mjohnson@Apple.COM (Mark B. Johnson) (02/24/89)
The following is the first of several questions sent in response to my posting about Apple Developer Services. David Szetela, who is the manager of Developer Services, is responding to these questions, and his reply follows the original question. As promised, I am posting both the question and response to comp.sys.apple, comp.sys.mac, and comp.sys.mac.programmer. As stated in the original posting, additional questions about Developer Services should be sent to my address at the end of this posting. All questions and answers will be posted to these newsgroups as they are finished. Thanks for your input and your patience. Mark >Date: Tue, 7 Feb 89 22:27:32 EST >From: brian e. topping <topping@cis.ohio-state.edu> >Subject: Re: Your chance to ask Apple > >David & Mark, > >I am writing in regard to Mark's posting on the net about a chance to have >our opinions known and ask questions about the new policies of Apple Developer >Support. I will try to be brief, but please bear with me if you have heard >the same story a million times by now. > >I am a third year Comp & Inf. Sci. student at Ohio State and have been a Mac >owner since July 16, 1984. This was a few days after the first price drop on >the 128K machine and gently forced my parents into cosigning a loan for the >thing. It had treated me well, and I think that I have sold quite a few >other Macs with it. I also was an early supporter of languages that ran on >the Mac, as I had bought one of the first copies of MacForth and had ordered >TML pascal when nobody had ever heard about it. I have copies of the three >ring binder version of IM, and I still work out of my phone book edition of IM. > >Over the last several years, I have become quite proficient with Mac >programming, and have been involved with the programming of numerous DA's, >applications, and Hypercard stacks for local individuals and companies. Last >year I headed up a local Certified Developer's programming project to get their >UNIX product ported to the Mac, under contract. I am continuing work on the >Mac, and am working currently on something of an object-oriented DA/application >construction kit that is MF compatible, etc. I have been working on this for >the last six or so months and am nearing the first phase of completion of this >project. > >The major reason I embarked on this project was because I enjoy the Mac, >enjoyed working for the local developer last year, and thought that this >would be a good way for me to also become a Certified Developer. My plan >was that I would be able to continue working on the shoestring budget of a >startup until the project was completed and in the beta test stages that I >would apply for developer status, and would hopefully be accepted. This would >in turn signal to publishers that I am indeed serious, and allow me to gain >an easier acceptance in the front door. This would also enable me to buy my >own Mac, instead of forcing me to rely on friends Macs, using my HD. > >I was quite shocked last month to hear that the developer program had been >so radically changed. All of the sudden, it would now cost me four months >worth of rent to be an acknowledged developer. As I am also a full time >independent student, there is just no way that I will be able to do this >until I graduate! Unfortunately, this will be too long, as I will then have >student loans to pay (as opposed to absorb), and have other post-undergrad >purchases to think about, like a car. The student purchase plan helps some >in respect to the cost of hardware and software, but unfortunately, MPW is not >sold in the student catalog at my school. At the moment, I am looking >at upwards of $400 in upgrades to MPW, and another $500 in upgrades for memory! >I can (barely) scrape up this money, but if I have to do this when I again >when I graduate, AND pay the developer fee, I am not going to be able to. >I am going to have to give up Mac programming and work for someone else doing >uncreative things for them on their choice of machines. This is serious. >I am worried for my future! > >I am not looking for sympathy, and I can understand that what needs to be >done, needs to be done. I see your point in trying to weed out people >posing as developers so that they can get the lower equipment costs. But >what about people like me? I think there might be more people like me out >there that you haven't heard about. People who are honest enough to realize >that they are not done with their product yet, and they are not going to count >their chickens before they hatch. People who realize that the developer >program is there to help people who help Apple, not people who "think" they >will have a product next year. (Yes I am aware of the 1.5 year "shrink-wrap" >policy.) And I think there are now a lot of people who feel like they have >been hit in the face. Do you know what I mean? I feel hurt and unwanted by >Apple. I feel like my contribution is not important to Apple or the Mac >society. I know that it is a good product, and I also know that everyone who >has seen it, users and professionals alike, think I have done a very good job >with my creation. I really don't understand the signals Apple is sending out. >What am I supposed to do? > >All my friends here that know the details about this, and surprisingly, >there are a lot of them, I think feel a little left out. We really need to >know that we are wanted. We dont need a "Microsoft Tech Support 800 number", >gala developer parties, or ornate silkscreened binders. We need hardware >purchase support. We need tech notes on a timely basis. For some people, >their time is worth a lot of money, for others their money is worth a lot >of time. Given the same seed, both can grow the same product; one is more >expensive, one takes more time. And I know that a lot of innovation in >this country comes from people in the second category, or the smaller organi- >zation. We have a lot of the quality ideas, or "seeds" if you will. With >the loss of the developer program, we will need even more time to germinate >our seeds, because we will have spent our money on DTS, and not food & rent. > >Someone on the net did some quick division on how much the new developer >program prices will net Apple, per machine. I don't know if his figures are >correct, but he said that it was five dollars per machine. To the Mac >community, that means $25 on the cost of the machine, after the markups are >extended thru distribution channels You know what? I think it is worth >it. And I bet that consumers would say that too. Imagine at the point of >purchase that Mac buyers were given the option to spend an extra $25 to >support Mac DTS. In exchange, they would be given the priviledge to shop at >a store that had a larger selection of software, made possible in part by >the donations of these people to DTS, enabling DTS to be able to provide the >services you do to developers who could not otherwise afford them. I am not >saying that EVERYONE would, but I think a signifigant majority would. I am >not advocating welfare Macs, only that more controls be placed on those who >are going to say they are a developer. I would hate to shop at a store that >carried software that came only from large companies like Microsoft. Do you >see what I am saying? > >Thank you for hearing me out. > > >Sincerely, > >Brian E. Topping >2166 Indianola Ave. >Columbus, Ohio 43201 >(614) 291-2074 Brian, First, and most importantly, Apple is _not_ trying to squeeze out small developers, nor are we trying to flush out developers who aren't "serious." The necessity for a fee-based program is due solely to the fact that the program's expense had grown to the point that further maintenance was difficult, and improvement was impossible. We set the fees based on how much we thought all developers could afford. The fees recover _some_ of the $70 million/yr. investment we put into our developer-related activities. We're not making a profit. We're not even breaking even. In response to concerns like yours, my staff and I are investigating the possibility of a scholarship system, whereby we can waive the fees for especially needy and well-qualified developers. If you have suggestions for how we might qualify applicants, I'd love to hear them. A couple of suggestions: first, you might get your employers to subsidize the cost of the program. Alternatively, you might set yourself up as a small business, in which case you could write off the fees, as well as your hardware costs. In summary, Brian, please be assured that our intent was not to hurt or hinder small developers. We have spent, and are spending, significant time discussing ways to _retain_ small developers. As you point out, they're often the most talented innovators in our base. I hope this helps - please let me know if you have any other questions. David Mark B. Johnson AppleLink: mjohnson Developer Technical Support domain: mjohnson@Apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. UUCP: {amdahl,decwrl,sun,unisoft}!apple!mjohnson "You gave your life to become the person you are right now. Was it worth it?" - Richard Bach, _One_
mbk@hpsemc.HP.COM (Miles Kehoe) (03/04/89)
The truth is that Silicon Valley has grown up, become a 'mature market', and risks losing touch with the people who made it the success it is. This isn't a flame at Apple... most companies do the same sort of thing. I can understand that an active developer support program costs a bundle. Apple has been among the leaders in providing excellent high quality support for years. In fact, I would argue that one reason Apple has been so successful in the end user market is because of their investment in developer support. Sadly, when bean counters start to propogate and 'cost jusitification studies' become rampant, a company stands to lose its edge. Soon things that were 'givaways' which made the company profitable come under scrutiny and a VP of Finance somewhere sets in place a program so that 'every program has to pay for itself'. The newly modified developers program at Apple is just a recent instance of this sad fact of corporate life. The previous note in this thread claimed that the cost of a $70 million per year program was just too high to go without breaking even. For the last 10 years, most of that cost was justified because the profit from selling tons of system made Apple highly profitable. Now, someone who has not seen (or possibly just can't quantify) the contribution to profit of an active developers' program has put in place a program to charge money for the service. I really do not fault Apple here - my company has done the same sort of thing in several places, and each time the effect has been the demand decreases for the service. I'm sure the $70M expense will end up much lower in the coming years, even if it does look more profitable 'on paper'. (Remember last Fall when Apple raised prices and became much less profitable inthe process? Notice that prices are lower again - and, of course, so is the stock) I guess the invitation I'd make to all who have anything to do with developer programs and/or system sales is this: Is Apple (read 'any hardware manufacturer' really) doing the software developers a favor by helping them write code on their platform, or are the developers doing Apple a service? Most corporate managers seem to feel the hardware manufacturer is the one doing a favor 'helping out' the developer - often "just at break-even cost". I'd propose that it is the developer who is doing the hardware manufacturer the favor. To paraphrase an ad for PC software I saw a few years ago: How many uses can you think of for a computer without software? My employer, sadly, does not agree with my statements, and would probably disavow them if they knew. mbk@hp