to Hong Kong to get it? I want to get this info also. I have several friends from Taiwan and Hong Kong who would also like to know. Also, a question: If your software is Script Manager-compatible, will it run properly, with the native script in place of roman characters? I have looked into this a little but have no experience with the SM. Does anyone know how the characters are entered? I have seen a couple of machines that allow you to enter Hanzi; one was a PC-clone from the PRC called a "Great Wall" and it had radicals on the keys, with the next-char key taking the place of a <RETURN> key. This was neat but was still basically MS-DOS (yes, real DOS). The other machine, a Taiwanese box, was more WIMP-interface where you point at a horizontally-scrolling set of menu columns that had the radicals in them, and held down various keys as you un-clicked the mouse to determine where the radical was positioned in the character. I know that this is not comp.lang.chin (or whatever), so thanks for bearing with me. >Thanks, > ---------- > Mark Day > UUCP: ..ucbvax!ucsfcgl!mday > ARPA: mday@cgl.ucsf.edu > BITNET: mday@ucsfcgl.BITNET Sam Felton ( still no signature :-{ )
duggie@Jessica.stanford.edu (Doug Felt) (09/03/88)
In article <438@gt-ford.gtisqr.UUCP> sam@gtisqr.UUCP (Sam Felton) writes: [ has anyone obtained the Chinese System from Apple ] I did, by bothering Jordan Matteson mercilessly-- not recommended procedure ;-). Got Hebrew, Arabic, and Kanji too. Apple seems to be laboring under the misconception that this software is only of interest to people overseas. Either that or dealers refuse to distribute it for them. >Also, a question: If your software is Script Manager-compatible, will it run >properly, with the native script in place of roman characters? I have looked >into this a little but have no experience with the SM. Sure, but it takes some work to be compatible. TextEdit has been patched to work with the Script Manager in systems 5.0 and later. Unfortunately, besides the usual problems with TextEdit, you can only use one script per text edit record. This is still ok for some of us since Roman (that is, English) characters are included in Chinese character set. They are just large and blocky, rather like Chicago bold. This is particularly a pain with the Finder, but you can use an English Finder with the Chinese system if you don't mind not being able to read the Chinese-named files on the desktop. Number, date, and time formats are all different. Most software that I have seen works poorly with multibyte scripts, and some vendors (i.e. the makers of Fullwrite) don't think foreign language support is worth the trouble. The only word processor I know that works is teachtext, if you want to call that a word processor. Its good for memos. Hypercard only works minimally with Chinese. In particular, you cannot use the find command to search for Chinese characters or sentences. However, you can use Chinese in scripts, name cards and fields in Chinese, type Chinese with the type command, etc. Of course, you need at least 2 megs of memory). >Does anyone know how the characters are entered? I have seen a couple of >machines that allow you to enter Hanzi; one was a PC-clone from the PRC called You can choose from different input systems using a DA. Apple-supplied input systems include pin-yin, character code, and a stroke-based method. You can also mix methods to some extent. Matching characters (from the dictionary of about 6800) appear in the top of two pop-up bars along the bottom of the screen (the bottom contains what you have typed so far). You can use the control panel to customize whether the list of characters is reordered (the most recent character you have chosen with the same pinyin appears first) as well as other details of input. Apple is not telling any of us mere mortals how to write input methods. As an aside, the best system I have seen is the Tien Ma system on the IBM. You type pinyin with no tones and it translates as you type into modern Chinese, using word pairs and context. It seems to have an accuracy rate of over 95%. Many Chinese seem to prefer stroke-based or special encodings (cangjie) because they resist having to learn 'standard' mandarin for their own language, but non-native speakers and native speakers of the mandarin dialect who know pinyin find it far and away the best method. One major problem with Chinese is that there are two versions, one for simplified characters (Beijing) and one for traditional (Taipei). The internal character encodings are NOT the same, and the systems come separately, so it is difficult if not impossible to use both systems on the same machine at the same time. Apple wouldn't even send me the Taibei version but I got a copy from a student who bought it in Hong Kong. It has a juyinfuhao input method which I find harder to use than pinyin. This enterprising graduate student from Hong Kong, Fung Lee, has written a translator program which lets you take a document written with one script and convert it to one in the other, but you still need both systems and still can't run them at the same time. Get the script-manager documentation from APDA. It includes lots of screen dumps showing how things work. It also includes many more examples of how to program for the Script Manager than does Inside Mac V5. Push Apple for better support of foreign-language scripts in English-speaking countries. Marketing needs to know there is a demand. The tech people who work on the script manager have done a great job, and know just whats needed to create a truly international machine. Apple deserves plenty of credit for what they've managed to do so far. Let them know, but keep pushing! >Sam Felton ( still no signature :-{ ) Doug Felt (no signature to speak of) Courseware Authoring Tools Project Sweet Hall 3rd Floor Stanford, CA 94305 duggie@jessica.stanford.edu