bmartin@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Brian Martin) (09/11/88)
HELP!
My system now crashes whenever I try to copy a new program from a floppy to
the hard disk. The system just freezes in the middle of a copy operation,
and I have to hit the re-boot switch. The problem is temporarily solved by
archiving a few programs to floppy then rebuilding the desktop. I've heard
that there's some sort of limit to the number of files that can be stored on
a hard disk. I hope not, since I was planning to upgrade to a 620MB disk in
the near future.
Configuration:
Mac II
5MB RAM
Jasmine Direct Drive 160 (150MB)
135MB in use, about 3600 files on the hard disk
8-bit apple color monitor
System 6.0
ImageWriter II
This problem occurs under both system 4.2 and system 4.3, straight off the
distribution floppy with no mods. Any ideas?
====
Brian K. Martin, M.D.
University of Hawaii School of Medicine,
Martin Information Systems, Ltd.
1103 9th Ave., Suite 203
Honolulu, Hawai`i 96816-2403
Voice (808) 733-2003
Fax (808) 733-2011
ARPA: uhccux!bmartin@nosc.MIL
UUCP: {uunet,dcdwest,ucbvax}!ucsd!nosc!uhccux!bmartin
INTERNET: bmartin@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edukeith@Apple.COM (Keith Rollin) (09/12/88)
In article <2373@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu> bmartin@uhccux.UUCP (Brian K. Martin, M.D.) writes: >HELP! > >My system now crashes whenever I try to copy a new program from a floppy to >the hard disk. The system just freezes in the middle of a copy operation, >and I have to hit the re-boot switch. The problem is temporarily solved by >archiving a few programs to floppy then rebuilding the desktop. I've heard >that there's some sort of limit to the number of files that can be stored on >a hard disk. I hope not, since I was planning to upgrade to a 620MB disk in >the near future. > Yes, there is a limit to the number of files that you can have on a volume, but 3600 isn't it. It's more like 64K (either 64K files + 64K folders, or 64K altogether - I can't remember which). Besides, the Finder shouldn't crash under those conditions - it's pretty good at recovering from errors that it expects. This leads me to believe that there is something a little more wrong with your hard disk than a bad desktop file. If this were happening to me, I'd groan, break out the blank floppies, back things up, reformat, and restore. I would feel uncomfortable with working on a hard disk that hung up every once and a while. Or, try running Hard Disk Recovery - or a third party disk utility - and see if it finds anything wrong. Keith Rollin amdahl\ Developer Technical Support pyramid!sun !apple!keith Apple Computer decwrl/ "You can do what you want to me, but leave my computer alone!"
erics@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Eric Schlegel) (09/12/88)
In article <2373@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu> bmartin@uhccux.UUCP (Brian K. Martin, M.D.) writes: >My system now crashes whenever I try to copy a new program from a floppy to >the hard disk. The system just freezes in the middle of a copy operation, >and I have to hit the re-boot switch. The problem is temporarily solved by >archiving a few programs to floppy then rebuilding the desktop. I've heard >that there's some sort of limit to the number of files that can be stored on >a hard disk. I hope not, since I was planning to upgrade to a 620MB disk in >the near future. > >Configuration: > ... > Jasmine Direct Drive 160 (150MB) > 135MB in use, about 3600 files on the hard disk There is a limit, although it isn't specifically a limit on the number of files. The problem is with the desktop file, which stores several resources for every application on your disk. The resource map which specifies where the resources are in the resource file has a limited size, which I think is ~2700 resources. There's a technote about the problem, ~140 I think. With 3600 files on your hard disk you could easily be exceeding the 2700 limit. Solutions: 1. Partition the hard disk. You can do this in software, using partitioners such as the one included with Symantec Utilities; or you can also reformat the disk to physically divide it into partitions. Reformatting requires a SCSI driver smart enough to understand partitions; most don't, but Jasmine's drivers for their newest hard drives supposedly do. You can probably get a new driver from Jasmine if you don't already have one. 2. AppleShare comes with an INIT call Desktop Manager which uses B-trees and other <<size-unrestricted>> data structures to replace the Desktop file. The resource manager never gets into the act, and the old Desktop file goes away. If you can get ahold of this you can use it on your hard disk. Caveats: Apple has stated that this INIT is for use only with AppleShare; neither they nor I will be held responsible if it trashes your disk, ruins your life, or creates other natural or unnatural catastrophes. Hope this helps. Eric ------ Eric Schlegel | DISCLAIMER: I'm just a poor college student, eric.schlegel@dartmouth.edu | which means I'm not responsible for what I | say and I can't pay you if you sue me anyway.
ephraim@think.COM (ephraim vishniac) (09/12/88)
In article <2373@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu> bmartin@uhccux.UUCP (Brian K. Martin, M.D.) writes: >HELP! >My system now crashes whenever I try to copy a new program from a floppy to >the hard disk. The system just freezes in the middle of a copy operation, >and I have to hit the re-boot switch. The problem is temporarily solved by >archiving a few programs to floppy then rebuilding the desktop. I've heard >that there's some sort of limit to the number of files that can be stored on >a hard disk. I hope not, since I was planning to upgrade to a 620MB disk in >the near future. >Configuration: > Mac II > 5MB RAM > Jasmine Direct Drive 160 (150MB) > 135MB in use, about 3600 files on the hard disk > 8-bit apple color monitor > System 6.0 > ImageWriter II >This problem occurs under both system 4.2 and system 4.3, straight off the >distribution floppy with no mods. Any ideas? My ideas: Yes, there is a (very large) limit to the number of files you can put on one volume, but it's much greater than 3600. There's a significantly smaller limit imposed indirectly by the number of resources that can occupy one resource file. What matters in this case is the number of files with bundles (descriptions of how to associate file types with icons). But, I doubt you're hitting either of these limits. Two other problems are more likely: 1. You've got a bad spot on your disk. Try using something like FEdit to scan the whole disk. The easiest way is to open the volume and search for a string you're unlikely to find. FEdit will report any I/O errors it gets. Or, the search will hang, and you'll notice that... 2. You've got some files with bogus bundles that screw the finder. Old finders were sitting ducks for this; newer ones are better but far from perfect. To check for this, get a copy of my program "DeskCheck" (might already be in the PD stuff on your Jasmine) and use it to survey your disk. DeskCheck is available via anonymous ftp in the info-mac directory on sumex-aim among other places. Write me if you can't ftp or can't find it. Ephraim Vishniac ephraim@think.com Thinking Machines Corporation / 245 First Street / Cambridge, MA 02142-1214 On two occasions I have been asked, "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?"
steve@ivucsb.UUCP (Steve Lemke <steve>) (09/21/88)
In article <16967@apple.Apple.COM> keith@apple.com.UUCP (Keith Rollin) writes: #In article <2373@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu> bmartin@uhccux.UUCP (Brian K. Martin, M.D.) writes: #>My system now crashes whenever I try to copy a new program from a floppy to #>the hard disk. The system just freezes in the middle of a copy operation, #>and I have to hit the re-boot switch. The problem is temporarily solved by #>archiving a few programs to floppy then rebuilding the desktop. I've heard #>that there's some sort of limit to the number of files that can be stored on #>a hard disk. I hope not, since I was planning to upgrade to a 620MB disk in #>the near future. # #Yes, there is a limit to the number of files that you can have on a volume, #but 3600 isn't it. It's more like 64K (either 64K files + 64K folders, or 64K #altogether - I can't remember which). Besides, the Finder shouldn't crash #under those conditions - it's pretty good at recovering from errors that it #expects. This leads me to believe that there is something a little more wrong #with your hard disk than a bad desktop file. You might be interested in reading tech-note #210: "The Desktop file's Outer Limits". This says that the desktop file is a resource file, and the max. number of resources it may contain is currently 2727 (see also TN#141). A generic application (no BNDL resource) or a file without any Finder file comments does not put any resources into the Desktop file, but Finder file comments put a single resource into the Desktop file, and other applications (with BNDL resources) can put as many as 8 or 9 resources into the file. This would seem to indicate that you are running up against this boundary. As for a solution? Well, I'm not sure, other than perhaps partitioning your drive into different volumes? I only hope I don't run into this problem with my 140mb drive... -- +----------------------------- Steve Lemke -----------------------------+ | uucp: steve@ivucsb.UUCP AppleLink: LEMKE | | alt.uucp: {decwrl!}sun!apple!lemke CompuServe: 73627,570 | | internet: lemke@apple.COM GEnie: S.Lemke |