[comp.sys.mac] Lacking AppleLink, another Finder Bug

clive@drutx.ATT.COM (Clive Steward) (09/23/88)

This just got someone back at the lab:

Be in Multifinder
Have folder open, with By Name line-oriented display.
Create new file in folder, as by printing to PostScript file
New file will have 0k indicated size!  (her's was 750k, in actuality)
Also leads to further confusion as printing twice gets update, so
original file now has size, newest 0k again.

Here's another, more minor:

Have folder open, again in By Name display
change name of a given file
file name remains in same position in list; no re-sort of names takes
place.


Closing and opening folder gets around both of these.

Clive Steward

barmar@think.COM (Barry Margolin) (09/27/88)

In article <8778@drutx.ATT.COM> clive@drutx.ATT.COM (Clive Steward) writes:
>Be in Multifinder
>Have folder open, with By Name line-oriented display.
>Create new file in folder, as by printing to PostScript file
>New file will have 0k indicated size!  (her's was 750k, in actuality)
>Also leads to further confusion as printing twice gets update, so
>original file now has size, newest 0k again.

Multifinder doesn't continually monitor the file system.  It notices
when files are created or deleted (File Manager probably sends it some
kind of signal), and updates its display at those times.  Continuous
monitoring would probably be too much overhead.

>Have folder open, again in By Name display
>change name of a given file
>file name remains in same position in list; no re-sort of names takes
>place.

I suspect this is intentional.  Suppose resorting would cause the file
to be outside the current window; having a file you're working with in
some way suddenly disappear would be quite disconcerting.  A novice
might think that they had typed something that caused the file to be
deleted.  It's better to leave it there out of alphabetical order than
to make it disappear.

Barry Margolin
Thinking Machines Corp.

barmar@think.com
{uunet,harvard}!think!barmar

dorner@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) (09/27/88)

In article <8778@drutx.ATT.COM> clive@drutx.ATT.COM (Clive Steward) writes:
>Have folder open, again in By Name display
>change name of a given file
>file name remains in same position in list; no re-sort of names takes
>place.

This is a useful feature; otherwise, the newly renamed file would disappear
somewhere, or else the window would have to be scrolled; either behavior
would be disconcerting.

Along the same lines, however; the Finder seems to cache information about
files in open folders.  This causes problems with certain programs who
create files, and then give them creators and types later (or so I believe).
The Finder doesn't realize that the file types have been changed until
the window is closed and opened again.  Double-clicking on the file before that
will result in the dread ``Application not found'' alert.  I really think
the Finder ought to go to the disk and check before putting up that alert.

An example of an application that causes this is StuffIt; try archiving your
favorite document, then restoring it into an open window.  You will have to
close and reopen the folder before double-clicking the document.
-- 
Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office
Internet: dorner@garcon.cso.uiuc.edu  UUCP: {convex,uunet}!uiucuxc!dorner
IfUMust:  (217) 244-1765

clive@drutx.ATT.COM (Clive Steward) (09/28/88)

From article <28673@think.UUCP>, by barmar@think.COM (Barry Margolin):
> (0 size always on newly created files) 
> Multifinder doesn't continually monitor the file system.

Yes, that's evident.  But as Mf picks up file creations within a few 
seconds, surely the same signaling mechanism could be used to also inform of 
file close, so that size would also soon get set.  This does not occur, 
and it does cause confusion, as in posted example.

> (no re-sort on name change)
> I suspect this is intentional.  Suppose resorting would cause the file
> to be outside the current window

This is a more minor user problem.  But I'd think the update from 
the re-sort could be centered on the interesting file, with it's new name and
position?  This seems costless....

N'est-ce pas?

Clive

clive@drutx.ATT.COM (Clive Steward) (09/28/88)

From article <356@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu>, by dorner@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner):

> Along the same lines, however; the Finder seems to cache information about
> files in open folders.  This causes problems with certain programs who
> create files, and then give them creators and types later (or so I believe).
> The Finder doesn't realize that the file types have been changed until
> the window is closed and opened again.  Double-clicking on the file before 
> that will result in the dread ``Application not found'' alert.

Very good point, Steve, and I forgot about this one.

As per previous message, if the Finder would update (everything) on a file 
close, it would fix this problem as well as the file size difficulty.  

In the same line we've been discussing, a delay of a few seconds wouldn't be a
problem here, as with appearance following file creation.


Clive

macak@lakesys.UUCP (Jim Macak) (09/28/88)

In article <8778@drutx.ATT.COM> clive@drutx.ATT.COM (Clive Steward) writes:

>Here's another, more minor:

>Have folder open, again in By Name display
>change name of a given file
>file name remains in same position in list; no re-sort of names takes
>place.

>Closing and opening folder gets around both of these.

I agree with others that this _can_ be a useful feature.  Let me add that
perhaps an easier way to re-sort the names when in "By Names" display is to
just go up to the menu and choose "By Names" again.  Even though it is already
checked, the Finder acts as if it is a new choice, and re-sorts the listing
for you.

Jim

-- 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Jim -->  macak@lakesys.UUCP (Jim Macak)  {Standard disclaimer, nothin' fancy!}
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

nicky@cup.portal.com (09/29/88)

>Along the same lines, however; the Finder seems to cache information about
>files in open folders.  This causes problems with certain programs who
>create files, and then give them creators and types later (or so I believe).
>The Finder doesn't realize that the file types have been changed until
>the window is closed and opened again.  Double-clicking on the file before that
>will result in the dread ``Application not found'' alert.  I really think
>the Finder ought to go to the disk and check before putting up that alert.
>
>An example of an application that causes this is StuffIt; try archiving your
>favorite document, then restoring it into an open window.  You will have to
>close and reopen the folder before double-clicking the document.

Microsoft Word seems to do this correctly.  If you change a Word Document to
a plain text document, the icon will change almost immediately.  Any hints
on how to make the finder recognize these changes?  FlushVol() perhaps ?
Deleting the old file and creating a new one?



Nick Pilch
nicky@cup.portal.com
sun!cup.portal.com!nicky