[comp.sys.mac] microprocessor development environment

news@zodiac.UUCP (USENET News) (03/03/89)

From: pkahn@meridian.ads.com (Philip Kahn)
Path: meridian!pkahn

Similar to a previous posting by someone else, I am looking for a
microprocessor development system for my MacII.  For example, I want
to control a motor, so I want to use a simple 8-bit microprocessor,
with a small ROM, RAM, and perhaps and RS-232 chip.  To develop this
system, I need a compiler (or, less attractively, an assembler) for
the microprocessor, preferably a MacII-based simulator to debug the
code with, and an interface between the microcontroller and the Mac.
This stuff is all standard fare in the PC/XT/AT world, but I hate IBM,
I own a Mac, and I want to keep it that way.  

Can anyone suggest a product(s), companies, or anything to support
this type of venture.  I am leaning towards the 8080A, Z80, or 6502,
but anything that is well-supported and uses a low-cost microprocessor
(i.e., 8-bit) is fine with me.  

	thanks,
	phil...

hpoppe@bierstadt.ucar.edu (Herb Poppe) (03/04/89)

In article <7051@zodiac.UUCP> pkahn@ads.com (Philip Kahn) writes:
>From: pkahn@meridian.ads.com (Philip Kahn)
>Path: meridian!pkahn
>
>Similar to a previous posting by someone else, I am looking for a
>microprocessor development system for my MacII.  For example, I want
>to control a motor, so I want to use a simple 8-bit microprocessor,
>with a small ROM, RAM, and perhaps and RS-232 chip.  To develop this
>system, I need a compiler (or, less attractively, an assembler) for
>the microprocessor, preferably a MacII-based simulator to debug the
>code with, and an interface between the microcontroller and the Mac.
>This stuff is all standard fare in the PC/XT/AT world, but I hate IBM,
>I own a Mac, and I want to keep it that way.  
>
>Can anyone suggest a product(s), companies, or anything to support
>this type of venture.  I am leaning towards the 8080A, Z80, or 6502,
>but anything that is well-supported and uses a low-cost microprocessor
>(i.e., 8-bit) is fine with me.  
>
You don't say whether this is for your personal use or for a product
the company you work for is developing. Since I don't have big bucks to
spend on my own projects, I've not made it a point to become familiar
with systems (if any) that are used for "professional" microcontroller
development.

Like you, I am interested in controlling a motor fom my Mac. For this
purpose I use a single-chip microcomputer (=microcontroller), not a
microprocessor with support chips. These devices are more suitable
for this kind of an application because they include such things
as timers onboard the chip. I control the speed of my motor using
pulse width modulation (PWM) techniques. Varying the duty cycle of
the square wave output gives one a varying average voltage across the motor
(this is a DC permanent magnet motor). I use the timer to generate
the square wave. This allows me to simultaneous communicate with the
Mac via the chip's onboard serial port.  I use a version of the Z8
microcontroller from Zilog. The version includes a (very) simple
integer BASIC interpreter in the chips ROM. The Z8 is mounted on a PC
board with 4K of pseudo-static RAM (to hold the program), an address latch
to demultiplex the address for the RAM, RS232 drivers/receivers and some
glue chips. I purchased the board from MicroMint about 5 years ago.
To program this system in BASIC, I just use a terminal emulator on the Mac.

For my current project, I can't used interpreted BASIC, it is too slow.
I do use it however as a "monitor" to download a machine language program
to the chip. I use a spreadsheet to write the assembly language
and then hand assemble the code into machine language. I use the spreadsheet
to convert the  hand assembled code into a form I can download to the Z8.
This form is similar to doing an "immediate" POKE in other forms of BASIC.

As you can well imagine, hand assembling code is a royal pain. I am looking
to use a cross-assembler to do that job. A company called:

Micro Dialects
Dept U
PO Box 30014
Cincinnati, OH 45230
(513) 271-9100

makes Mac based cross-assemblers that support COP400, RCA 1802, 6502,
6801/6800, 6804, 6805, 6809, 68HC11, 8048, 8051, 8085, 8096, Z8, and
Z80 microcontrollers and microprocesors. Each cross-assembler costs
$129.95. Which is more than I care to spend since I'm interested
in using other microcontrollers as well as the Z8. (By the way, there
are freeware Mac cross-assemblers for Motorola's line of chips
available on their bulletin board. Unfortunately, these are old and
don't seem to work with HFS. I was able to successfully assemble a
few line of code on an MFS disk.) My current plans are to obtain the
source code for a "universal" cross-assembler and port it to the Mac.

I don't know of anyone making simulators (like Avocet's that run on the PC)
that run on the Mac. I don't know of any cross-compilers, either. Even on the
PC, there are none for the simpler chips.

In addition to the Z8 chip that runs BASIC (the 8671, now about $8 through
JAMECO) there is the INTEL 8052AH BASIC that runs a version of BASIC
more suitable for process control. MicroMint has (had?) a version of
FORTH on ROM that plugged into a piggyback version of the Z8. There is
also a company that sells a version of the 68HC11 with FORTH in ROM.
Rockwell also has a FORTH microcontroller with an instruction set
similar to the 6502, if I remember correctly. All of these chips are
more suitable than the 8671 for process control. Several companies
make pre-assembled systems based on these chips.

Each family of microcontroller may have many members. There is usually
one or two members in each that are designed for development or small
production runs. Normally these devices are used to prototype a design
that will be used to mask the ROM of another family member that will
be produced in the 100,000's. The development versions may have
no ROM (you use these like a microprocessor with off-chip ROM and/or RAM but
still have the benefits of on-chip timers, parallel ports, UART, etc.), EPROM,
or EEPROM. The EPROM versions are a pain to develop for because of
the erase/program cycle. The EEPROM versions are relatively new, and are
the most expensive. I'd like to get my hands on an MC68HC805C4. This
version's EEPROM can be programmed (via an on-chip bootstrap loader in ROM)
via its serial port. ROMless chips can be very inexpensive: chips like
the 8031 and 6803 are priced in the $4 range.

Best of luck!

Herb Poppe      NCAR                         INTERNET: hpoppe@ncar.ucar.edu
(303) 497-1296  P.O. Box 3000                   CSNET: hpoppe@ncar.CSNET
		Boulder, CO  80307               UUCP: hpoppe@scdpyr.UUCP

bruce@quick.COM (Bruce Hemingway) (03/06/89)

In article <7051@zodiac.UUCP>, news@zodiac.UUCP (USENET News) writes:
> Similar to a previous posting by someone else, I am looking for a
> microprocessor development system for my MacII.  For example, I want
> Can anyone suggest a product(s), companies, or anything to support
> this type of venture.  I am leaning towards the 8080A, Z80, or 6502,
> but anything that is well-supported and uses a low-cost microprocessor
> (i.e., 8-bit) is fine with me.  
A
Manx Aztec C is available as a cross- development system for the
Mac environment.  Versions support 680x0, 8086, 6805, 6502, Z80 and
perhaps others, if memory serves.  I recently purchased the 68020
system to do cross-development.  The system produces S-record format
code which downloads to many eprom programmers.  The only
disadvantage (in my opinion) is that it does not run under MPW
shell. Instead it uses the Aztec shell which replaces the finder and
will not run under multifinder.
      Bruce Hemingway


.

curry@garth.UUCP (Ray Curry) (03/08/89)

In article <311@quick.COM> bruce@quick.COM (Bruce Hemingway) writes:
>In article <7051@zodiac.UUCP>, news@zodiac.UUCP (USENET News) writes:
>> Similar to a previous posting by someone else, I am looking for a
>> microprocessor development system for my MacII.  For example, I want
>> Can anyone suggest a product(s), companies, or anything to support
>> this type of venture.  I am leaning towards the 8080A, Z80, or 6502,
>> but anything that is well-supported and uses a low-cost microprocessor
>> (i.e., 8-bit) is fine with me.  
>A
>Manx Aztec C is available as a cross- development system for the
>Mac environment.  Versions support 680x0, 8086, 6805, 6502, Z80 and
>perhaps others, if memory serves.  I recently purchased the 68020
>system to do cross-development.  The system produces S-record format
>code which downloads to many eprom programmers.  The only
>disadvantage (in my opinion) is that it does not run under MPW
>shell. Instead it uses the Aztec shell which replaces the finder and
>will not run under multifinder.
>      Bruce Hemingway
>
The last version of Manx's Aztec C I received does run under MPW.  I
am getting a little disturbed at Manx however since I am a long term 
user and bought upgrade subscriptions at $100 for the last two years and
received no upgrades.  Aztec C has been a little funny in the Mac world
because of the console driver equivalent used.  Code would run under the
Aztec shell or had to have the con added to the system.  (Now it runs
under MPW but you loose some tools like the vi editor).  For cross
development, it wouldn't present a problem.

nick@druco.ATT.COM (nick) (03/08/89)

In article <311@quick.COM>, bruce@quick.COM (Bruce Hemingway) writes:
> Manx Aztec C is available as a cross- development system for the
> Mac environment.  Versions support 680x0, 8086, 6805, 6502, Z80 and
> perhaps others, if memory serves.  

Bruce, Manx does sell development systems for the 80x86,680x,z80x, However,
these are MS_DOS based. The only system they sell that runs on the Mac
is the 680x0 system. It's a pitty they have not ported the other cross
comiplers/assemblers to Mac. I'm also interested in what's available.

					Nick

paco@oakhill.UUCP (Paco) (03/15/89)

In article <3800@druco.ATT.COM>, nick@druco.ATT.COM (nick) writes:
> In article <311@quick.COM>, bruce@quick.COM (Bruce Hemingway) writes:
> > Manx Aztec C is available as a cross- development system for the
> > Mac environment.  Versions support 680x0, 8086, 6805, 6502, Z80 and
> > perhaps others, if memory serves.  
> 
> Bruce, Manx does sell development systems for the 80x86,680x,z80x, However,
> these are MS_DOS based. The only system they sell that runs on the Mac
> is the 680x0 system. It's a pitty they have not ported the other cross
> comiplers/assemblers to Mac. I'm also interested in what's available.
> 
> 					Nick

Motorola offers Mac based cross development systems.  Our department has an
MC68020 system on the market...  An MC68020 compiler/assembler/linker along 
with emulator software for the HDS-300 hardware development station and 
MC68020 emulator module that provides source level debug and bus analysis.

We have a M68K Family Assembler for the Mac that's just about ready to be
released.  On the low-end of Mac based development, somebody could use the 
assembler and utilities to covert executables into S-records.

We have work in progress on Macintosh cross compilers and emulator software
for other processors in the M68K family.  Those will support other emulator
modules for the HDS-300 station and its successor.

Contact a local Motorola sales office for prices or email to me for
technical information.

    paco.

---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- 

Macintosh Software Developer
Motorola Microprocessor Products Group
Austin, Texas

email:		cs.utexas.edu!oakhill!devsys!paco
		paco @ Generic BBS 201/389-8473

disclaimer:	author is responsible for all statements

author-of:	Menstat, CS-1 @ Stanford, MacGroup @ AT&T, emulators galore...

quote:		"Tiger smells blood."