) (10/18/88)
I currently subscribe to MacWorld, and am considering dropping it, as I feel the ratio of advertising to content is too high. I've read a couple of issues apiece of MacUser and Macazine, and they seem to be better (Macazine better than MacUser). Anyone like to comment on their favorite, and why? Thanks - Rich
steve@violet.berkeley.edu (Steve Goldfield) (10/18/88)
In article <8810171949.AA26244@decwrl.dec.com> long@mcntsh.dec.com (I'm not an engineer, but I play one on TV!) writes:
#>
#>I currently subscribe to MacWorld, and am considering dropping it, as I feel
#>the ratio of advertising to content is too high. I've read a couple of issues
#>apiece of MacUser and Macazine, and they seem to be better (Macazine better
#>than MacUser). Anyone like to comment on their favorite, and why?
#>
#>Thanks - Rich
Just a comment. When I'm buying hardware or software, I look for
the publications with the most ads so I can get the best price.
So advertising isn't always a drawback. For better or worse,
the advertisers go to the pubs people seem to read the most.
The ads are also a way to track new products and send for
information. (I should point out, though, that on the job I'm only
allowed to buy Apple Products from Apple through the university
even if I can get a cheaper price elsewhere.)
Don't read this as an endorsement of MacWorld,
though. My boss gets it so I read it. I've never seen Macazine.
Could you post their address so I can send for a sample. Thanks.
Steve Goldfieldgould@pilot.njin.net (Brian Jay Gould) (10/18/88)
I agree that MacWorld is mostly ads. I still get MacWorld along with my MacUser until my subscription to MacWorld runs out. I like the review summaries in MacUser and the list of current software versions. The people at Ziff-Davis (MacUser) seem to be real Mac users. I'm not so sure about MacWorld. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Brian Jay Gould :: INTERNET gould@jvnca.csc.org BITNET gould@jvncc - - telephone (609) 520-8622 the least reliable means - -------------------------------------------------------------------------
kehr@felix.UUCP (Shirley Kehr) (10/18/88)
In article <8810171949.AA26244@decwrl.dec.com> long@mcntsh.dec.com (I'm not an engineer, but I play one on TV!) writes: > >I currently subscribe to MacWorld, and am considering dropping it, as I feel >the ratio of advertising to content is too high. I've read a couple of issues >apiece of MacUser and Macazine, and they seem to be better (Macazine better >than MacUser). Anyone like to comment on their favorite, and why? > >Thanks - Rich I subscribe to all three, although I just started Macazine. Someone posted a comparison of all three using (I believe) percent of the magazine devoted to articles versus advertisements. Macazine won. However, I don't understand all the complaints against the ads. That's one of my major reasons for reading the magazines. Many people ask questions on the net about what's available and guess where the answers are? Who cares if one is thicker because of ads. They all cost about the same. Shirley Kehr
chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (10/18/88)
>I currently subscribe to MacWorld, and am considering dropping it, as I feel >the ratio of advertising to content is too high. I've read a couple of issues >apiece of MacUser and Macazine, and they seem to be better (Macazine better >than MacUser). Anyone like to comment on their favorite, and why? Well, now that I'm not writing for Mac Horizons any more (may it rest in peace...) there isn't any problem with conflicts of interest, so what the heck... I've grown to really like Macazine. It is really the only Mac magazine that puts its users up front. Their columnists know what they're talking about and they aren't afraid to pull punches (the flap over Clapp's 'Shareware is Dead' column is still going down in some places.....). Their reviews are more rigorous than anyone. I can't remember a time when I saw a review I thought was fluff. I've talked to Levitus (the editor) a couple of times on possible articles, and the future directions he wants to take the magazine make it look better and better to me. They are *very* aware of the potential problems that hit MacWorld and MacUser (the glossy can't-upset-the-big-busness-and-advertisers-syndrome) and try to avoid it. They do believe that they are the ombudsman for the users, rather than shills for the advertisers. Macazine was the first major Mac publication to put its money where its mouth was and put the magazine together with DTP. They are the only magazine with a policy to not review programs until they show up in shrink-wrap [this isn't strictly true: MacUser has such a policy, but they do it anyway by calling them 'previews' instead of reviews. If it smells like a duck...] Macazine: good stuff. It's the only one I'd write for these days, because it's the only one I wouldn't mind being associated with. Macworld/MacUser: You flip a coin, you take your choice. Both are big-glossies, advertiser/big business/hype-fluff oriented Byte-clones. The only *real* difference is that Macworld makes no pretensions towards being anything else, while MacUser still wants you to believe it's in it for *you*. hah. MacUser no longer has Doug Clapp, which was its savings grace. He's writing for Macazine now. MacUser also no longer has Steve Bobker, which can only help the magazine. Unfortunately, MacUser *still* has John Dvorak, which really shows the real disdain MacUser management has for its readers. As a complete aside, Dvorak was bitching in his Sunday Examiner column that Apple's stopped inviting him to parties and press events, along with another un-named person that, from what I can tell, is Denise Caruso (ex-Macintosh Today person and technology columnist for the Examiner). He seems to think this is an affront against God or something. Me, I think it shows there *is* hope, since Dvorak's been an idiot since day one and I'm glad someone at Apple is finally tired of listening to him bash anything that isn't an IBM machine. Way to go, Apple. My personal preference is MacWorld. I think having a Byte-clone around is useful, since it's the place where all the mail-order ads and hype shows up. And Macworld does reasonable articles for its orientation. The MacUser stuff is generally light on content and fluffy. When both magazines cover the same topic at the same time (Word processing) MacWorld beats MacUser to a pulp. If you only want one magazine, take macazine. If you want two, add Macworld. Beyond that? It's up to you. I'll probably drop MacUser *again* when my subscription is up. Other Zines: Not a whole lot these days. MacWeek, if you can qualify, does a good job of keeping up with Mac market. If you need a weekly update, that is. Personally, I've decided I don't, especially with the nets around. With the death of Macintosh Today (not surprisingly, considering the magazine always had an ego the size of Montana) it's the only weekly, and by the time M-T died, MacWeek was beating it into a pulp -- by remembering it was in the Macintosh news market and not in the "We're such a great magazine" ego-trip market. Mactutor: I dropped my subscription, and never noticed. What more can I say? As far as I know, that's about it in Macland these days.... We really need a good technical magazine (like what Dr. Dobb's *used* to be). I know of one magazine that's starting up in January, but I'm not convinced it will be what we're looking for here. Then, of course, there are the HyperCArd magazines. The less said about them, the better, at least until they decide to publish regularly, and until we find out of there *is* a market for them. Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ Editor/Publisher, OtherRealms
heath@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu (Todd Heatherton) (10/19/88)
In article <15613@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> steve@violet.berkeley.edu (Steve Goldfield) writes: >In article <8810171949.AA26244@decwrl.dec.com> long@mcntsh.dec.com (I'm not an engineer, but I play one on TV!) writes: >#> >#>I currently subscribe to MacWorld, and am considering dropping it, as I feel >#>the ratio of advertising to content is too high. I've read a couple of issues >#>apiece of MacUser and Macazine, and they seem to be better (Macazine better >#>than MacUser). Anyone like to comment on their favorite, and why? >#> >#>Thanks - Rich > >Just a comment. When I'm buying hardware or software, I look for >the publications with the most ads so I can get the best price. >So advertising isn't always a drawback. For better or worse, >the advertisers go to the pubs people seem to read the most. >The ads are also a way to track new products and send for >information. (I should point out, though, that on the job I'm only >allowed to buy Apple Products from Apple through the university >even if I can get a cheaper price elsewhere.) > >Don't read this as an endorsement of MacWorld, >though. My boss gets it so I read it. I've never seen Macazine. >Could you post their address so I can send for a sample. Thanks. > >Steve Goldfield I would just like to add that I'm killing my subscription to MacUser. Does everybody else get tired of the same review section each menth and the self-serving editorial bias? I know I can't take another issue.
ech@poseidon.ATT.COM (Edward C Horvath) (10/20/88)
From article <73405@sun.uucp>, by chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach): <various praise for Macazine> > ...they aren't afraid to pull punches... Not quite what you meant, eh, Chuq? Pulling a punch is holding back. Just a nit...anyway, I agree with you more and more, and share your concern that they "stay honest." Of course, there was a day when MacUser was playing catch-up and they had more substance. Then Z-D bought 'em...sigh... > If you only want one magazine, take macazine. If you want two, add Macworld. > Beyond that? It's up to you. I'll probably drop MacUser *again* when my > subscription is up. You just described my actions of the last couple of months. > Mactutor: I dropped my subscription, and never noticed. What more can I say? I have to disagree here, but then, I write a lot of Mac code. MacTutor is Macintosh Tech Notes for The Rest of Us. There was a funny incident at the '88 Apple Spring Developer conference: when Dave Smith (MacTutor's founder and editor) tried to ask a question in one session, the moderator (who shall remain nameless) said "no questions from the press." The rowdy reaction from the floor was "that's not press, that's MacTutor!" Dave's question was allowed... =Ned Horvath=
twakeman@hpcea.CE.HP.COM (Teriann Wakeman) (10/21/88)
When MacWorld and the Mac were both new, MacWorld was the only answer. It had
articals of use to us new Macites learning the new machines. But after a year,
with Macworld, I grew up but MacWorld didn't. It still seemed to cater to
beginners. MacUser came along with their offer of a free premier issue. It
was better then MacWorld. It had offerings for both begining users and more
sophisticated users. Things like introductions to programming languages on
the Mac {the 2 part 'A taste of Pascal' comes to mind} or how to's using
tools such as Res-Edit or Fedit. But somwhere along the line, MacUser went
into direct competition with MacWorld for the beginner market, and abandoned
more experianced users. A few months ago Macazine gave me a freebee 6 mo
subscription. So far I have found at least one and sometimes more articals
per issue that I thought were interesting. I feel that Macazines reviews
are more realistic than those of the other magazines. I have not found an
interisting artical in MacUser in I don't know how long. When MacUser runs
an artical on what I think is an interesting subject it seems to be full of
introduction with no substance. I have found myself questioning some of
MacUser's reviews and review methods. When My subscription to MacUser ends,
it is not going to be renewed. On the otherhand, That freebee 6 months to
Macazine has me hooked. I will purchase a subscription to Macizine.
My advice: If you are new to Macs, subscribe to MacWorld for a year and
move to Macazine. If you are familure with Macs, try Macazine. If you specify
Mac hardware and/or software subscribe to MacWorld to see what is coming
on the market soon, and to Macazine to read the reviews to see how good it
really is when it is on the market.
Me, I am still looking for a magazine aimed midway between Macazine and
Mactutor.
TeriAnnhildreth@cg-atla.UUCP (Lon Hildreth) (10/22/88)
In article <8810171949.AA26244@decwrl.dec.com> long@mcntsh.dec.com (I'm not an engineer, but I play one on TV!) writes: > >I currently subscribe to MacWorld, and am considering dropping it, as I feel >the ratio of advertising to content is too high. I've read a couple of issues >apiece of MacUser and Macazine, and they seem to be better (Macazine better >than MacUser). Anyone like to comment on their favorite, and why? In the past 6 months, both MacWorld and MacUser have added a considerable number of advertising pages. They are both are now about 400 pages. Up to Byte size. They take up a lot of space on my bookshelf and take longer to read because there are more pages to turn. There is still some useful information, however. Macazine continues to be fairly thin and mostly articles as opposed to ads. I tend to find that there is less useful information in Macazine than the other two. If I could only subscribe to one, it would be MacUser. But this is not a strong endorsement of the magazine. -- Lon Hildreth ...!{decvax,ima,ism780c,ulowell}!cg-atla!hildreth Compugraphic Corp "You can't beat fun at the old ball park." Wilmington, MA - Harry Caray
levin@bbn.com (Joel B Levin) (10/22/88)
In article <6028@cg-atla.UUCP> hildreth@cg-atla.UUCP (Lon Hildreth) writes: | |In the past 6 months, both MacWorld and MacUser have added a considerable |number of advertising pages. They are both are now about 400 pages. Up to |Byte size. They take up a lot of space on my bookshelf and take longer to |read because there are more pages to turn. There is still some useful |information, however. Has editorial content (as measured by column inches or pages) decreased? If not, and the price has not increased (which it does not at least until you must renew), the information content per dollar does not decrease either, and you are only complaining about the number of ads you have to wade through. Of course this assumes the quality of this content is constant. If MacUser or MacWorld had a KILL file, this wouldn't matter, either. :-) /JBL UUCP: {backbone}!bbn!levin POTS: (617) 873-3463 INTERNET: levin@bbn.com
jackd@copper.SDP.TEK.COM (Jack Decker) (10/26/88)
My biggest complaint about all the Mac mags is their glacial time to market. Their reviews and news seem to run 4-6 months behind what I see on the Net and in MacWeek. jack decker
moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer) (10/27/88)
I continue to get MacWorld as a "reference" work -- I need opinions about a
product, check out their year-end indenx and look it up (I also really like
Borrell and Steven Levy's columns -- the latter is, I think, the best Mac
columnist around). And I get MacWeek for free for upgrade/new product
announcements, gossip, and especially the Rick and Ric Show (i.e. MacInTouch
column). MacUser has drifted into a compendium of gibberish; I liked it
much better than MacWorld, but just before the weeklies came along, they
began to disintegrate. Whether or not Rupert Murdoch buying Ziff-Davis has
anything to do with this... well, no cheesecake photos on the covers yet.
After sending me 60,000 renewal notices, they finally sent me an issue that
says THIS IS YOUR LAST ISSUE!!! on the cover. I sent their reply mail back
saying, "Is that a promise?"
Macazine is also rather scattered in its information, though it doesn't have
the offensive air of MacUser; I'm just tired of the "homey happy bunch o'
folk" atmosphere. It does a very good job on technical reviews, though.
"Guess what I'm in for."
"Uhh..."
"Wait! I'll give you a
hint..."
---
Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer
INTERNET: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM
Manual UUCP: {uw-beaver, sun, microsoft}!fluke!moriarty
CREDO: You gotta be Cruel to be Kind...
<*> DISCLAIMER: Do what you want with me, but leave my employers alone! <*>heath@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu (Todd Heatherton) (10/27/88)
In article <64828@felix.UUCP> kehr@felix.UUCP (Shirley Kehr) writes: >In article <8810171949.AA26244@decwrl.dec.com> long@mcntsh.dec.com (I'm not an engineer, but I play one on TV!) writes: >> >>I currently subscribe to MacWorld, and am considering dropping it, as I feel >>the ratio of advertising to content is too high. I've read a couple of issues >>apiece of MacUser and Macazine, and they seem to be better (Macazine better >>than MacUser). Anyone like to comment on their favorite, and why? >> >>Thanks - Rich > >I subscribe to all three, although I just started Macazine. Someone posted >a comparison of all three using (I believe) percent of the magazine devoted >to articles versus advertisements. Macazine won. > >However, I don't understand all the complaints against the ads. That's one >of my major reasons for reading the magazines. Many people ask questions on >the net about what's available and guess where the answers are? > >Who cares if one is thicker because of ads. They all cost about the same. > >Shirley Kehr You'll tire of McUser soon enough. The same product reviews every month and they've even lost Shapiro. I'm letting mu subsciption lapse
chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (10/27/88)
>My biggest complaint about all the Mac mags is their glacial >time to market. Their reviews and news seem to run 4-6 months >behind what I see on the Net and in MacWeek. Well, that's because they won't publish anything until after they see what we say about it on the net.... Seriously, production on a magazine like MacUser will run about three months or so. There are major delays in things like printing, distribution, mailing, etc, etc. Mac Horizons had much better than average publishing schedules, and I still couldn't see the stuff I wrote for 60-90 days. We were smaller and therefore a lot more flexible. Until you get into publishing this stuff, the delays seem unreal. Once you've done it, the delays are never enough to get the last parts of the job done.... MacWeek gets around the delays in a number of ways: o not all their stuff is timely -- they have a lot of material pre-written and likely pre-printed. Then the new material is printed and the two parts collated together for mailing. o paying for priority access to the presses. Or perhaps buying exclusive access and leasing out dead time. o paying the more expensive newspaper or first class rates for mail. It's expensive to publish something like that -- a lot more expensive per copy than MacUser would be in the same format to the same reader population. But advertisers will pay a premium in per-reader ad rates to get in a publication like MacWeek (for good reason. The population that *reads* MacWeek is the one they really want. That wasn't really true of the late, unlamented Macintosh Today....) Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ Editor/Publisher, OtherRealms