ralph@computing-maths.cardiff.ac.uk (Ralph Martin) (07/05/88)
Ive just got Symantec Utilities for the Macintosh, and it looks pretty good on the whole. However, it seems to clash badly with SFVol INIT 1.1 - when both are in the system folder at boot up time, my Mac II crashes. Would anyone care to comment on this? Ralph
gillies@p.cs.uiuc.edu (07/08/88)
>Ive just got Symantec Utilities for the Macintosh, and it looks pretty good >on the whole. However, it seems to clash badly with SFVol INIT 1.1 - when both >are in the system folder at boot up time, my Mac II crashes. Would anyone care >to comment on this? > >Ralph O.k., here goes: Why, that's a damn shame! Sorry that happened to you! (Sorry, couldn't resist). Don Gillies, Dept. of Computer Science, University of Illinois 1304 W. Springfield, Urbana, Ill 61801 ARPA: gillies@cs.uiuc.edu UUCP: {uunet,ihnp4,harvard}!uiucdcs!gillies
Fabian_Fabe_Ramirez@cup.portal.com.UUCP (07/11/88)
Ralph, I use SFVol INIT 1.1 on my Mac II at work and on my Mac Plus at home with no problems. Have you tried reinstalling your System software and a new copy of SFVol INIT 1.1. Fabian Ramirez fabian_fabe_ramirez@cup.portal.com sun!cup.portal.com!fabian_fabe_ramirez
leonardr@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu (07/13/88)
ralph@computing-maths.cardiff.ac.uk(Ralph) writes in comp.sys.mac >Ive just got Symantec Utilities for the Macintosh, and it looks pretty good >on the whole. However, it seems to clash badly with SFVol INIT 1.1 - when both >are in the system folder at boot up time, my Mac II crashes. Would anyone care >to comment on this? > I have talked with the author of SFVol INIT, Ray Lau, and he is not sure yet why there is an incompatability here. He seems to feel that the Shield INIT (which is the one what crashes, not SFVol) is making some assumptions that are not true after SFVol loads (trap adresses, maybe...) The current work around (tested with SFVol INIT 1.5, but should work with 1.1 too.) is to change the name of SFVolINIT to Vol INIT so that it loads after Shield, and not before. If you do this, things work fine and you have both of them running. FLAME ON** There seems to be a number of INIT now in the bitstream that require them to be loaded in a certain order in relation to others. I would just like to put up this little flame to INIT writers (hey I write them too, I can flame!!) that they don't do things that they shouldn't, so that we don't have to figure out which order to load things! FLAME OFF** +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ + + Any thing I say may be taken as + + Leonard Rosenthol + fact, then again you might decide+ + President, LazerWare, inc. + that it really isn't, so you + + + never know, do you?? + + leonardr@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu + + + GEnie: MACgician + MacNET: MACgician + + Delphi: MACgician + + + + + +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
steveg@squid.ucsb.edu (Steve Greenland) (07/16/88)
>ralph@computing-maths.cardiff.ac.uk(Ralph) writes in comp.sys.mac >>Ive just got Symantec Utilities for the Macintosh, and it looks pretty good >>on the whole. However, it seems to clash badly with SFVol INIT 1.1 - when both >>are in the system folder at boot up time, my Mac II crashes. Would anyone care >>to comment on this? Hmmm... I just got a Mac II, and got a Jasmine 45 Meg "inner Drive" (internal HD) than included the SUM software. The system that came on the disk was 4.3. I got rid of that, installed 6.0 (which came with the II), copied the Shield INIT to the system folder and rebooted. Crash City. I'm going to call Jasmine and Symantec one of these days, but haven't got around to it yet. So, has anybody gotten the Sys 6.0/Shield Combo to work??? The only inits in the sys folder were apples own, and the Jasmine HD interface init. steveg steveg@squid.ucsb.edu ...!ucbvax!hub!squid!steveg steveg@hub.ucsb.edu
LaserMan@cup.portal.com (07/17/88)
Steve Greenland writes... So, has anybody gotten the Sys 6.0/Shield Combo to work??? The only inits in the sys folder were apples own, and the Jasmine HD interface init. ********** I purchased SUM and have it running with Sys 6.0 with no problems. My only complaint is the time it takes to shut down. I assume it is because I have a 140meg internal drive and the desktop ot finder info is BIG. I have also had a problem with the partition DA and stoped using it. The drive I have is a Micah140i which has been flawless. Thanks Bob Murrow aka LaserMan@cup.portal.com
moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer) (07/17/88)
In article <675@hub.ucsb.edu> steveg@squid.ucsb.edu (Steve Greenland) writes: >So, has anybody gotten the Sys 6.0/Shield Combo to work??? Well, it's working well for me: got a Mac+, 2.5 MB Ram and a ton of INITs. Don't know if that's any help. "If you're going to do something tonight that you'll be sorry for in the morning, sleep late." -- Henny Youngman --- Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer INTERNET: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM Manual UUCP: {uw-beaver, sun, microsoft}!fluke!moriarty CREDO: You gotta be Cruel to be Kind... <*> DISCLAIMER: Do what you want with me, but leave my employers alone! <*>
isle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Ken Hancock) (07/18/88)
In article <46100184@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu> leonardr@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >FLAME ON** > There seems to be a number of INIT now in the bitstream that require them to >be loaded in a certain order in relation to others. I would just like to put up >this little flame to INIT writers (hey I write them too, I can flame!!) that >they don't do things that they shouldn't, so that we don't have to figure out >which order to load things! >FLAME OFF** AMEN! A good example is Moire. Moire has bombed out on me so many times unless I let it load first. Another thing I wish people would standardize is the keypress to prevent loading. I mean come on. Some want shift, some want option, some want command, and Remember? even wants the mouse button! If you're not going to standardize to the Shift key as I believe the majority have, then at least put in the documentation a way to modify it with resedit to make it standard. Since I've flamed Remember? already, let me compliment it. When you do hold the mouse button down to prevent loading, it comes up with it's icon with a slash through it. This is a wonderful idea. Font/DA Juggler does it also. How many of us have 8+ inits in our system folder and we don't want to load init xxx. If we could see the icons slashed through as they come up, we can load whichever we choose. Please INIT writers, try to let users know what's going on... * Shift key not to load (and resedit instructions to change it to any key) * Icon for loading using ShowINIT * Icon for not loading using modified ShowINIT * Don't assume. There's dozens of INITs out there. You have no way of knowing what's already been changed. Not everyone's INIT can load first. Ken Ken Hancock | UUCP: isle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu Personal Computing Ctr. Consultant | BITNET: isle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu __________________________________/ \____________________________________ DISCLAIMER: If people weren't so sue-happy, I wouldn't need one!
ack@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Andy J. Williams) (07/19/88)
In article <9340@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> isle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Ken Hancock) writes: >Please INIT writers, try to let users know what's going on... >* Shift key not to load (and resedit instructions to change it to any key) >* Icon for loading using ShowINIT >* Icon for not loading using modified ShowINIT >* Don't assume. There's dozens of INITs out there. You have no way > of knowing what's already been changed. Not everyone's INIT can load > first. Amen to that. As an aside, we are designing an INIT to register a person's name with a mail server upon startup. We ran into some problems and contacted some people who gave us some sound advice on writing INITS which includes: Don't put up any Dialogs at startup. Pictures are ok, ShowINIT type stuff is fine. Don't call InitWindows or InitDialogs. Preserve registers when the INIT is entered and restore them when you exit. What grafport are you passing to _InitGraf? Are you setting up your own? They also advise that the best way to learn about INITs is to walk through an INIT that you know works with TMON or MacsBug and see what they do. >Ken Hancock | UUCP: isle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu >Personal Computing Ctr. Consultant | BITNET: isle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu >__________________________________/ \____________________________________ >DISCLAIMER: If people weren't so sue-happy, I wouldn't need one! -Andy Andy J. Williams '90 |Ack Systems: ack@eleazar.dartmouth.edu| _ /| Software Development +--------------------------------------+ \`o_O' ACK! Kiewit Computation Ctr |Hello. Set $NAME='Iinigo Montoya' You | ( ) / Dartmouth College |kill -9 my process. Prepare to vi. | U
dumesny@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Alain Dumesny) (07/19/88)
Well concerning the HardDisk partition utility that comes with SUM which was VERY buggy, I called the company today telling them that I was testing the program for some of my customers and told them about the problems I had with this specific utility. They told me they have a bug fix for it, which they will send me soon. Hopefully that will fix the bugs...... Alain---
castan@munnari.oz (Jason Castan) (07/19/88)
My name is John Lim i am the author of Moire cdev. Ken Hancock was complaining about poorly written INITs : > > There seems to be a number of INIT now in the bitstream that require them to > >be loaded in a certain order in relation to others. I would just like to put up > >this little flame to INIT writers (hey I write them too, I can flame!!) that > >they don't do things that they shouldn't, so that we don't have to figure out > >which order to load things! > >FLAME OFF** > > AMEN! A good example is Moire. Moire has bombed out on me so many times > unless I let it load first. Another thing I wish people would standardize > I would like to complain that the problem is to do with Font/DA juggler and is not my fault. The problem is that Moire operates as a driver, and F/DA Juggler patches the open routine so that all DRVR files are patched to act as DAs presumably. So when Moire attempts to install itself, F/DA cuts Moire's throat behind Moire's back and its el crasho ! You will notice that most drivers that install themselves force you to reboot after installation to prevent such problems. As my driver is installed at runtime, that is not a soln. I put the blame on F/DA juggler (the same problem occurs with suitcase). > Ken Hancock | UUCP: isle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu > Personal Computing Ctr. Consultant | BITNET: isle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu > __________________________________/ \____________________________________ > DISCLAIMER: If people weren't so sue-happy, I wouldn't need one! Nevertheless if anyone has a good workaround to the suitcase/fda juggler problem, please let me know. I have tried using _open and _Opendeskacc to work around this problem but NO success. I must say that writing most INITs involve patching traps => dirty tricks. I dont think its really fair to blame anyone too much as such programs are really to be used at your own risk, even if they are commercial. Anyone interested in another INIT bug (that is patched in version 2.0, coming RSN) try using the File... transfer feature of QuicKeys under MF in the Finder program with the set startup dialog box open and Moire running. This will crash your system. QuicKeys is at fault here. If you have a dBoxProc as the front window, you shouldnt be allowed to transfer to another application. Therefore I have had to work around this problem. Moire 2.0 works in colour and does color animation. It works correctly with other clock programs like superclock, and the default clock is more intelligent about MF and color menubars. The about box is great in my opinion, but I wrote it :-> I just finished it 5 hours ago, and will let my testers brew out the last bugs for the next few weeks. john lim ps : this is a friend's a/c. castan@munnari.oz
jmunkki@santra.HUT.FI (Juri Munkki) (07/19/88)
In article <46100184@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu> leonardr@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >this little flame to INIT writers (hey I write them too, I can flame!!) that >they don't do things that they shouldn't, so that we don't have to figure out >which order to load things! I know at least one reason why some Inits do not work in a certain order. My MoNet-INIT requires that QuickDraw is initialized and that A5 points to the proper QD globals. Intermail seems to make some changes to this and therefore MoNet does not work, if it is loaded after Intermail. Since I remember reading that QD is always initialized at INIT time, I think the fault is in Intermail and that I shouldn't make any changes in the program in order to make it work in any order. An INIT should not make any unnecessary changes. If you have to patch some traps, ok feel free to do so, but leave A5 alone and try to conserve the state of most managers. I think that if an INIT works alone (with no other inits) and doesn't break any others (you have to figure which is breaking which), it should be ok. Juri Munkki jmunkki@santra.hut.fi jmunkki@fingate.bitnet
rdsesq@Jessica.stanford.edu (Rob Snevely) (08/31/88)
Maybe someone in netland knows this. I am running SUM with the latest HD Partition and Shield inits posted on the net. I seem to be having a problem with HD Partion. I have 28megs free on my HD but HD partition will not allow me to create a partition larger then 4megs. I am running System 6.0, Color Cursor, HierDA, suitcase, and Pyro!. Any idea why this is happening You can post to the net or send me e-mail. rdsesq@jessica.stanford.edu rdsesq%jessica.stanford.edu.BITNET@FORSYTHE Many thanx inadvance. Rob Snevely "If there is life after death will the be able to change a $20?" Woddy Allen
Mark_Peter_Cookson@cup.portal.com (09/02/88)
Oooh, bummer.... The problem is that SUM wants the free space to be contigious and will only creat a partition in contigious space. Not to mention that, the space has to be empty. You need to either backup your drive, format it and then copy all the stuff back, or get a utility (I can't remember its name) that will make your HD contigious again. The util from SUM is good, but not good enough, and I can't remember the one that does it. But it reads in like two or three files at a time and erases the space they were in and then copies them back so that they are contigious. This is what you need to do, but it takes about as long as backing up and restoring. If you have a tape backup, or access to a second HD larger than yours, use it! You might try using PowerUp and telling it to erase free space, that might let you make a bigger partition, but will not help you totaly.... Mark Cookson
dbw@crash.cts.com (David B. Whiteman) (09/02/88)
In response to the person who posted that he is having problems with SUM, updated with the update posted on the net. Surprise, the update to SUM posted on the net is not the lastet update; there is another update posted on CIS. I would repost it but I am having problems mailing the new update to the moderator.
fons@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (09/05/88)
Just a comment. The software for defragging a disk is from AlSoft called DiskExpress. It is $25 or so from Mac Connection. I have not used it but a friend who has a 20MB hard disk has and says it works like a champ.
lbaum@bcsaic.UUCP (Larry Baum) (09/06/88)
In article <20200002@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu> fons@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > >Just a comment. The software for defragging a disk is from AlSoft called >DiskExpress. It is $25 or so from Mac Connection. I have not used it but a >friend who has a 20MB hard disk has and says it works like a champ. Point of comparison. I just got my upgrade from MacZap to SUM and HD TuneUp seemed to work fine on my FX40. Furthermore, while Disk Express takes a long time to de-fragment the disk (from 10 to 20 min.), HD TuneUp took just a few seconds. It apparently worked too, because after using it I analyzed the disk with Disk Express and it said the fragmentation was less than 1%. LSB
Mark_Peter_Cookson@cup.portal.com (09/12/88)
The SUM utilities do OK, but they will not move locked files, the system file, and sometimes won't move other files (for unknown reasons). Disk Express will completely defragment even the most fragemented hard drive. Where as the SUM utility needs to have enough free room still left on the HD to move things. Therefore, if your HD is full, and very fragmented only Disk Express will help. And all my experiences have been closer to 1 to 4 hours with Disk Express, not even close to 20 minutes, but then fragemtation was at its worst. Mark Cookson
prince@maui.cs.ucla.edu (11/16/88)
I just talked to a Customer Service Rep at Symantec, inquiring about my
upgrade from SUM 1.02 that I requested recently...
She said that they are sending out a mass mailing of the latest upgrade to
all SUM owners at the end of this month. (She sounded frazzled, so I didn't
press her for details.)
UCLA Computer Science Department
-- Larry 3413 Boelter Hall Los Angeles 90024 (213) 825-2145
Prince UUCP: {ucbvax,sdcrdcf}!ucla-cs!prince
ARPAnet: prince@CS.UCLA.EDU