vogelei@nmtsun.nmt.edu (Todd Vogelei) (04/25/89)
As the only computer literate in my family my sister consulted me about what mac she should buy when the apple student purchase plan came to her college (Western Michigan U). She is in interior design and wanted something that would help her do fast floor plans, pictures etc., as well as help her plan building costs (spreadsheets). Of the systems available for purchase through the program, the macII 4M-40HD seemed to fit the bill. I told her to buy one of those. This was back in October or so. It is not remembered if the not too computer literate secretaries taking orders for systems suggeste (presumably because of the great RAM famine) that she buy a 1 meg model and buy a 1M and a 2M upgrade kit (I saw the system description list and there was not one hint that this would be an illegal combination) so as to speed up delivery, that they wrote it down wrong themselves, or that simply the right system was ordered but not shipped correctly for memory shortage reasons mentioned above. At any rate, the mac in question went poof (power supply and main board) twenty nine days after its delivery in December and was fixed under warranty by a qualified apple mechanic. While the box was in the shop, the rest of the memory arrived. When sis went to pick it up she took the upgrades with her to let the tech install them. Said tech did install the 1M (4-256k SIMMS) and thus informed sis that there were no more expansion slots for the 2-1M SIMMs and that the best he could do was 2M. The college secretaries were alerted and when they said no trade for 4-1M modules could be arranged, sis asked for a refund on all 3M of x-pander chips which the secs agreed to over the phone. (By this time cheaper memory had again become available in abundance and the decision was made to return 3 and buy 4 thus giving 5-a legal combination) Enter Apple representative in Chicago (who shall remain nameless until I determine if something can be gained by releasing his name). Said rep did tell the secs (two women who got a little power and lost their minds) that only the 2-1M simms would be accepted after a 15% restocking fee was deducted + $20 shipping although nothing would be accepted if it had been installed (even by the registered apple mechanic mentioned above) ever "and we got ways of tellin" he said. Sis became frantic since she paid for this system with her own savings, passing up that flashy red convertible in the bargain. I offered to negotiate for her as she had to go to Italy to study art for a semester and have come up against a brick wall. Questions continue to plague me as I grapple with the big issues like: Can these profit hungry student haters actually be the makers of the same apple // series of computers I owned and learned to hack on in my youth? Since when was it good business to take a UFO (you f***ing own it) to people you want to upgrade to your next snazzy box in a year or so? What should our next move be? Only John Scully comes to mind. How do I reach him? If any of you mac-netters out there have any suggestions on how my sister can end up with the 4M machine she paid for 7 monts or so ago. Drop me some mail. We are about ready to toss the whole thing through the front windows at apple to make a point. Sorry for ranting. Todd vogelei@nmtsun
jyen@cs.utexas.edu (John Yen) (04/26/89)
In article <2432@nmtsun.nmt.edu>, vogelei@nmtsun.nmt.edu (Todd Vogelei) writes: > > Questions continue to plague me as I grapple with the big issues like: > Can these profit hungry student haters actually be the makers of the > same apple // series of computers I owned and learned to hack on in my > youth? Since when was it good business to take a UFO (you f***ing own it) > to people you want to upgrade to your next snazzy box in a year or so? > What should our next move be? Only John Scully comes to mind. How do I > reach him? > > If any of you mac-netters out there have any suggestions on how my sister > can end up with the 4M machine she paid for 7 monts or so ago. Drop me > some mail. We are about ready to toss the whole thing through the front > windows at apple to make a point. > > Sorry for ranting. > Todd > vogelei@nmtsun The Apple Corp. you're dealing with today is not the same as the one that sold you Apple //'s. They believe in bottom line, 90-day profit. If you're not a company, you can take it or leave it. Period. Don't blow any smoke about the higher education discount; that's just following the path UNIX started on. Yes, the Apple rep sounds like a jerk, and yes, the secretaries seem to left their brains somewhere. But then, your sister's 'just' a person, not a company that Apple can sell several Macs to. Welcome to Big Red, not-so-little brother of Big Blue. So far as the people in charge are concerned, the old Apple's history. Don't get me wrong; from a business point of view Apple's made the right moves. It's just that those moves ensure individuals can go jump in a lake, as far as Apple's concerned. Standard disclaimer. John Yen (jyen@cs.utexas.edu)
mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus) (04/26/89)
In article <2432@nmtsun.nmt.edu>, vogelei@nmtsun.nmt.edu (Todd Vogelei) writes: > > This was back in October or so. It is not remembered if the not too > computer literate secretaries taking orders for systems suggeste > (presumably because of the great RAM famine) that she buy a 1 meg model > and buy a 1M and a 2M upgrade kit (I saw the system description list and > there was not one hint that this would be an illegal combination) so as > to speed up delivery, that they wrote it down wrong themselves, or that > simply the right system was ordered but not shipped correctly for > memory shortage reasons mentioned above. I have never known Apple to make mistakes in their shipments (although I don't discount the possibility). Your problem here points out a problem with many of the education order centers across the country: THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING. Here at Ball State, I was forced to deal with a mistake that was made by the educational order center: With the Apple Pays Half promotion, they sent in an order for a user that used the keyboard for the peripheral. So, he expected to get a $150 refund, because he bought a CPU and a peripheral (or so he thought). But, he didn't get anything -- a keyboard is not a peripheral, so he is not eligable for a rebate. But telling him that was not very easy. He was planning on making about 4 months of loan payments with the rebate. All I could do was apologize. The mistake was on the part of the educational order center -- their consultants are students who know very little about the Mac. All I could do was file a complaint with them. Sigh. Events like these give Apple a bad name. > At any rate, the mac in question went poof (power supply and main board) > twenty nine days after its delivery in December and was fixed under warranty > by a qualified apple mechanic. While the box was in the shop, the rest of the > memory arrived. When sis went to pick it up she took the upgrades with her > to let the tech install them. Said tech did install the 1M (4-256k SIMMS) > and thus informed sis that there were no more expansion slots for the > 2-1M SIMMs and that the best he could do was 2M. Any qualified consultant would know that an order like this would be completely unacceptable. The technician in this case did the best that he could, since the 1MB SIMMs must be installed in sets of four, and there are only 8 SIMM slots. ... > Enter Apple representative in Chicago (who shall remain nameless until > I determine if something can be gained by releasing his name). Said > rep did tell the secs (two women who got a little power and lost their > minds) that only the 2-1M simms would be accepted after a 15% restocking > fee was deducted + $20 shipping although nothing would be accepted if it > had been installed (even by the registered apple mechanic mentioned > above) ever "and we got ways of tellin" he said. The Apple representative is right: there is a restocking charge. But, I think that it should be the secretaries that are responsible for that cost, since it appears to be their mistake. I would be fuming if I had to pay for it. As much memory as a place like that should sell, they wouldn't even need to send it back to Apple. ... > Questions continue to plague me as I grapple with the big issues like: > Can these profit hungry student haters actually be the makers of the > same apple // series of computers I owned and learned to hack on in my > youth? Since when was it good business to take a UFO (you f***ing own it) > to people you want to upgrade to your next snazzy box in a year or so? > What should our next move be? Only John Scully comes to mind. How do I > reach him? In my own opinion, Apple should require that all university resellers be forced to attend training that makes them certified consultants. I think it is time to do away with resellers that don't even know how to turn off a Mac II... As for reaching John Sculley, I don't know. I will post the addresses of Apple customer relations (and any other useful addresses that I find), though. > If any of you mac-netters out there have any suggestions on how my sister > can end up with the 4M machine she paid for 7 monts or so ago. Drop me > some mail. We are about ready to toss the whole thing through the front > windows at apple to make a point. Well, you will probably need to sell the 256K SIMMs (all eight of them). I would expect that you can get about $25 for each of them. Then buy two more 1MB SIMMs (look around for a $200 price). So it will end up costing you $200 more. What amazes me here is that the "consultants" didn't realize that the package deal (Mac IIx, 40MB hard drive, and 4MB of memory) would be cheaper in the long run. At the time you bought it, it may have taken a couple of weeks for Apple to ship one, but that delay would have been preferable to the problems that you are having now. > Sorry for ranting. I think this case calls for ranting... > Todd -Michael Niehaus -- Michael Niehaus UUCP: <backbones>!{iuvax,pur-ee}!bsu-cs!mithomas Apple Student Rep ARPA: mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu Ball State University AppleLink: ST0374 (from UUCP: st0374@applelink.apple.com)
mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus) (04/26/89)
Here is the list of addresses that I found. Some may be out of date. If so,
I would appreciate it if someone lets me know what the new information is.
To send e-mail to any address, send a message to the AppleLink address. For
example, to reach Apple Customer Relations, send a message to:
C.Relations@applelink.apple.com
I would recommend sending a US mail letter, though, since it is more formal.
Also, I don't know if they would figure out how to reply to your Usenet
account.
In theory, I believe that you could send a message to John Sculley by addressing
like this:
sculley@applelink.apple.com
assuming that he does not have any numbers after his name. I couldn't tell
you; I have never had the need (nor will I ever have the need) to contact
him :-) Whether he actually reads his mail is another question entirely.
When a Mail Stop is listed, send mail to:
Apple Computer, Inc.
20525 Mariana, MS xx-x
Cupertino, CA 95014
APDA
MCI: 312-7449
AppleLink: APDA
Phone: (206) 251-6548
Bug Report Center
MCI: Apple.Bugs
AppleLink: Apple.Bugs
Mail-Stop: 27-AN
Customer Relations
AppleLink: C.Relations
Phone: (408) 973-2222
Mail-Stop: 23-AX
Dealer in your area
Phone: (800) 538-9696
Licensing
AppleLink: SW.License
Phone: (408) 973-4667
Mail-Stop: 28-B
Tools and Compilers
MCI: 303-6066
AppleLink: Dev.Tools
Mail-Stop: 27-S
-Michael Niehaus
--
Michael Niehaus UUCP: <backbones>!{iuvax,pur-ee}!bsu-cs!mithomas
Apple Student Rep ARPA: mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu
Ball State University AppleLink: ST0374 (from UUCP: st0374@applelink.apple.com)lsr@Apple.COM (Larry Rosenstein) (04/26/89)
In article <6939@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus) writes: > When a Mail Stop is listed, send mail to: > > Apple Computer, Inc. > 20525 Mariana, MS xx-x > Cupertino, CA 95014 The street address is Mariani. Larry Rosenstein, Apple Computer, Inc. Object Specialist Internet: lsr@Apple.com UUCP: {nsc, sun}!apple!lsr AppleLink: Rosenstein1
mjohnson@Apple.COM (Mark B. Johnson) (04/26/89)
In article <6938@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus) writes: >In article <2432@nmtsun.nmt.edu>, vogelei@nmtsun.nmt.edu (Todd Vogelei) writes: >> > >I have never known Apple to make mistakes in their shipments (although I >don't discount the possibility). Your problem here points out a problem with >they sent in an order for a user that used the keyboard for the peripheral. They make mistakes, trust me -- internally as well as externally. >All I could do was apologize. The mistake was on the part of the educational >order center -- their consultants are students who know very little about the >Mac. All I could do was file a complaint with them. Sigh. Events like these >give Apple a bad name. > This is true of more than just Educational Order centers. It's true of retail dealers all over the world. There are some really competent dealers out there and even some Techs who will not swap complete boards according to Apple's agreements (they fix the little part you need, even if it is a pain). Its just a matter of finding the closest dealer with whom you feel comfortable... kind of like looking for a car mechanic. As for the current situation, I would complain VERY loudly to customer satisfaction and the person in charge of the sales outfit. Either the seller should eat the cost (they could very easily resell or use the memory themselves) or if you complain loudly enough Apple will ... if you complain enough about this dealer (in whom you have a lot of trust to guide your purchase decisions) ... I used to deal with a lot of people in the Chicago office, and they are pretty reasonable if approached properly... Mark B. Johnson AppleLink: mjohnson Developer Technical Support domain: mjohnson@Apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. UUCP: {amdahl,decwrl,sun,unisoft}!apple!mjohnson "You gave your life to become the person you are right now. Was it worth it?" - Richard Bach, _One_
mjohnson@Apple.COM (Mark B. Johnson) (04/26/89)
In article <6939@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus) writes: >APDA > MCI: 312-7449 > AppleLink: APDA > Phone: (206) 251-6548 APDA is now owned by Apple and available at M/S 33-G (800) 282-APDA or (800) 282-2732 Fax: (408) 562-3971 Telex: 171-576 AppleLink: APDA > >Bug Report Center > MCI: Apple.Bugs > AppleLink: Apple.Bugs > Mail-Stop: 27-AN > The BRC handles bugs, but if you have confirmed a bug and want to make sure it gets followed up on you can also send to Apple II DTS or Mac DTS... Software Licensing is now at 38-I Developer Program information can be had with the hotline (408) 974-4897. These are not for technical questions, but information about the Partners and Associates programs. If you need information from Claris, they have moved to the following address: Claris Corporation 5201 Patrick Henry Drive (P.O. Box 58168) Santa Clara, CA 95052-8168 Mark B. Johnson AppleLink: mjohnson Developer Technical Support domain: mjohnson@Apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. UUCP: {amdahl,decwrl,sun,unisoft}!apple!mjohnson "You gave your life to become the person you are right now. Was it worth it?" - Richard Bach, _One_
mha@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Mark H. Anbinder) (04/30/89)
In article <6939@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus) writes: >Here is the list of addresses that I found. Some may be out of date. If so, >I would appreciate it if someone lets me know what the new information is. >To send e-mail to any address, send a message to the AppleLink address. For >example, to reach Apple Customer Relations, send a message to: > >C.Relations@applelink.apple.com > >I would recommend sending a US mail letter, though, since it is more formal. Send all your mail on paper, and keep copies of everything. If you are complaining about something (and the person whose posting prompted Michael to post this plans to), you must have everything on paper if you want to be able to claim you contacted the company. Don't just print out a copy of e-mail you send them; the laws haven't yet caught up to the current technology. Note that phone calls aren't enough, either. Write. On paper. Don't bother sending mail to John Sculley. Even if mail sent to the address Michael gave would go to Sculley's e-mail box, and even if he reads his mail, he would pass the message on to the appropriate department, unless something REALLY caught his eye, and while everyone's complaints are very important to them, they are quite commonplace to Apple (without blaming Apple for maliciousness, I will say that customer service problems will happen in large companies). If you REALLY want to protect your rights, send your mail certified, return receipt requested. That way the United States Government will verify that you mailed the letter (though not what it said), and the return card will tell you exactly who accepted your letter when it arrived. -- Mark H. Anbinder ** MHA@TCGould.tn.cornell.edu NG33 MVR Hall, Media Services Dept. ** THCY@CRNLVAX5.BITNET Cornell University H: (607) 257-7587 ******** Ithaca, NY 14853 W: (607) 255-1566 ******* Ego ipse custodies custudio