janin@tybalt.caltech.edu (Adam L. Janin) (11/18/88)
Has anyone used the Programmer's Extender? I'm interested in increasing application production time, and it seems to be a good choice. I currently use MPW C and I am considering changing to LightSpeed C. Also, APDA lists the price of Programmer's Extender Volume 1 and 2 at about $100 each, and the cost of the Profesional version, which includes both, is ~$310. What else is included in the Pro version? Thanks, Adam Janin janin@csvax.caltech.edu
u2dj@vax5.CIT.CORNELL.EDU (11/19/88)
In article <8617@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu> janin@tybalt.caltech.edu (Adam L. Janin) writes: > >Has anyone used the Programmer's Extender? I'm interested in increasing >application production time, and it seems to be a good choice. I currently >use MPW C and I am considering changing to LightSpeed C. > >Also, APDA lists the price of Programmer's Extender Volume 1 and 2 at >about $100 each, and the cost of the Profesional version, which includes >both, is ~$310. What else is included in the Pro version? > I bought Programmer's Extender about 1 year ago and was disappointed as soon as I started using it. At first, I thought some of the problems I was having were my own ignorance of the Mac innerds, but as time went on I found more and moere bugs in their code. Some of these cost me a lot of time to track down, and in retrospect, it would have taken me less time to start from scratch. I had Vol. 1&2, but I don't know what the Pro version contains. It wasn't around when I bought it. Now, this was a year ago, and they may have fixed it up a lot since then, but I wonder if the concept of using a bunch of canned routines really works best. (MacApp is another story, being in a different league in my opinion). One problem is that not all of the source is provided, so if a bug or design flaw is in one of those procs., you have to go back a workaround it somehow. Another problem was there were so many units that were all interdependent that often after "USESing" the PE units there was little room left for your code. I would try to find example code from working applications. Many people on the net have been very gererous with providing examples of routines. Also, there is the Transskel stuff, but I don't know if it is up to date. I should mention that I was using the Pascal version of PE, its possible the C version is quite different. Hope this was some help... > Adam Janin > janin@csvax.caltech.edu Ron Beloin, u2dj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
nopuklic@ndsuvax.UUCP (Blayne Puklich) (11/20/88)
In article <8617@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu> janin@tybalt.caltech.edu (Adam L. Janin) writes: > >Has anyone used the Programmer's Extender? I'm interested in increasing >application production time, and it seems to be a good choice. I currently >use MPW C and I am considering changing to LightSpeed C. > >Also, APDA lists the price of Programmer's Extender Volume 1 and 2 at >about $100 each, and the cost of the Profesional version, which includes >both, is ~$310. What else is included in the Pro version? I'd also like to know more about the Programmer's Extender. However, I'd like to DECREASE application production time rather than increase it like Adam wants to... I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who has had experience with the Programmer's Extender. ||+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++|| || Blayne Puklich nopuklic@Plains.NoDak.EDU "I think I'm going || || NDSU Student ACM nopuklic@ndsuvax.BITNET bald..." || || Chairperson NU087763@NDSUVM1.BITNET -- Rush, from Caress || || North Dakota State University, Fargo, ND of Steel, 1975 || || || || "Everyone should have a Corvette, I think." || || || ||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
holland@m2.csc.ti.com (Fred Hollander) (11/22/88)
In article <17361@vax5.CIT.CORNELL.EDU> u2dj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (Ron Beloin) writes: >In article <8617@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu> janin@tybalt.caltech.edu (Adam L. Janin) writes: >> >>Has anyone used the Programmer's Extender? I'm interested in increasing >>application production time, and it seems to be a good choice. I currently >>use MPW C and I am considering changing to LightSpeed C. I haven't used it, yet, so I can't comment. We just ordered it. ... >I had Vol. 1&2, but I don't know what the Pro version contains. It >wasn't around when I bought it. The Pro version has 100% source included. >league in my opinion). One problem is that not all of the source is >provided, so if a bug or design flaw is in one of those procs., you >have to go back a workaround it somehow. Another problem was there (see above) Fred Hollander Computer Science Center Texas Instruments, Inc. holland%ti-csl@csnet-rela The above statements are my own and not representative of Texas Instruments.
leonardr@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu (11/22/88)
janin@tybalt.caltech.edu(Adam Janin) in comp.sys.mac >Has anyone used the Programmer's Extender? I'm interested in increasing >application production time, and it seems to be a good choice. I currently >use MPW C and I am considering changing to LightSpeed C. > >Also, APDA lists the price of Programmer's Extender Volume 1 and 2 at >about $100 each, and the cost of the Profesional version, which includes >both, is ~$310. What else is included in the Pro version? > Let me first preface this with a disclaimer - I am one of the authors of the Programmer's Extender, however, I am no longer affiliated with the company (other than personal). Of the 'Extender-like' products currently on the market today, I would recommend the Extender over the others for one basic reason - SOURCE CODE!! If purchased separately, Volumes1&2 contains about 85% source (95% for V1 and 75% for V2) while the Professional Version contains 100% source (which is one of the reasons for it's price!!) It is my opinion that any 'library' is useless without source code for two reasons. 1) Nothing ever works EXACTLY like you want it to, and without source (no matter how flexible!!) you can't make it work the way you want. 2) Once you 'outgrow' the library and start working on other projects that might need some of the 'features' of the 'library' you can always got back and snarf the code for your usage (provided you included the (C)). To me this is greatest benefit of the Programmer's Extender! I have also used MacExpress and FaceIt and still come back to the Extender when I need a 'quick powerful shell' for an application!! +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ + + Any thing I say may be taken as + + Leonard Rosenthol + fact, then again you might decide+ + President, LazerWare, inc. + that it really isn't, so you + + + never know, do you?? + + leonardr@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu + + + GEnie: MACgician + MacNET: MACgician + + Delphi: MACgician + + + + + +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
ferris@pixel.HAC.COM (Mark Ferris) (11/24/88)
In article <17361@vax5.CIT.CORNELL.EDU> u2dj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (Ron Beloin) writes: >of routines. Also, there is the Transskel stuff, but I don't know >if it is up to date. I should mention that I was using the Pascal Does anybody have the full Transskel package (Transskel, Transedit, Transwindow?, etc) including docs? It's been a couple years since I've seen it come across the net, and I wasn't involved in programming then, so I let it go by. Would somebody please email the package to me, or if enough interest, and I think there will be, please post. That is if Paul Dubois (the author) still gives his permission. Thanks, Mark Ferris ferris@tcville.hac.com Image and Signal Processing Lab ferris%tcville@hac2arpa.hac.com Hughes Aircraft Co., EDSG
rlz@astroatc.UUCP (Robert Ziegler) (11/29/88)
I bought Volumes I & II of the Programmer's Extender 18 months ago. The company sent me the source code a few months after my first purchase. Volume I had so many bugs that it was unusable without source. I've sent numerous bug reports and made half a dozen phone calls to the company over time. (The people are very nice there.) Volume II doesn't seem to have the bug problems that Volume I does. A year later, I bought the Professional version. The Professional Version contains Volumes I & II, plus all of the source code and documentation. None of the bugs had been fixed yet. Once you get the hang of the package, it's great in concept. It appears to be much more flexible than Transkel (although I've only played with Transkel for a few months). It's very convenient for throwing together a quick test program. If you're writing a monster program without a lot of Macintosh experience, it let's you concentrate more on your program, and less on the Macintosh itself. Unfortunately, you need the source code. If you buy it, check all the string routines for off by one errors. Check all the code for inappropriately unlocked handles. I don't remember any more bug areas, but I totally rewrote the text routines so scrolling worked correctly, gutted the event routines for multifinder compatability, and replaced all screen updating routines for both efficientcy and correctness. A number of the demo programs provided didn't work. They got caught by the same bugs you'll run into. Perhaps I was extra "lucky", but I spent the first 6 months getting my credit card billed every month from them for one product or another. It wasn't straightened out until I got the credit card company after them and threatened to cancel the card, representing many long distance phone calls. In fairness, this problem seemed to be an office clerical error that got confounded into a nightmare. All in all, the package is useful and nice. Volume II requires Volume I, and contains some useful list handling and bit map routines. But, BEWARE! You must have the source; and you must be prepared to debug their code.