rudolph@m.cs.uiuc.edu (01/22/89)
Where can I get info on the format of MSoft Word files? I'd like to write something to automatically number the lines which are part of the outline. Better yet, does anything already exist which does this? David Rudolph rudolph@m.cs.uiuc.edu University of Illinois
wb1j+@andrew.cmu.edu (William M. Bumgarner) (01/23/89)
> Where can I get info on the format of MSoft Word files?
You are going to have a very difficult time doing so-- You can try MicroSoft,
but it is doubtful that that will help. Give Aldus and Ashton-Tate a call--
both have worked with the Word format (PageMaker and FullWrite deal with
it), and they may have something they can send.
An example of the lock-up on formats that Microsoft has: For the publishers of
the, as yet unreleased, _Wingz_ spreadsheet package to be able to import
Excel 'sheets, they hired a hacker/guru to dissasemble Microsoft's code to
figure out the format of the Excel documents. They were able to do it, but
Microsoft never lifted a finger to help in any way...
b.bum
wb1j+_@andrew.cmu.edubill@ut-emx.UUCP (Bill Jefferys) (01/23/89)
In article <QXqfI=y00WA403wHRq@andrew.cmu.edu> wb1j+@andrew.cmu.edu (William M. Bumgarner) writes:
#> Where can I get info on the format of MSoft Word files?
#
#You are going to have a very difficult time doing so-- You can try MicroSoft,
#but it is doubtful that that will help. Give Aldus and Ashton-Tate a call--
#both have worked with the Word format (PageMaker and FullWrite deal with
#it), and they may have something they can send.
#
As I understand it, Microsoft considers their Word format
proprietary--they do give it to certain commercial developers,
but certainly with a non-disclosure agreement. I am quite
certain you won't get it from Aldus or Ashton-Tate.
Bill Jefferysbreek@byuvax.bitnet (01/24/89)
Have you looked at pages 246 & 247 of the Word manual? Lyle D. Gunderson (mere grad student)
stuartb@microsoft.UUCP (Stuart Burden) (01/25/89)
In article <QXqfI=y00WA403wHRq@andrew.cmu.edu> (William M. Bumgarner) writes: | You are going to have a very difficult time doing so-- You | can try MicroSoft, but it is doubtful that that will help. | Give Aldus and Ashton-Tate a call-- both have worked with | the Word format (PageMaker and FullWrite deal with it), | and they may have something they can send. Both Word and Excel binary formats are.. shall we say.. "evolving" formats, and are proprietary. Aldus nor Ashton-Tate will give out the binary formats as they would be under a NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement). | An example of the lock-up on formats that Microsoft has: | For the publishers of the, as yet unreleased, _Wingz_ | spreadsheet package to be able to import Excel 'sheets, | they hired a hacker/guru to dissasemble Microsoft's code | to figure out the format of the Excel documents. They | were able to do it, but Microsoft never lifted a finger to | help in any way... Hmm, well all I can say is good luck to them. I view it like this (personal view only here).. it would be like Apple saying to a clone company.. "Oh, you want to manufacture a Macintosh clone!.. Oh sure, let me just dig out the source to the ROMs for you, save you some development time" sheesh! :-) :-). That's the way the corporate world works mate. If there is a product that would benefit Word or Excel by being able to read thier binary formats, then I'm sure Microsoft would support that (under NDA of course) and has done so in the past (PageMaker is just one example). If anyone seriously wants the binary formats to Excel and Word, send a letter explaining your project and needs to: The Program Manager Microsoft Word for the Macintosh (or Microsoft Excel for the Macintosh) 16011 NE 36th Way. Redmond WA. 98073-9717 It is rare that these formats are releases however. A better alternative in the case of Word, might be the Rich Text (interchange) format. This is a published format and if you want a free copy of the spec, call customer service at (206) 882 8088 and ask them to send you the "Rich Text Format Specification" document. | b.bum wb1j+_@andrew.cmu.edu Hope this helps, Stu. __Paths to my door:_______________________ microsoft!stuartb@beaver.cs.washington.edu - Usual disclaimer, that all microsoft!stuartb@uw-beaver.arpa - the above is pure fantasy microsoft!stuartb@uunet.UU.NET - and Microsoft only [DE01HB]stuartb@DASNET# {from AppleLink} - gave me the Mountain Dew stuartb@microsoft.uucp {well connected} - to dream it all in a D2012 {@applelink.apple.com - shared acct} - caffeine haze :-) __________________________________________________________________________
kevin@kosman.UUCP (Kevin O'Gorman) (01/25/89)
In article <QXqfI=y00WA403wHRq@andrew.cmu.edu> wb1j+@andrew.cmu.edu (William M. Bumgarner) writes: >> Where can I get info on the format of MSoft Word files? > >You are going to have a very difficult time doing so-- You can try MicroSoft, >but it is doubtful that that will help. Give Aldus and Ashton-Tate a call-- >both have worked with the Word format (PageMaker and FullWrite deal with >it), and they may have something they can send. I'm not sure why you need this if you actually have MS Word. Word supports a format called RTF (Rich Text Format) which they are happy to document for you, and which can describe any Word document as a text file, without resorting to binary information for anything except pictures. Look in the Word documentation, and you will find the mailing address for getting this stuff from MS. I have a copy. It's pretty terse, about 20 pages, and needs more examples, but enough information seems to be there so that by saving some documents in RTF you can figure it out.
jackiw@cs.swarthmore.edu (Nick Jackiw) (01/26/89)
In article <347@microsoft.UUCP> stuartb@microsoft.UUCP (Stuart Burden) writes: [Opinion that it's damned unlikely anyone but Big Marketeers can ever hope to get their hands on any of Microsoft's file formats deleted.] > Hmm, well all I can say is good luck to them. I view it like this > (personal view only here).. it would be like Apple saying to a clone > company.. "Oh, you want to manufacture a Macintosh clone!.. Oh sure, let > me just dig out the source to the ROMs for you, save you some development > time" sheesh! :-) :-). > > That's the way the corporate world works mate. ^^^^^^^^^ according to Microsoft! Glad to have official confirmation that Microsoft isn't out to satisfy their customers, only to possess their souls. Not a flame on you, Stu, only your company and others like it. Just think how much nice cash those fools who invented ASCII could have made for themselves if only they'd thought to patent it! -Nick (And if you want to flame me about ASCII being designed as a cross-corporate standard, and not the product of a specific corp. or architecture, replace ASCII with EBCDIC (the old IBM equivalent) and re-read. IBM make catch a lot of flack in this group, but at least at times they seem to share many people's desires to advance the cause of computers in society and life, rather than just to suck dollars from them.) *** FLAME ON **** Owning Knowledge = Oligarchy = Fascism or Feudalism FREE KNOWLEDGE = FREE MINDS = FREE WORLD! Rah rah sis boom bah *** FLAME OFF *** -- +-------------------+-jackiw@cs.swarthmore.edu / !rutgers!bpa!swatsun!jackiw-+ | nicholas jackiw | jackiw%campus.swarthmore.edu@swarthmr.bitnet | +-------------------+-VGP/MathDept/Swarthmore College, Swarthmore, PA 19081--+ L.S./M. F. T. Jesus Saves Every 10 Minutes
u545731798ea@deneb.ucdavis.edu (Greg DeMichillie) (01/28/89)
In article <536@kosman.UUCP> kevin@kosman.UUCP (Root) writes: >In article <QXqfI=y00WA403wHRq@andrew.cmu.edu> wb1j+@andrew.cmu.edu (William M. Bumgarner) writes: >>> Where can I get info on the format of MSoft Word files? >> >I'm not sure why you need this if you actually have MS Word. Word supports >a format called RTF (Rich Text Format) which they are happy to document for >you, and which can describe any Word document as a text file, without >resorting to binary information for anything except pictures. > Ah, but being able to read/write RTF is not the same as being able to read/write native Word files. If someone sends me a file in Word 3 format and I want to open it, it doesn't do me a damn bit of good to be able to read RTF. I would have to have the person go back into Word and save the file again, this time in RTF. Microsoft could make life much easier by documenting the file format. I just can't see that they would lose tons of business or money buy simply documenting a file format. ----- Greg DeMichillie Apple Student Rep - UC Davis lgdemichillie@ucdavis.edu AppleLink: ST0178 Disclaimer: If you've seen one disclaimer, you've seen them all.
walt@plx.UUCP (Walt Novinger ) (01/31/89)
in article <536@kosman.UUCP>, kevin@kosman.UUCP (Kevin O'Gorman) says: > > I'm not sure why you need this if you actually have MS Word. Word supports > a format called RTF (Rich Text Format) which they are happy to document for I believe that RFT stands for "Revisable Text Format, a format invented by Big Blue :). ============================================================================== Walt Novinger | ...!sun!plx!walt | "Money is like a sixth Plexus Computers, Inc. | ...sun!sgi!sixwbn!walt | sense. Without it, the 3833 N. First Street | home (415) 964-9377 | other five are useless." San Jose, CA 95134 | work (408) 943-2406 | Montague (I think) ==============================================================================
denbeste@bgsuvax.UUCP (William C. DenBesten) (02/01/89)
> in article <536@kosman.UUCP>, kevin@kosman.UUCP (Kevin O'Gorman) says: > > I'm not sure why you need this if you actually have MS Word. Word supports > a format called RTF (Rich Text Format) which they are happy to document for From article <1682@plx.UUCP>, by walt@plx.UUCP (Walt Novinger ): > I believe that RFT stands for "Revisable Text Format, a format invented by > Big Blue :). RTF (Rich Text format) is a method of encoding word formats in plain ascii, developed by Microsoft. (Microsoft Word Reference Manual, page 313) DCA RFT (Document Contents Architecture - Revisable form text) is a method of storing files destined for later editing, devised by IBM and made for the IBM world. (I beleive that it is EBCDIC based.) Appendix F in my macintosh Word 3.0 manual describes converting between RFT and RTF formats. -- William C. DenBesten denbeste@bgsu.edu
bradn@tekig4.LEN.TEK.COM (Bradford Needham) (02/03/89)
The Word Format discussion brings a little story to mind. It's a true tale, but without the true names. Once upon a time, not too long ago, the WhizBang workstation company cooked up a network filesystem protocol. It was powerful, it was secure, but it was proprietary. Meanwhile, the BlindingLight workstation company cooked up a different protocol. It was public-domain. The folks at WhizBang scoffed at BlindingLight, believing that their own protocol would dominate the market because it was "better". As time passed, however, more and more workstations from more and more companies supported the BlindingLight protocol. WhizBang's protocol continued to be available only on WhizBang workstations. Eventually, even WhizBang grudgingly supported the BlindingLight protocol because it had become the de-facto standard. The moral here is that "proprietary standard" is an oxymoron. If you plan to dominate the market with a whiz-bang program, you had better give its file formats away to whoever asks for it. [In partial defense of Microsoft, it sounds like they do provide a publically-documented word processor data transfer format, the "Rich Text Format".] Brad Needham
stuartb@microsoft.UUCP (Stuart Burden) (02/06/89)
In article <3685@tekig4.LEN.TEK.COM> bradn@tekig4.LEN.TEK.COM (Bradford Needham) writes: [Story about WhizBang and BlindingLight deleted.. although enjoyed] | The moral here is that "proprietary standard" is an oxymoron. If you plan | to dominate the market with a whiz-bang program, you had better give its | file formats away to whoever asks for it. | Brad Needham On a purely personal level (said for the benifit of the purist thought police here, who don't give a hoot if I have a disclaimer or not)... I agree 100%. I'd love to see us put the Word binary format into the public arena. I think it would be a pain to maintain though (interpreting Fast Save is a real .. well lets not get nasty.. :-)). I agree that nothing becomes a standard in computing these days unless it is generally available for public consumption. If you want the binary format send me e-mail (or write to the address I posted before). I will make sure that it gets to the program manager for Word. Stu. __Paths to my door:_______________________ microsoft!stuartb@beaver.cs.washington.edu - Usual disclaimer, that all microsoft!stuartb@uw-beaver.arpa - the above is pure fantasy microsoft!stuartb@uunet.UU.NET - and Microsoft only [DE01HB]stuartb@DASNET# {from AppleLink} - gave me the Mountain Dew stuartb@microsoft.uucp {well connected} - to dream it all in a D2012 {@applelink.apple.com - shared acct} - caffeine haze :-) __________________________________________________________________________