[comp.sys.mac] Transferring Files between Macs over AppleTalk: possible?

gsbrob1@apcvxa.uchicago.edu (11/15/88)

There's a fellow here who has bought a new Mac with an internal hard disk and
he wants to transfer files from his old Mac, which also has an internal hard
disk.  He wants to move the files from the old HD to the new one. Short of
actually swapping HD's, he wants to know if there's any way to do this without
transferring the files to another medium, such as floppies.  Specifically he
wanted to know if it were possible to just send the files over AppleTalk.  Does
any PD program exist which will do this?  Or is there another way?

Robert 
*****************************
gsbrob1@apcvxa.uchicago.edu
ra_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu

  ............................................................................
  . generic disclaimer:  all opinions here expressed are mine and mine alone .
  ............................................................................

earleh@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Earle R. Horton) (11/16/88)

In article <782@tank.uchicago.edu> gsbrob1@apcvxa.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>There's a fellow here who has bought a new Mac with an internal hard disk and
>he wants to transfer files from his old Mac, which also has an internal hard
>disk.  He wants to move the files from the old HD to the new one. Short of
>actually swapping HD's, he wants to know if there's any way to do this without
>transferring the files to another medium, such as floppies.  Specifically he
>wanted to know if it were possible to just send the files over AppleTalk.  Does
>any PD program exist which will do this?  Or is there another way?
>
Several methods exist which I know of, and probably several more of
which I am unaware.  If you have a serial terminal emulator, such as
MacTerminal, VersaTerm, or FreeTerm, which supports one of the binary
Macintosh file transfer protocols, then you can connect the two Macs
together using a "Mac-to-Mac" cable and send the files that way.  Set
the communications speed to the fastest one the program is capable of.
I believe FreeTerm allows 56700 baud, but I have not tried this.
Newer versions of VersaTerm allow one to send all the files in a
folder when doing uploads, and probably other programs exist with this
feature.  The serial method would be slower than AppleTalk, but if you
can transfer a whole folder at once, then the transfer can take place
while you eat lunch, or sleep.

MacKermit, which is PD, can also be used to transfer files from Mac to
Mac, and is capable of batch operation, but it does not handle most
Macintosh file types well.  Its chief utility is for transfering files
which are all of the same "type," e.g. a whole folder full of text
files.  Specifically, any "one-fork" file can be transferred using
MacKermit, but if the type is not 'TEXT' then you have to manually set
the type at the destination.  Hint:  Convert the files to Stuffit or
Tar archives before transferring, then de-archive at the destination
Mac.

The preferred method around here requires that you be able to borrow a
tape drive:  Just copy all the files to a tape, which you read back
into the second Mac.  Experience indicates to me that this is the
fastest method, and you get a backup of all your files if you elect to
keep the tape when you are done.

The floppy method is definitely the most cumbersome to use, but don't
sell it short.  If you keep the floppies, and store them in a safe
place when you are done, then you get a backup of your files which you
can use at any time.  Assuming you are forced to use floppies, then
there are programs which can reduce the time you spend transfering
files, by compressing the files for you.  MacCompress is a PD program
which can be used to compress all the files on a hard disk, then
decompress when you have the files moved to the new disk.  It restores
all Macintosh file attributes.  Typical compression ratios are very
roughly 50%, but some files compress a lot more (or a lot less) than
this.

A PD, ShareWare, or cheap Mac-to-Mac file fransfer program using
AppleTalk sounds like it would be a hot item.  I am surprised no one
has written one yet.  (Or maybe someone has.)
Earle R. Horton. 23 Fletcher Circle, Hanover, NH 03755
(603) 643-4109
Sorry, no fancy stuff, since this program limits my .signature to three

jeff@drexel.UUCP (Jeff White) (11/17/88)

In article <782@tank.uchicago.edu>, gsbrob1@apcvxa.uchicago.edu writes:
> 
> There's a fellow here who has bought a new Mac with an internal hard disk and
> he wants to transfer files from his old Mac, which also has an internal hard
> disk.  He wants to move the files from the old HD to the new one. Short of
> actually swapping HD's, he wants to know if there's any way to do this without
> transferring the files to another medium, such as floppies.  Specifically he
> wanted to know if it were possible to just send the files over AppleTalk.  
> Does any PD program exist which will do this?  Or is there another way?
> 

  Someone already mentioned using a direct connection with file transfer
programs.  My thought would be to either find programs that can automatically 
transfer a number of files (of folders), or else to use some archive program
(Stuffit?) to come all your files into one, send that file, and then de-archive
on the new system.
  As far as Appletalk goes, I would think that would want a package that
supported each Mac as peers, not a standard client/server.  Programs like
MacServe (and maybe AppleShare) require you to dedicate a Mac to be the server
(no problem), but at least with MacServe, they create their onw server
partition which can't access Mac files already on the Desktop.  Tops is the
only package I know where the installation is easy (just install a DA and 
autobootup code) and allows total compatibility with all the Mac files you
already have.  If all you want to do is this file transfer, I don't think
the (~$200 software + $25 Appletalk) x 2 is a realistic price to pay.

						Jeff White
						Drexel University - ECE Dept.
						rutgers!bpa!drexel!jeff

mfi@beach.cis.ufl.edu (Mark Interrante) (11/18/88)

In article <782@tank.uchicago.edu> gsbrob1@apcvxa.uchicago.edu writes:
>Specifically he
>wanted to know if it were possible to just send the files over AppleTalk. Does
>any PD program exist which will do this?  Or is there another way?

I just  recieved version of 2.2 of NCSA telnet.  It seems to work over
appletalk or ethernet.  Does someone in the know , know if two machines
running telnet will solve the file transfer problem?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Interrante   		Software Engineering Research Center
mfi@beach.cis.ufl.edu		CIS Department, University of Florida 32611
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Imagine what it would be like if TV actually were good. It would be the end
 of everything we know."  Marvin Minsky

earleh@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Earle R. Horton) (11/18/88)

In article <19235@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> mfi@beach.cis.ufl.edu () writes:
>I just  recieved version of 2.2 of NCSA telnet.  It seems to work over
>appletalk or ethernet.  Does someone in the know , know if two machines
>running telnet will solve the file transfer problem?

     The problem with this program is that it does not allow the
Macintosh end of the program to initiate ftp transfers.  You must
start up ftp from a system with a command line user interface, then
ftp to the Mac.  From this point, all transfers are implemented by
entering a command to the ftp running on the non-Macintosh host.

     However, the source code for NCSA Telnet is available, so maybe
someday an enterprising programmer will put in the code necessary for
Mac-to-Mac ftp.

Earle R. Horton. 23 Fletcher Circle, Hanover, NH 03755
(603) 643-4109
Sorry, no fancy stuff, since this program limits my .signature to three

her3@tank.uchicago.edu (Ben 'Drew' Herman) (11/19/88)

In article <10980@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> earleh@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Earle R. Horton) writes:
>In article <19235@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> mfi@beach.cis.ufl.edu () writes:
>>I just  recieved version of 2.2 of NCSA telnet.  It seems to work over
>>appletalk or ethernet.  Does someone in the know , know if two machines
>>running telnet will solve the file transfer problem?
>
>     The problem with this program is that it does not allow the
>Macintosh end of the program to initiate ftp transfers.  You must
>start up ftp from a system with a command line user interface, then
>ftp to the Mac.  From this point, all transfers are implemented by
>entering a command to the ftp running on the non-Macintosh host.
>
 I'm not really sure on this point But.....
Since NCSA telnet Dynamically assigns IP numbers couldn't you 
start NCSA telnet on two machines
  find out what one machines IP is
then , open a connection to that IP?????

Yeah your right, there's probably no way in hell that would work....
but I'll try it this weekend any way.....

Ben


-- 
Internet: her3@tank.uchicago.edu  or ben@rover.uchicago.edu
BITNET:   her3@tank.uchicago.bitnet
UUCP:    {ihnp4!gargoyle,oddjob}!tank!her3   (this undoubtedly nolonger works )

edmoy@violet.berkeley.edu (11/19/88)

In article <19235@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> mfi@beach.cis.ufl.edu () writes:
>In article <782@tank.uchicago.edu> gsbrob1@apcvxa.uchicago.edu writes:
>>Specifically he
>>wanted to know if it were possible to just send the files over AppleTalk. Does
>>any PD program exist which will do this?  Or is there another way?
>
>I just  recieved version of 2.2 of NCSA telnet.  It seems to work over
>appletalk or ethernet.  Does someone in the know , know if two machines
>running telnet will solve the file transfer problem?

NCSA Telnet is a great program if you don't mind a few slips in the user
interface, like the scrollbars being positioned 1 pixel off, or the insertion
bar appearing on the gray desktop.  Anyways, for all its good points, it
does have one major weakness; it only acts as an ftp server and can not
initiate ftp as a pier.  This means that you can't transfer files between
two machines with telnet, because they both act as servers, and there is not
way to initiate an ftp session from within NCSA telnet.

Edward Moy				Principal Programmer - Macintosh & Unix
Workstation Support Services		Workstation Software Support Group
University of California
Berkeley, CA  94720

edmoy@violet.Berkeley.EDU
ucbvax!violet!edmoy

magnus@ikaros.cs.umu.se (11/21/88)

In article <832@tank.uchicago.edu> her3@tank.uchicago.edu.UUCP (Ben 'Drew' Herman) writes:
> I'm not really sure on this point But.....
>Since NCSA telnet Dynamically assigns IP numbers couldn't you 
>start NCSA telnet on two machines
>  find out what one machines IP is
>then , open a connection to that IP?????
>

Unfortunately (?) this won't work. This would need some kind of prompt-based
interpreter at the other end to process your requests. Actually, NCSA Telnet
supports this, but only when running ftp from another machine. This means that
you CAN use NCSA Telnet to send files over AppleTalk, but you will have
to use another machine in between (AND also binhex the files, since ftp
(naturally) only sends the data fork of the mac file).

There's another point to this also: if you're running NCSA Telnet, and your
hard disk suddenly starts spinning, that's probably somebody taking a look at
your files...! (Hey! Where's the file protection? :-) )

Then, one wonders, hasn't anybody done ftp for the mac??? "ftp DA", yessss,
that one I would like to see next time I pull down my apple!

---
Magnus Astrom, Dept. of Info. Proc., Univ. of Umea, S-90187 Umea, Sweden
Internet: magnus@cs.umu.se
UUCP:     ...!mcvax!enea!umecs!magnus

magnus@ikaros.cs.umu.se (11/21/88)

In article 3010 of comp.sys.mac, I wrote:
> you CAN use NCSA Telnet to send files over AppleTalk, but you will have
> to use another machine in between (AND also binhex the files, since ftp
> (naturally) only sends the data fork of the mac file).

OOPS! I forgot that there now is a MacBinary feature in NCSA Telnet 2.2
that, when using ftp with the binary option, both forks are sent, so you
won't have to use BinHex.. but still, you have to use that other machine. 

---
Magnus Astrom, Dept. of Info. Proc., Univ. of Umea, S-90187 Umea, Sweden
Internet: magnus@cs.umu.se
UUCP:     ...!mcvax!enea!umecs!magnus