barmar@think.COM (Barry Margolin) (09/24/88)
In article <10330042@eecs.nwu.edu> bob@eecs.nwu.edu (Bob Hablutzel) writes: >To my mind, the minimal Macintosh is a Mac Plus with a single floppy. It >just depends on what you want to use the Mac for. That's a bit bare, unless by "single floppy" you mean single EXTERNAL floppy. Have you ever tried to run Installer on a single-floppy system? Maybe you don't mind swapping disks every second for an hour, but "the rest of us" do. And there are many popular applications that don't have room for the System on the application disk. I'd say that the minimal usable system is a Mac Plus with one internal and one external floppy. Barry Margolin Thinking Machines Corp. barmar@think.com {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar
bob@eecs.nwu.edu (Bob Hablutzel) (09/24/88)
>>To my mind, the minimal Macintosh is a Mac Plus with a single floppy. It >>just depends on what you want to use the Mac for. > >That's a bit bare, unless by "single floppy" you mean single EXTERNAL >floppy. Have you ever tried to run Installer on a single-floppy >system? Maybe you don't mind swapping disks every second for an hour, >but "the rest of us" do. And there are many popular applications that >don't have room for the System on the application disk. I'll stand by what I said. Granted, an external floppy would be real nice. All I'm saying is that useful work can (and is!) being done without all the fancy trappings some people seem to think are "neccessary". Remember, some people can get along just fine without the newest systems. (That said, I'll agree - an external floppy is so cheap that there is no real good reason not to have one...) Bob Hablutzel BOB@NUACC.ACNS.NWU.EDU
tedj@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Ted Johnson) (09/26/88)
><Apple does not care about us anymore...their prices reflect that. To my mind ><the minimal Macintosh is a Mac II with at least 2 megs of memory, Color and ><at least a 90 meg hard disk. How many individuals will be able to afford this ><at the rate Apple's prices are going? Not many I assure you. >< >< We are the people [stuff deleted] >< >< We are the people [more stuff deleted] >< >< We are the people [yet more stuff deleted] This is beginning to sound like that Michael Jackson & friends song, "We are the People...". Maybe we can convince Bob Geldoff to put together a "Mac Aid" concert, to benefit all of us who can't afford a Mac II, 2 Meg of RAM, a color monitor, and a 90 Meg hard disk. -Ted
twakeman@hpcea.CE.HP.COM (Teriann Wakeman) (09/27/88)
>Do you long for the days when a 128K machine cost $2000 - 2500? This is not >to disparage the efforts of those people, but simply to point out thet all >was not perfect back in 1984. Larry, No I long for the days when a state of the art Macintosh can be had for under $3000. If you look at the press release, part of the rational given for the price increase is a high demand for the Mac. Apple is also known for having one of the biggest cash reserves in the business. Independent estimates for materials and manufacturing costs of a Mac made by multiple publications have indicated that there is a LOT of profit built into the old prices. I would dearly love to be able to run on a system that others consider a minimum system. I upgraded to 1 Meg to be able to run Hypercard. I am an operating system addict who has just been told by my connection that the price of a new fix is more then I can Pay. Of course I'm going to stamp my feet and cry out. I haven't had a state of the art Mac since the fat Mac came out. But at least over time I had been able afford to upgrade to the minimal current Mac. Oh well, maybe when a 68030 box is the minimum current configuration.... TeriAnn
twakeman@hpcea.CE.HP.COM (Teriann Wakeman) (09/28/88)
>I agree completely with Chuq on his observation that Apple never intended >the Mac to be the computer for the rest of us in terms of price. Macs have >always been more highly priced than their competitors. The point, like >Chuq made, is that the manner of operation made it possible for the Mac to >be the computer for the rest of us because it would be easy to learn, and >easy to use. It is the philosphy that is for the rest of us - using a >window/icon/mouse interface, not the command line interface. You mean the rest of us who are not involved in the design and manufacture of other computers. $*) >In 1984, when the Mac was first released at a list price of $2499, everyone >said it should've cost $1999. From day one, people complained about the >price. Apple has been consistent, the complainers have been consistent. >Kevin Fong >Technical Staff (and Mac user since 1984) >MITRE Corporation >kf@mitre-bedford.arpa I'm not sure that Apple is being consistant this time. They have never significantly raised proces before {this statement will probably come back to haunt me}. Apple has always released new products for what they think the market will bear. The reason, we have been told is to recoup the R&D costs. We are told that Apple tries to recoup the entire R&D cost of the product the first year. Knowing this, the gota-have-the-latest-technology junkies dump their old machine and run right out to be the first on their block to have a new beastie. Students use their cheaper-than-anywhere-else discounts to purchase the new beastie. Those of us who do not have access to the student discount, and have to worry about making rent patiently wait {and maybe drool a little} until the first year has gone by and Apple traditionally starts to lower the prices to where we can afford to purchase the entry configuration than add bells & whistles as we can afford them. After waiting patiently for a year for the MacII prices to start coming down, they go up. Those of us who are marginal high tech purchasers, who waited, are left holding our now woefully inadequate funds. Those who can not afford a new Mac but have become a Macjunkie are out too. The used Mac market is supplied largely individuals that have purchased a new system & no longer want their old. As everyone on this newsgroup frequently points out. The Mac interface is far and away better then those of the big blue camp. And the more one is exposed to the Mac interface the less tolerent they become of the big blue camp's interfaces. I submit that the Mac interface is highly addictive, and as such has created Macjunkies who would not readily tolerate a differenet interface in their homes. And, having boughten into the American dream, MacJunkies can not possibly be satisfied with anything but the latest & greatest. Raise the prices, especially at a time when everyone has been expecting them to drop and of course the MacJunkies who cannot afford the new prices scream in anguish. And of course, their more affluent counterparts {or desperate who morgaged their lives away}, who have their new machines{Macfix} look at the have nots in disbelief, saying " The Mac isn't for just anyone you know" TeriAnn (yah, I've been strung out on Macs since '84 too)
nick@lfcs.ed.ac.uk (Nick Rothwell) (10/03/88)
In article <10330043@eecs.nwu.edu> bob@eecs.nwu.edu (Bob Hablutzel) writes: >>>To my mind, the minimal Macintosh is a Mac Plus with a single floppy. It >>>just depends on what you want to use the Mac for. >> >I'll stand by what I said. ... Absolutely. Here (at the "unprosperous" end of the U.K ;-)...), a Macintosh Plus is a luxury computer. Period. I tell people I have a Mac Plus, and they go "wow". If you go into an AppleCentre and ask for a Macintosh Plus, it will costs you something like (hum hum, exchange rates, VAT, ...) $3000. *I* think that's a lot of money. I got mine for L1000 sterling, through educational discount. That's twice the price of a horrible Atari box, or 3 or 4 times an Amstrad PC? A Mac SE is Even More "Wow". The Mac II is a legend (well, *I*'ve seen one, ...). You should see what our kids have to use in our schools sometime. I was blown away by a 128K Mac back around '85. I'm still pretty blown away by the Plus. I'm not complaining about the price of the Mac Plus - after all, I'm an owner and glad I could stretch to it. But please, stop and think once in a while how lucky you guys in the States are to be able to consider the Plus to be less than minimal? Thank you and good night. >Bob Hablutzel BOB@NUACC.ACNS.NWU.EDU Nick. -- Nick Rothwell, Laboratory for Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh. nick@lfcs.ed.ac.uk <Atlantic Ocean>!mcvax!ukc!lfcs!nick ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ...while the builders of the cages sleep with bullets, bars and stone, they do not see your road to freedom that you build with flesh and bone.