dce@stan.UUCP (David Elliott) (02/06/89)
I have a lot of public domain and shareware software, and about 10% of the time, the programs crash my system (MacII). Is there any way to have the Mac go ahead and continue after this? -- David Elliott ...!pyramid!boulder!stan!dce
mark@sleepy.cs.unm.edu (Mark McLaughlin) (02/17/89)
Similar to David Elliot I too am having problems running most public domain programs on my Mac II. I have asked several people about this problem and have gotten several answers, none of which have worked. First I was told that I sould try removing any funny CDEVs or INITs I might have. I did this. Next I was told that I should run in B/W 2-bit mode. I did this also. Then I was told that I might not have enough memory. I now have 5MB. I have also upgraded to System 6.0.2 (finally). None of the above helped. (Also I am not running MultiFinder.) Note that any program that crashes does so no matter what I do and any program that doesn't will run in color with all my CDEVs and INITs in 1MB of memory under System 5.0. The most common error I have gotten is ID=01, but I have also gotten errors ID=05, 11, and 23. The programs include Video Works Player, Dungeons of Doom, Megaroids, Adventures of Snake, Hendrix, Pretty Good Terminal (PGT), and MacTest 7.0. The question I have is: Is the Mac II really that incompatible with other Macs? And is there any hope for my running these programs? -------------------------- Mark A. McLaughlin Univeristy of New Mexico mark@sleepy.cs.unm.edu
ephraim@think.COM (Ephraim Vishniac) (02/17/89)
In article <2282@unmvax.unm.edu> mark@sleepy.cs.unm.edu () writes: >The most common error I have gotten is ID=01, but I have also gotten >errors ID=05, 11, and 23. The programs include Video Works Player, >Dungeons of Doom, Megaroids, Adventures of Snake, Hendrix, Pretty >Good Terminal (PGT), and MacTest 7.0. Some of these programs were broken not by the Mac II, but by System Tools 5.0. With that release, Apple commenced using a previously unused but reserved location in low memory. It turned out that some programs, especially programs compiled with Megamax C, used that location. I'm certain this is the problem with Megaroids and Adventures of Snake. There was a simple patch for this particular problem, but it won't help Megaroids, which also did screen-flipping animation. It's also of marginal help to Snake, because Snake uses software timing instead of pacing itself by the system clock. That is, it's essentially unplayable on a Mac II even after the patch. Hendrix generates sound and is very old; it's probably broken with respect to the different sound hardware on the Mac II. MacTest 7.0 is probably hardware-specific to classic Macs. >The question I have is: Is the Mac II really that incompatible with >other Macs? And is there any hope for my running these programs? The Mac II's hardware is substantially different. Touching the hardware directly has always been a risky thing, but many people did it anyway. Ephraim Vishniac ephraim@think.com Thinking Machines Corporation / 245 First Street / Cambridge, MA 02142-1214 "Arlo Guthrie, it seems, has found what he was looking for: God, and the Macintosh." (Boston Globe)
ajq@mace.cc.purdue.edu (John O'Malley) (02/17/89)
In article <2282@unmvax.unm.edu> mark@sleepy.cs.unm.edu () writes: > >The question I have is: Is the Mac II really that incompatible with other Macs? >And is there any hope for my running these [public domain] programs? > >Mark A. McLaughlin >mark@sleepy.cs.unm.edu No, the Mac II isn't incompatible ... for up-to-date, supported programs. I'm not a programmer (but I play one on TV :-), but I know that Apple has a rather strenuous set of guidelines for Macintosh programs. When these guidelines are followed, programs should be usable on just about any modern Macintosh. They should also not need modification when new versions of System Tools are released. When these guidelines are broken, programs crash. We've seen this happen with dozens of commercial programs ... MacPaint is a good example. Ever tried to run MacPaint 1.5 on a Mac II that's setup for color? The problem with public domain software is that quite a bit of it is written, released, and forgotten. Programmers who release PD stuff don't get any profit from spending the time to upgrade their programs. Also, quite a bit of it was written to work with the then-current System/Finder and hardware without following those guidelines from Apple. Thus, if it was written for a Mac 512 with old 64K ROMs using some ancient compiler under some early System/Finder (Megaroids is an example), it'll likely not work or bomb big-time on a Mac Plus, Mac II, Mac IV, and Mac VII using Tools 6.0.2, 7.0, 9.0, 15.0 ... you get the idea. If this is wrong, I hope someone corrects me ... but I'll bet I'm close. John O'Malley / Macintosh / Purdue University / (317) mace.cc.purdue.edu!ajq / Specialist / Computing Center / 494-1787
dce@stan.UUCP (David Elliott) (02/17/89)
In article <36459@think.UUCP> ephraim@think.com (Ephraim Vishniac) writes: >Hendrix generates sound and is very old; it's probably broken with >respect to the different sound hardware on the Mac II. Actually, Hendrix works fairly well until you try to quit. Sometimes, it stops making sounds for a little while, but if you move the mouse to a different location, it usually comes back. As soon as you quit, it crashes the system. I haven't been keeping count, but I would estimate that the majority of crashes that I get come when I try to quit. Thus, the program is still usable if I don't mind the wait for the reboot. Still, I tend to add these to the "Bad Software" archive and get them off the machine. Now, who was it that was talking about developing a virtual machine? -- David Elliott ...!pyramid!boulder!stan!dce
gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (02/17/89)
If the program is a game with very spiffy animation, it's probably
using the two video buffers of the Mac+/SE, and cannot run on the Mac
II.
Sometimes it helps to try turning of the 68020 cache (PD utiles such
as cachecontrol help here).
Imagine that the stuff that won't run on a Mac II is old junk.
Perhaps this will help out.
Don Gillies {uiucdcs!gillies} U of Illinoisdrc@claris.com (Dennis Cohen) (02/17/89)
Mark A. McLaughlin writes: > The question I have is: Is the Mac II really that incompatible with other Macs? > And is there any hope for my running these programs? No, the Mac II is not really that incompatible with other Macs; however, there is little chance of running the programs mentioned. Among the reasons for failure are: 1) Programmers who broke the rules, ie did things that Apple warned them would break on future hardware and System software. 2) Programmers who used a development system whose libraries broke the above-mentioned rules. 3) Incompatibilities in the Mac II as related to other Macs. In my opinion, these are listed in decreasing order of incidence. The only one for which Apple can fairly be chastised is the last one, by far the least common cause. The authors of the programs that fail can always be blamed in the first case. You can be the judge allotting the blame in the second case. I've been programming for the Mac for over five years now and every program I've written has run under new Systems and on new Macs (except for a few that failed for reason 2, above, and those were fixed by recompiling and/or relinking). If you play by the rules your probability of staying compatible is very high, if you don't then your customers suffer and eventually they will find out that it is your fault and you will feel their wrath. Apple sends System releases to their developers before release so that the develop- ment community can test for compatibility and they send out TechNotes as to which practices will cause harm "on future architectures". There is really no good excuse for not being compatible, at least on software for sale. Dennis Cohen Claris Corp. ------------ Disclaimer: Any opinions expressed above are _MINE_!
ngg@bridge2.3Com.Com (Norman Goodger) (02/21/89)
In article <2282@unmvax.unm.edu> mark@sleepy.cs.unm.edu () writes: > >The most common error I have gotten is ID=01, but I have also gotten errors >ID=05, 11, and 23. The programs include Video Works Player, Dungeons of Doom, >Megaroids, Adventures of Snake, Hendrix, Pretty Good Terminal (PGT), and >MacTest 7.0. >The question I have is: Is the Mac II really that incompatible with other Macs? >And is there any hope for my running these programs? >Mark A. McLaughlin Mark, its not that the Mac II is incompatable with other Macs, its that the software you are attempting to use is not compatable with your Mac II for a variety of reasons. Some software was written to be hardware specific, this causes alot of problems. Some software relies on the alternate screen buffer that the Mac II does not have. Some software was created with compilers that just do not generate code that works with the 68020. And I am sure there are some other reasons as well. A variety of the older games that you mention probably fall into one of the above categories.... -- Norm Goodger SysOp - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862 3Com Corp. Co-Sysop FreeSoft RT - GEnie. Enterprise Systems Division (I disclaim anything and everything)