t-stephp@microsoft.UUCP (Stephen Poole) (10/18/88)
I installed system 6.0.2 on my Mac II yesterday. I initially used the Installer program to install the minimal Mac II/IIx system. Things seemed to work under this, but the normally multihued Apple (as in the menu title) was solid black. Installation by dragging the System folder cured this problem. Any ideas as to what's going on? -- -- Stephen D. Poole -- t-stephp@microsoft.UUCP -- Mac II Fanatic -- -- -- -- I'm just an Oregon Tech Software Engineering co-op at Micro- -- -- soft. Believe me, nobody here pays attention to my opinions! --
mystone@caen.engin.umich.edu (Dean Yu) (10/18/88)
In article <1052@microsoft.UUCP>, t-stephp@microsoft.UUCP (Stephen Poole) writes: > I installed system 6.0.2 on my Mac II yesterday. I initially used the > Installer program to install the minimal Mac II/IIx system. Things seemed > to work under this, but the normally multihued Apple (as in the menu title) > was solid black. Installation by dragging the System folder cured this > problem. Any ideas as to what's going on? > My guess is that the FOND for the Chicago font got messed up somehow. (this reply was too short for a signature block.)
suitti@haddock.ima.isc.com (Steve Uitti) (10/19/88)
In article <1052@microsoft.UUCP> t-stephp@microsoft.UUCP (Stephen Poole) writes: >I installed system 6.0.2 on my Mac II yesterday. I initially used the >Installer program to install the minimal Mac II/IIx system. Things seemed >to work under this, but the normally multihued Apple (as in the menu title) >was solid black. Installation by dragging the System folder cured this >problem. Any ideas as to what's going on? >-- Stephen D. Poole -- t-stephp@microsoft.UUCP -- Mac II Fanatic -- About a month ago, I upgraded to system 6.0 on my Mac II. A friend upgraded his SE to 6.0 at about the same time. We both used to the installer to do the upgrade. My friend found 6.0 so buggy that he reverted to 5.4 (or whatever his previous system was). This was now newly just as buggy. He solved his problems by erasing his hard disk and installing 5.4 from scratch. (By doing selective restores, he cleaned up all sorts of cruft on his hard disk at the same time). I upgraded to 6.0 and found it buggy. I too erased my hard disk and did a system install from scratch (but installed 6.0). The result was very usable. (I restored everything as I have twice as much disk, doing a clean up later). Since then I have run into a few bugs. Sometimes I'll insert a floppy, and it won't show up on the desktop. Command-e (eject) works (but not from the menu), putting the disk on the desktop. I can then insert the disk again, and everything is fine. The moral of the story is that the installer is broken. Damn shame. It is very convenient. Sometimes a folder refuses to believe that all the stuff in it is visible (the scroll bars think there's more to it). Closing the folder (sometimes rebooting) will generally fix this. Map is (nearly) useless. It will let you set your timezone in the PRAM. Having this set to Greenwhich has never bothered me in the past. Having played with it, I've ditched it. MacroMaker is brain dead. It breaks things, slows things down unbearably, and some macros only work until next reboot (like the trick for alphabetizing icons in a folder). Maybe I'm missing something. Having played with it, I've ditched it. None of my F keys ALWAYS work. Sometimes they crash the system. I can't seem to get key bindings to them to work right. I used to use Switch-A-Roo, blast-key, and 68020 cache. 68020 cache may still work, but I don't seem to need to turn off that cache ever (doing so has never caused something that is broken to work for me). Still, fish! works. That's something. I now invariably use Multifinder, rather than only when I have to (LSC debugger). Booting with the command key now and then to get the single finder is easier than Set Startup all the time. One day, I'll get System 6.02 and see what bugs were fixed (but I may have to come down with the flu again for two weeks to try it out - I'm not looking forward to it). Installing things has been one of my favorite pastimes. This is probably because, when it comes down to it, I don't have any real problems to solve (not really true). I've never seen an installation system that worked. Come to think of it, I don't recall seeing a nontrivial bug free program of any kind. One would think that this makes me a good Beta test site. Stephen.
kucharsk@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (William Kucharski) (10/19/88)
In article <1052@microsoft.UUCP> t-stephp@microsoft.UUCP (Stephen Poole) writes: >I installed system 6.0.2 on my Mac II yesterday. I initially used the >Installer program to install the minimal Mac II/IIx system. Things seemed >to work under this, but the normally multihued Apple (as in the menu title) >was solid black. Installation by dragging the System folder cured this >problem. Any ideas as to what's going on? >-- >-- Stephen D. Poole -- t-stephp@microsoft.UUCP -- Mac II Fanatic -- What usually happens is that the _Minimal_ II/IIx installation assumes just that - a mimimum system, probably B&W. I haven't looked into it any deeper than that, as far as tearing apart the Installer scripts. All I know is the solution to this problem is to use the Installer on the System Tools disk with the "normal" installer scripts, not the "Minimum" scripts. I had the same problem with System 6.0. If I used the Installer and the "Minimum II" script, I got a black apple. If I used the regular Installer script for the II on the System Tools disk - no problem. -- William Kucharski ARPA: kucharsk@uts.amdahl.com UUCP: ...!{ames,decwrl,sun,uunet}!amdahl!kucharsk Disclaimer: The opinions expressed above are my own, and may not agree with those of any other sentient being, not to mention those of my employer.
kehr@felix.UUCP (Shirley Kehr) (10/20/88)
In article <9601@haddock.ima.isc.com> suitti@haddock.ima.isc.com (Steve Uitti) writes: > About a month ago, I upgraded to system 6.0 on my Mac II. A >friend upgraded his SE to 6.0 at about the same time. We both used to >the installer to do the upgrade. > My friend found 6.0 so buggy that he reverted to 5.4 (or >whatever his previous system was). This was now newly just as buggy. >He solved his problems by erasing his hard disk and installing 5.4 >from scratch. (By doing selective restores, he cleaned up all sorts >of cruft on his hard disk at the same time). > > The moral of the story is that the installer is broken. Damn >shame. It is very convenient. > Thanks for the information. That explains why I couldn't revert to System 5.0 at home (on an upgraded 512 that couldn't handle System 6.0). But instead of erasing the entire hard disk, I just trashed the hybrid system I got by attempting to use System 5.0's installer on top of System 6.0. I guess you programmers have a whole arsenal of tricks to find bugs us ordinary users can't see (I'm not complaining!). I'm still using the original System 6.0 on a Mac II at work without problem one that I can attribute to the system. (Now trying to run Word and Canvas together and moving lots of windows around too fast is another story. My mini demos of multifinder's capabilities always crash in front of prospective owners, but I attribute that to Word's inability to deal outside the first megabyte of memory.) > MacroMaker is brain dead. It breaks things, slows things down >unbearably, and some macros only work until next reboot (like the >trick for alphabetizing icons in a folder). Maybe I'm missing >something. Having played with it, I've ditched it. MacroMaker did not run one of my "creations" (can't remember what it was), but I was super-impressed when I could combine QuickKeys definitions (menu choices and aliases) into a longer string using MacroMaker. I used MacroMaker to set up the nice quotes (which is the purpose of QuickKeys alias function, but I just hadn't done it yet). I used to put Word's TOC code in by pressing a function key that asked for the name of the glossary item. Then I had to type the name (e.g., toc1, toc2, etc.) and press Return. MacroMaker positions me at the beginning of the line, then uses the QuickKey that prompts for glossary name, and types the name for me. Itwas a lot easier to just click "record" and do this sequence of events than to figure out how to string together a bunch of QuickKey definitions into a string. Maybe I just don't expect software to do as much as you do. It's all magic to me and I'm delighted with what I can do today in comparison to the NBI word processor I used to work with (8-inch single-sided floppies - not even proportional spacing, let alone different font sizes and types, slow daisy wheel printer, etc. - only about a year ago). Shirley Kehr
ngg@bridge2.3Com.Com (Norman Goodger) (10/21/88)
In article <1052@microsoft.UUCP>, t-stephp@microsoft.UUCP (Stephen Poole) writes: > I installed system 6.0.2 on my Mac II yesterday. I initially used the > Installer program to install the minimal Mac II/IIx system. Things seemed > to work under this, but the normally multihued Apple (as in the menu title) > was solid black. Installation by dragging the System folder cured this > problem. Any ideas as to what's going on? > -- Stephen D. Poole -- t-stephp@microsoft.UUCP -- Mac II Fanatic -- Stephen, all you needed to do to solve the problem of the lack of color was to open the control panel, and select the monitors CDEV and switch from B&W to color, or drop from 16 or 256 to 2 colors and switch back and the problem would have been gone. Sometimes you may notice that the Mac icon in the welcome to Macintosh is not in color either, this fixes that also. line fodder -- Norm Goodger SysOp - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862 3Com Corp. Co-Sysop FreeSoft RT - GEnie. Enterprise Systems Division
alexis@ccnysci.UUCP (Alexis Rosen) (10/22/88)
In article <65200@felix.uucp> kehr@felix.uucp (Shirley Kehr) writes: >In article <9601@haddock.ima.isc.com> suitti@haddock.ima.isc.com (Steve Uitti) writes: >> The moral of the story is that the installer is broken. Damn >>shame. It is very convenient. >> >Thanks for the information. That explains why I couldn't revert to system 5.0 >at home (on an upgraded 512 that couldn't handle system 6.0). But instead of >erasing the entire hard disk, I just trashed the hybrid system I got by >attempting to use system 5.0's installer on top of system 6.0. This is really a shot in the dark, but I wonder if the new boot blocks format is giving you grief here. When you install 6.0 with the installer, it writes new boot blocks to the disk. So your disk had new boot blocks. Reinstalling the old 5.0 might not have reverted the boot blocks, since I don't think that they were part of the installation script until 6.0 (but I could be mistaken). If so, you were running a 5.0 machine with 6.0 boot blocks, which may or may not cause problems (I don't know what's in the new BBs, but they can contain executable code. Damn. That's another place for a virus to hide...) When you copy a blessed (i.e., system) folder to a disk, it also copies that system's boot blocks to the destination disk. That's why copying a 5.0 system onto your drive cured the problem, I think. ---- Alexis Rosen alexis@dasys1.UUCP or alexis@ccnysci.UUCP Writing from {allegra,philabs,cmcl2}!phri\ The Big Electric Cat uunet!dasys1!alexis Public UNIX {portal,well,sun}!hoptoad/
suitti@haddock.ima.isc.com (Steve Uitti) (10/22/88)
In article <65200@felix.UUCP> kehr@felix.UUCP (Shirley Kehr) writes: >In article <9601@haddock.ima.isc.com> suitti@haddock.ima.isc.com (Stephen Uitti) writes: >> About a month ago, I upgraded to system 6.0 on my Mac II. A >>friend upgraded his SE to 6.0 at about the same time. We both used to >>the installer to do the upgrade. >> My friend found 6.0 so buggy that he reverted... >> The moral of the story is that the installer is broken. >Thanks for the information. That explains why I couldn't revert... >But instead of erasing the entire hard disk, I just trashed the >hybrid system I got by attempting to use System 5.0's installer >on top of System 6.0. I tried various things along those line. The 5.4 (i thing) installer wouldn't make a correct system. The OS wouldn't let me get rid of the old system. None of the other tricks worked. >I guess you programmers have a whole arsenal of tricks to find >bugs us ordinary users can't see (I'm not complaining!). I was acting as a naive user. Selective incompetence is one such powerful tool. "you programmers" may not apply to me. >I'm still using the original System 6.0 on a Mac II at work >without problem one that I can attribute to the system. My first few weeks showed 6.0 to be fine. It was only when I had time to really play with it that it showed its true colors (sometimes black and white on my color monitor). >(Now trying to run Word and Canvas together and moving lots of windows around >too fast is another story. My mini demos of multifinder's capabilities always >crash in front of prospective owners, but I attribute that to Word's inability >to deal outside the first megabyte of memory.) Word is such a pain. On the one hand there is some huge gaping hole with EVERY feature it has. On the other hand, there exists a work around for each of these bugs. On the third hand (I'm running out of hands), I don't know of another word processor that covers the same ground (for what I paid for for Word). Inattention to detail (the character kerning was fixed in 3.02, but still isn't quite right), poor error checking, poor error recovery, odd (undocumented) requirements for the use of some features (in 3.02, when you do double column text, put the ending section marker in AFTER setting up the section, not before, then use negative offsets to get it to look the way you really want it), etc., just make life miserable. >> MacroMaker is brain dead. >MacroMaker did not run one of my "creations" (can't remember what it was), >but I was super-impressed when I could combine QuickKeys definitions (menu >choices and aliases) into a longer string using MacroMaker. I used MacroMaker >to set up the nice quotes (which is the purpose of QuickKeys alias function, >but I just hadn't done it yet). I don't use QuickKeys. I did look at it once to see if I'd like it. It is possible that I would have done the work to make MacroMaker work (find the work arounds), if I was the type of person who uses (and likes) that sort of thing. My early experiments failed miserably, and were so discouraging. No "put it through its paces" here, I just tried to use it. >Maybe I just don't expect software to do as much as you do. I want software to behave this way: either do stuff correctly, and THE SAME each time, or tell you it won't. Predictability is paramount. >It's all magic to me and I'm delighted with what I can do today in >comparison to the NBI word processor I used to work with (8-inch >single-sided floppies - not even proportional spacing, let alone >different font sizes and types, slow daisy wheel printer, etc. - only >about a year ago). It's magic to me, even (especially?) when I've written it. However, when things were simpler, things tended to be more predictable. I'm not saying that this was better (it isn't). I'm saying, "before we move on, we have to fix what we have". That's why I erased my hard disk and started from scratch. I figured it couldn't be this bad, they would never have released it. By starting from the begining, I was emulating the Beta testers. It worked for them. >Shirley Kehr Stephen Uitti
t-stephp@microsoft.UUCP (Stephen Poole) (10/24/88)
In article <138@bridge2.3Com.Com> ngg@bridge2.3Com.Com (Norman Goodger) writes: >was to open the control panel, and select the monitors CDEV and switch >from B&W to color, or drop from 16 or 256 to 2 colors and switch back and >Norm Goodger SysOp - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862 Actually, I'm pretty sure I used Switcheroo to change to b/w <-> 256 in the hopes that it would fix it. On the other hand, I have Switcheroo configured to change to b/w/grays 2 colors rather than color 2 colors... would that affect it? I'll have to play around with it tonight and see what I can come up with. BTW, do you have an explanation for this disconcerting anomaly? Thanks. -- -- Stephen D. Poole -- t-stephp@microsoft.UUCP -- Mac II Fanatic -- -- -- -- I'm just an Oregon Tech Software Engineering co-op at Micro- -- -- soft. Believe me, nobody here pays attention to my opinions! --
hoofb@psu-cs.UUCP (Bruce Hoof) (10/25/88)
In article <65200@felix.UUCP> kehr@felix.UUCP (Shirley Kehr) writes: >In article <9601@haddock.ima.isc.com> suitti@haddock.ima.isc.com (Steve Uitti) writes: >> About a month ago, I upgraded to system 6.0 on my Mac II. A >>friend upgraded his SE to 6.0 at about the same time. We both used to >>the installer to do the upgrade. >> My friend found 6.0 so buggy that he reverted to 5.4 (or >>whatever his previous system was). This was now newly just as buggy. >>He solved his problems by erasing his hard disk and installing 5.4 >>from scratch. (By doing selective restores, he cleaned up all sorts >>of cruft on his hard disk at the same time). >> >> The moral of the story is that the installer is broken. Damn >>shame. It is very convenient. >> >Thanks for the information. That explains why I couldn't revert to System 5.0 >at home (on an upgraded 512 that couldn't handle System 6.0). But instead of >erasing the entire hard disk, I just trashed the hybrid system I got by >attempting to use System 5.0's installer on top of System 6.0. I had the same problem. I started out with System 5.0 and when I got my hands on a copy of 6.0.1 I used the installer. All of a sudden I was crashing left and right. The one that really bugged me was being in the finder and doing NOTHING and the program would bomb!. So I picked from my backups, Always keep backups on major changes, system 5.0 and its related stuff. More bombs!!. I got 6.0.2 and this time I removed all system files that I could find in my system folder. Then I used the installer for 6.0.2. It worked and I am happily running without crashes, except the ones I involke myself. So, from my experience if you are going to install the new system then junk all system files and install because the installer, while it makes life easier, is not perfect. Bruce Hoof -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ DISCLAIMER: I am not attached to any organization. I am just a poor student getting through school. Hopefully soon. -----------------------------+------------------------------------------------- Bruce Hoof | uunet \ hoofb@psu-cs (LOCAL) Computer Science Student | ucbvax }!tektronix!psu-cs!hoofb (UUCP) Portland State University CS | gatech / hoofb@cs.pdx.edu (CSNET) Portland Center for Advanced | ihnp4 / hoofb%cs.pdx.edu@relay.cs.net (ARPANET) -----------------------------+-------------------------------------------------
tecot@Apple.COM (Ed Tecot) (11/06/88)
In article <3f1e7350.129dc@blue.engin.umich.edu> mystone@caen.engin.umich.edu (Dean Yu) writes: >In article <1052@microsoft.UUCP>, t-stephp@microsoft.UUCP (Stephen Poole) writes: >> I installed system 6.0.2 on my Mac II yesterday. I initially used the >> Installer program to install the minimal Mac II/IIx system. Things seemed >> to work under this, but the normally multihued Apple (as in the menu title) >> was solid black. Installation by dragging the System folder cured this >> problem. Any ideas as to what's going on? >> > > My guess is that the FOND for the Chicago font got messed up somehow. No, that's not it. The minimal scripts attempt to conserve disk space by installing the minimal system needed for a particular CPU. Since the color apple is considered a frill, it is not installed by this script. If you are installing on a hard disk, you probably want to use the normal scripts, not the minimal ones. _emt