humtech@ucschu.UCSC.EDU (Mark Frost) (09/10/88)
I've seen many netters refer to GEnie. I've heard of it, but am not familiar with it (I get the impression it's like CompuServe - which I have also never used). It sounds as if Genie would be useful to have access to. Ok, here's the big question - how do I get access to it? Who do I contact? Is it expensive? I'm trying to decide whether or not Genie would be worthwhile for me... Thanx for your help, Mark Frost (humtech@ucschu.ucsc.edu) or humtech@ucschu.bitnet
stowe@silver.bacs.indiana.edu (holly) (09/12/88)
GEnie is General Electric Network for Information Exchange, and yes, it's much like CI$ in the fact that it has software libraries and a bulletin board area. (Obviously, the system software is different, however.) GEnie is $5 an hour during non-primetime (6PM to 8AM I believe) for 300/1200 baud. For 2400 baud, it gets expensive. There is a signup fee of about $30 which includes a spiral bound manual on getting around GEnie. There are usually deals that can be found to signon without the fee. Atari has one, but I don't know the access code to use offhand. Perhaps someone else can supply it. Intersect also offers one, I believe. (I believe you do not get the manual in these cases either.) Client Services (real people) can be reached at 800-638-9636. They can give you information on local access numbers and signing up.
sethk@sco.COM (Seth I Katz) (09/13/88)
chatterchatterchatter<4788@saturn.ucsc.edu>chatterchatterhumtech@ucschu.ucsc.edu (Mark Frost): | | I've seen many netters refer to GEnie. I've heard of it, but am not | familiar with it (I get the impression it's like CompuServe - which I | have also never used). It sounds as if Genie would be useful to have | access to. | Ok, here's the big question - how do I get access to it? Who do I | contact? Is it expensive? Yes and no and yes and no. I don't have exact figures handy, so you'll have to bear with my impressions and memory. I believe it's about $15 to start. For that you get an account and a handbook on how to use the system. The question is, what will yo use the system for? The mailer is the single worst piece of garbage called software I've ever had the displeasure of using. Every time I use it, I am inspired to flame the sysop. The software uploaded by users is really great. This is the reason to join GEnie, for me. It seems to cost a lot- they take it directly from my account. You are charged by the minute, and although they claim they don't charge for download time, they do (I haven't bothered to fight this one yet- I am simply giving up...). Finally, you really have to kick and scream to get an explanation for billing. They much prefer to silently pull from your account :-(. Contact Atari over the hill about GEnie. I got in on an introductory offer that waived the $15 fee (but I got no handbook :-( ) that was offered to Atari users. Contact me at ucscc!sco!sethk for details.
lim@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu (Kian-Tat Lim) (09/13/88)
I'm posting to clear up some possible misconceptions. I have no connection with GEnie, other than being a fairly satisfied customer. As has been posted before, GEnie charges $5/hr for non-prime-time usage at 1200 bps. Prime-time usage (8 AM to 6 PM local time) is prohibitively expensive, at around $35/hr (I don't have this figure since it's so ridiculous). 2400 bps is $13.50 non-prime-time. On-line time is measured in minutes and seconds. Charges are billed directly to a credit card or through a checking account debit service. Billing information for the past month (including on-line time on a daily basis) is available from a menu selection. Downloads (from GEnie to your computer) are charged normally. Uploads (from your computer to GEnie) are free. Download protocols include text, XMODEM, 1K XMODEM, and YMODEM. Upload protocols include text, XMODEM, and XMODEM CRC. I don't like the editor, either, so I edit off-line and upload messages. Straight text message upload is supported. -- Kian-Tat Lim (ktl@wagvax.caltech.edu, KTL @ CITCHEM.BITNET, GEnie: K.LIM1)
drs@bnlux0.bnl.gov (David R. Stampf) (09/13/88)
In article <861@viscous> sethk@sco.COM (Seth I Katz) writes: >chatterchatterchatter<4788@saturn.ucsc.edu>chatterchatterhumtech@ucschu.ucsc.edu (Mark Frost): >| >| I've seen many netters refer to GEnie. I've heard of it, but am not >| familiar with it (I get the impression it's like CompuServe - which I >| have also never used). It sounds as if Genie would be useful to have >| access to. >| Ok, here's the big question - how do I get access to it? Who do I >| contact? Is it expensive? > > >The software uploaded by users is really great. This is the reason to >join GEnie, for me. > >It seems to cost a lot- they take it directly from my account. You are >charged by the minute, and although they claim they don't charge for >download time, they do (I haven't bothered to fight this one yet- I am simply >giving up...). Actually, they do charge for download time (Genie -> You) but they don't charge for upload time - you are not penalized for donating software. I haven't used the mail since most of the people I want to talk to are on this network, but I have downloaded a fair amount of software and much of it is good. There are also some machine specific discussions that are pretty good. Best of all, is that there isn't an extra charge for 1200 baud (but there is one for 2400 baud), and there isn't a minimum charge. When you decide to drop out for a month or so, you don't have to pay anyway. Compuserve's connect charge is at least $12.50/hr for connect time at 1200 baud - more than double what Genie costs. (Off hours that is). From what I've heard, the software is about the same, Atari seems to be stronger on Genie, but Mac is stronger on Compuserve, and all of the other services - well I don't bother using them. Contact each and compare - < dave
apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) (09/14/88)
In article <861@viscous> sethk@sco.COM (Seth I Katz) writes: > they claim they don't charge for > download time, ... No, they claim they don't charge for UPLOAD time. That's when you GIVE THEM software. Download time (when you get software FROM THEM) is charged at the normal rate ($5/hr). Also, noncommercial GEnie subscribers can only call after 5PM local time and on weekends: the rest of the day is for GE's commercial customers, who are the primary consumers of that whole computer setup. GEnie has 2400-baud access at a higher hourly rate (I don't know how much higher) but, of course, 2400 baud cuts your download time in half. I would recommend using 1200 baud for interactive online time; log out and call up again at 2400 baud just for downloads. On the other hand, I've never paid for GEnie or used 2400 baud: I have a free account because I'm with a "provider" (Atari) and free accounts aren't allowed to call up at 2400. Don't get mad: if your company brings GEnie as much business as Atari does, you can get free online time, too. ============================================ Opinions expressed above do not necessarily -- Allan Pratt, Atari Corp. reflect those of Atari Corp. or anyone else. ...ames!atari!apratt
syap@cc.rochester.edu (James Fitzwilliam) (09/14/88)
In article <7946@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu> lim@cit-vax.UUCP (Kian-Tat Lim) writes:
*As has been posted before, GEnie charges $5/hr for non-prime-time usage at
*1200 bps. Prime-time usage (8 AM to 6 PM local time) is prohibitively
*expensive, at around $35/hr (I don't have this figure since it's so
*ridiculous). 2400 bps is $13.50 non-prime-time. On-line time is measured
*in minutes and seconds.
Last I checked, the surcharge for 2400 was $7.50 for a total of $12.50 -- it
may have gone up since I rarely use 2400. This is one of my few complaints
with GEnie: it costs MORE than twice as much to not-quite double your
throughput. I can live with this, though, since at 1200 GEnie is the
cheapest service going. Also, I think billing is rounded to the nearest
hundredth of a minute, don't ask me why. As for prime-time, who needs it
except the businessmen getting stock quotes? (:
*Downloads (from GEnie to your computer) are charged normally. Uploads (from
*your computer to GEnie) are free. Download protocols include text, XMODEM,
*1K XMODEM, and YMODEM. Upload protocols include text, XMODEM, and XMODEM CRC.
YMODEM support now includes YMODEM-G, if you have Microphone II.
I really enjoy GEnie a great deal. The software libraries seem well-stocked,
and the special-interest roundtables are a lot more fun knowing they're only
about 8 cents a minute. In fact, there's a new deal LOWERING the price of
one of their most popular items: the CB simulator -- you can now sign up for
unlimited use of the CB for $50/month. There really are some interesting
folks on it, and I know of two CBers who are now engaged!
Disclaimer: I don't work for GEnie, I'm just a satisfied CB addict.
James
===========================================================================
domain: syap@vera.cc.rochester.edu |
internet: 128.151.224.6 | "Piano is my forte" (-:
possible path: ...!rochester!vera!syap |
GEnie: FITZWILLIAM |
===========================================================================stowe@silver.bacs.indiana.edu (holly) (09/16/88)
In article <861@viscous> sethk@sco.COM (Seth I Katz) writes: [about GEnie...] >... and although they claim they don't charge for >download time, they do (I haven't bothered to fight this one yet- I am simply >giving up...). I have *never* seen GEnie claim to not charge you for download time. You are not charged for UPLOAD time. Holly, SysOp GEnie ST RoundTable (HS)
dbw@crash.cts.com (David B. Whiteman) (09/17/88)
In article <1170@atari.UUCP> apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) writes: ... >. Download time (when you get software FROM THEM) is >charged at the normal rate ($5/hr). Also, noncommercial GEnie >subscribers can only call after 5PM local time and on weekends: the rest >of the day is for GE's commercial customers, who are the primary >consumers of that whole computer setup. > >GEnie has 2400-baud access at a higher hourly rate (I don't know how >much higher) but, of course, 2400 baud cuts your download time in half. >I would recommend using 1200 baud for interactive online time; log out >and call up again at 2400 baud just for downloads. I have learned from painful experience that on Genie and CIS and other systems that 2400 baud is not necessary twice the speed of 1200 baud. The bits pass thru the modem at 2400 baud, and you are paying a higher rate; however, there are more pauses and longer pauses at 2400 baud. If you take two people downloading under similar conditions and load on the network, but one is downloading at 1200 baud and the other 2400 baud, it may turn out that the 2400 baud person takes less time than the 1200 baud person, but not close to half the time. Under heavy conditions both of them may take the same amount of time. Genie is better than CIS in this regard -- Genie sends the entire file to the local node that the user is downloading from quickly, and the local node handles the download. CIS sends the file in packets across the entire network which slows the download down considerably.
jwhitnell@cup.portal.com (09/19/88)
dbw@crash.cts.com (David B. Whiteman) writes |Genie is better than CIS in this regard -- Genie sends the entire file |to the local node that the user is downloading from quickly, and the local node |handles the download. CIS sends the file in packets across the entire network |which slows the download down considerably. I think this depends alot on what protocol you are using. With Compuserve, the protocol of choice is CompueServe QuickB. Using QuickB, I've averaged 220 to 230+ cps on a 2400 bps line. Only during the busiest of times (6 to 8 pm here on the west cost) does it ever drop below 220. You can't get a whole lot faster then that. I don't have number for Genie, but I don't think they come close to that, even with the new 1K Xmodem. -- Jerry Whitnell jwhitnell@cup.portal.com ...!sun!portal!jwhitnell
sethk@sco.COM (Seth I Katz) (09/20/88)
chatterchatterchatter<2279@silver.bacs.indiana.edu>chatterchatterstowe@silver.UUCP (holly): | In article <861@viscous> sethk@sco.COM (Seth I Katz) writes: | | [about GEnie...] | | >... and although they claim they don't charge for | >download time, they do (I haven't bothered to fight this one yet- I am simply | >giving up...). | | I have *never* seen GEnie claim to not charge you for download time. | You are not charged for UPLOAD time. | | Holly, SysOp | GEnie ST RoundTable | (HS) Ok, everyone and their uncle has been clever enough to repeat the point that GEnie never claimed that they didn't charge for download time. I'd like to see someone stand up for that piece of garbage mailer of theirs. BTW, I don't know how rich you folks are, but I think $5 an hour is not cheap. Do we base our standards on Compu$erve? -s
ngg@bridge2.3Com.Com (Norman Goodger) (09/21/88)
In article <881@viscous>, sethk@sco.COM (Seth I Katz) writes: > chatterchatterchatter<2279@silver.bacs.indiana.edu>chatterchatterstowe@silver.UUCP (holly): > | > Ok, everyone and their uncle has been clever enough to repeat the point that > GEnie never claimed that they didn't charge for download time. > > I'd like to see someone stand up for that piece of garbage mailer of theirs. > > BTW, I don't know how rich you folks are, but I think $5 an hour is not > cheap. Do we base our standards on Compu$erve? > -s Yes a variety of comparsions are made to CIS and their $12.50 plus surcharges in some cases for 1200 baud connections. This does make $5.00 much cheaper. And Genie provides many of the same services, and some CIS doesn't and of course vice/versa. As far as GEnie mail and the BB software, there is room for improvement, but CIS could use some to, either method has its drawbacks if looked at very closely. The thing about Genie is you need to take the time to learn how to use the software effectively, there are a lot of options and it can be quite powerful if you learn to use them to your advantage...this means reading the manual, and getting out there and just spend some time seeing what the commands do, and ask questions if something does not work like you expected....most of the problems it appears is that users of Genie that have a hard time using it come from not reading the manual, or not taking that couple minutes to ask the questions to learn how to use it. Norm Goodger 3Com Sysop - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862
stowe@silver.bacs.indiana.edu (holly) (09/27/88)
In article <881@viscous> sethk@sco.COM (Seth I Katz) writes: >I'd like to see someone stand up for that piece of garbage mailer of theirs. You didn't see me doing it, did you? I hate it, too, so I'm not about to stand up for it. The only things I hate more are Vax mail and CI$'s mail. >BTW, I don't know how rich you folks are, but I think $5 an hour is not >cheap. Do we base our standards on Compu$erve? In the world of information services like GEnie and CI$, $5 is not the high end, so in relation, yes, it is "cheap", however, in relation to one's own finances, the difference between $5 and $12.50 an hour may be negligible. Some people can't pay even the $5, and some don't flinch at $7.50 an hour difference. Holly Stowe ST RoundTable Sysop (HS) #include std.disclaimer
drc@claris.UUCP (Dennis Cohen) (09/27/88)
If you're talking about the differential at 1200 baud, then I think that GEnie is a definite price-performance winner; however, if you're running at 2400, then CI$ becomes the big win. There are far more 2400 baud CI$ nodes, they are still 12.50/hr, and you can get there at that rate 24 hr/day. GEnie, on the other hand has a paucity of 2400 baud nodes, they cost more per hour, and every one I have been able to find has a $10 or $12/hr "surcharge" added. As a matter of fact, when I lived in Glendale (4 miles from downtown LA), the only 1200 baud number that wasn't a toll call had a surcharge on it. This is all in addition to the limitation on the hours when the system is available. Additionally, if your main activity is uploading and downloading, then CI$ is a lot less frustrating on throughput (so long as your comm program supports their QuickB protocol). I have never gotten less than 110 bytes/sec at 1200 on CI$ using QuickB and I've never gotten better than 75 bytes/sec on GEnie. Just my personal opinions, but I think that the old saw "you get what you pay for" has some credibility here. Dennis Cohen Claris Corp. ------------ Disclaimer: Any opinions expressed above are _MINE_!
victoro@crash.cts.com (Victor O'Rear) (09/29/88)
In article <5631@claris.UUCP> drc@claris.UUCP (Dennis Cohen) writes: > >If you're talking about the differential at 1200 baud, then I think that GEnie >is a definite price-performance winner; however, if you're running at 2400, >then CI$ becomes the big win. There are far more 2400 baud CI$ nodes, they >are still 12.50/hr, and you can get there at that rate 24 hr/day. GEnie, on >the other hand has a paucity of 2400 baud nodes, they cost more per hour, and >every one I have been able to find has a $10 or $12/hr "surcharge" added. On another service, this argument was said on the service I belong to... In response to BYTE being MS-DOS, I usually ask the accusser when he or she last read BYTE. In your case, I would have pointed out that the August issue had a 96-page special supplement for Mac users. I also would have pointed out the article on UNIX for the Mac, products for the Mac galore, reviews of numerous non-MS-DOS products, and three articles on C. As for BIX being too expensive during prime time, I mention that Genie is $34 an hour. As CIS being cheaper, I point out that 1200-baud access over CIS lines at non peak is $12.50. BIX is $12. At 2400, the other guys are more expensive as well (BIX is $13.50). If folks have PC Pursuit, they can call our Boston number. If folks used BIX when it first went on line, their account is still avail- able. They should try the commands now. I can't imagine anyone truly believing that Genie or CIS is more spunky. It just aint so. File transfers are a booger wherever you go on a packet network. BIX was miserable at first. Now, I think we are as good as anybody. This is in no way a criticism of you, Jim. I have had these sort of discussions at shows before. Usually, the complainer is speaking through his hat. I try not to argue, but I do shot holes, gently, in their statements. It's nice to hear that we have some good points. Most of the complaints you cite *were* true. When we started up, frankly, we had no idea of what we were doing. At least I didn't. I shouldn't speak for everyone else. We haven't done any marketing to counteract the rumors and mis- information out there. This soon will change. [End of captured text..] Just thought another viewpoint would be interesting. Me, I'm waiting until I can think of a free way into C$. -- =============================================================================== ! Victor O'Rear {hplabs!hp-sdd, akgua, sdcsvax, nosc.mil}!crash!victoro | | ARPA: crash!victoro@nosc.ARPA and home: (619) 588-7423 (Sand Eigo, Ca) | | | | "Fools, Idiots! Don't they realize that they are dealing with forces | | beyond comprehension!" - "Doctor Science" | ===============================================================================