ins_agws@jhunix (Gordon Stoll) (04/22/89)
Okay, I know some of you in Mac-land aren't terribly fond of IBM-type stuff, but there is a piece of that world I would be very interested in getting my grubby little hands on. The Zenith ZCM-1490 ( I think that's the code ) flat tech monitor is one of the nicest I've ever seen, but it's designed specifically for IBM VGA. Soooo....anybody out there know if you could hook up such a beastie to a Mac II? I believe this would be of general interest ( especially to those of us lucky enough to have seen this monitor ).
henry@chinet.chi.il.us (Henry C. Schmitt) (04/22/89)
In article <1531@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU> ins_agws@jhunix (Gordon Stoll) writes: > > The Zenith ZCM-1490 ( I think that's >the code ) flat tech monitor is one of the nicest I've ever seen, but it's >designed specifically for IBM VGA. Soooo....anybody out there know if >you could hook up such a beastie to a Mac II? Being a Zenith Employee, I was interested in this myself. The Official Policy (TM) is that Zenith will _never_ provide a board to attach the FTM (which stands for Flat Tension Mask) monitor to a non-Zenith machine. I think this is stupid and they're losing potential sales. Anyway RasterOps makes a board which does what you want with two caveats: it will only run in 1-bit or 8-bit modes (2 or 256 colors), why they didn't implement 2 and 4-bit modes I don't know. They other problem is the price: $1095! RasterOps is known for being pricey and they did it on this one too! Anyway the board you want is called the ColorBoard 108 Z and this is what the brochure says: 8-bit graphics board that is compatible with the Zenith FTM-1490 (VGA) monitor. Resolution 640 by 480 pixels. Each pixel is 8-bit deep. Both 8-bit and 1-bit mode supported. QuickDraw Supported. Manual and Zenith monitor cable included. (72 dots per inch, 31.5 KHz scan rate, 60 Hz refresh) I still haven't decided if I'll get one. Apple's video card is _much_ cheaper, especially with a student discount! And then I'd have more to spend on memory! -- H3nry C. Schmitt | CompuServe: 72275,1456 (Rarely) | GEnie: H.Schmitt (Occasionally) Royal Inn of Yoruba | UUCP: Henry@chinet.chi.il.us (Best Bet)
trebor@biar.UUCP (Robert J Woodhead) (04/23/89)
In article <8264@chinet.chi.il.us> henry@chinet.chi.il.us (Henry C. Schmitt) writes: >Anyway RasterOps makes a board which does what you want with two >caveats: it will only run in 1-bit or 8-bit modes (2 or 256 colors), >why they didn't implement 2 and 4-bit modes I don't know. Gee, off the top of my head, I can think of one very good reason. The reason they didn't implement it is because nobody uses 2 or 4 bit modes. I for one have yet to see an application that uses 2 or 4 bit graphics, and I doubt there is any good reason for such an App to be written, especially in a multiprogram environment (where you need extra colors so each App can have it's own palette). IMHO the 2 and 4 bit Color Quickdraw modes were a waste of time. -- Robert J Woodhead, Biar Games, Inc. ...!uunet!biar!trebor | trebor@biar.UUCP "The NY Times is read by the people who run the country. The Washington Post is read by the people who think they run the country. The National Enquirer is read by the people who think Elvis is alive and running the country..."
s160041@castor.ucdavis.edu (Greg DeMichillie) (04/24/89)
I have used a Zenith FTM with the RasterOps board. The high contrast and brightness of the FTM were great, but there is one drawback. The FTM is a 14" monitor, while the Apple is 13". Both use the same number of pixels (640 x 480). That means that many bitmap fonts look poor on the FTM because of the increased jaggies. All in all, I liked the FTM but I don't think I would use it as the sole monitor on my Mac. As a second monitor (for presentation graphics etc..) I think it's unbeatable. ----- Greg DeMichillie Apple Student Rep - UC Davis lgdemichillie@ucdavis.edu AppleLink: ST0178 Disclaimer: If you've seen one disclaimer, you've seen them all. ----- Greg DeMichillie Apple Student Rep - UC Davis lgdemichillie@ucdavis.edu
captkidd@athena.mit.edu (Ivan Cavero Belaunde) (04/24/89)
In article <492@biar.UUCP> trebor@biar.UUCP (Robert J Woodhead) writes: >Gee, off the top of my head, I can think of one very good reason. The >reason they didn't implement it is because nobody uses 2 or 4 bit >modes. I for one have yet to see an application that uses 2 or 4 bit >graphics, and I doubt there is any good reason for such an App to be >written, especially in a multiprogram environment (where you need >extra colors so each App can have it's own palette). >IMHO the 2 and 4 bit Color Quickdraw modes were a waste of time. Actually, I kinda wish Apple had standardized on a minimum of 2 or 4 bit QuickDraw display capability on their new machines. Anyone who has seen the NeXT machine's display (or Apple's own Fuzzy Fonts, for that matter), will tell you that the use of grey scale type (to smooth out edges and the like) will improve readability SIGNIFICANTLY. Of course you should still have bare bones B/W available (via Monitors CDEV) for the sake of speed, but providing a minimum 2-bit or even 4-bit greyscale capability on the SE/30 would have gone very far in promoting standarization to antialiased fonts. As it remains, Fuzzy Fonts is an year-old technology that hasn't been used at all (since only the II line supports it - the SE/30 has Color QD in ROM, but not the display capability) and will take a while for it to reappear. Apple should place this up there with outline fonts, however. So, no, I don't think 2- and 4- bit modes were a waste of time, I just wish there was more outspoken support from Apple for these. >Robert J Woodhead, Biar Games, Inc. ...!uunet!biar!trebor | trebor@biar.UUCP -Ivan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | "My father peddles opium, my mother's on the dole. | | My sister used to walk the streets but now she's on parole. | | My uncle pays with little girlss; my aunt, she raped a steer, | | But they won't even speak to me 'cause I'm an engineer." | | -The MIT Engineers' Drinking Song | |----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | ARPA: captkidd@athena.mit.edu | | DISCLAIMER: It's my spout, not MIT's (would they really say such garbage?) | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
rbrewer@reed.UUCP (Robert S. Brewer) (04/25/89)
In article <10787@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> captkidd@athena.mit.edu (Ivan Cavero Belaunde) writes: |Actually, I kinda wish Apple had standardized on a minimum of 2 or 4 bit |QuickDraw display capability on their new machines. Anyone who has seen |the NeXT machine's display (or Apple's own Fuzzy Fonts, for that matter), |will tell you that the use of grey scale type (to smooth out edges and |the like) will improve readability SIGNIFICANTLY. Of course you should |still have bare bones B/W available (via Monitors CDEV) for the sake of |speed, but providing a minimum 2-bit or even 4-bit greyscale capability |on the SE/30 would have gone very far in promoting standarization to |antialiased fonts. As it remains, Fuzzy Fonts is an year-old technology that |hasn't been used at all (since only the II line supports it - the SE/30 |has Color QD in ROM, but not the display capability) and will take a while |for it to reappear. Apple should place this up there with outline fonts, |however. So, no, I don't think 2- and 4- bit modes were a waste of time, |I just wish there was more outspoken support from Apple for these. | |-Ivan I agree that Apple should release antialiased fonts, but you are incorrect on two points. The NeXT machine does not have antialiased fonts, and may not in the future. Also antialiased fonts are several years old at least, there was considerable work done on them at the MIT Media Lab. There was a new font editing program released at August '88 MacWorld called FRed Font editor that claimed to automatically antialias fonts (there was a nice picture to go along with it). If someone had this program, it seems they could easily whip off antialiased versions of all kinds of fonts. If they were Apple fonts, there might be some question of legality, but for PD fonts it would be no problem. -- Robert S. Brewer Bitnet: RBREWER@REED.BITNET, Usenet: rbrewer@reed.UUCP Student at Reed College GEnie : R.BREWER "That was not manual overide." -Commander Data
bmug@garnet.berkeley.edu (BMUG) (04/26/89)
In article <12542@reed.UUCP> rbrewer@reed.UUCP (Robert S. Brewer) writes (among other things): > >There was a new font editing program released at August '88 MacWorld called >FRed Font editor that claimed to automatically antialias fonts (there was a >nice picture to go along with it). If someone had this program, it seems they >could easily whip off antialiased versions of all kinds of fonts. For those who are interested, the FRed Font editor was acquired on the eve of the Spring Seybold DTP show in San Francisco last month by LetraSet, who expect to bring it out commercially later this year. In my opinion, it was a terrific acquisition, based on looking at the program at the SF MacWorld Expo (hidden away in Brooks Hall); I can't understand why Adobe or Aldus didn't snatch it up (for different motivations). Though I'm personally not a fan of ReadySetGo, the rest of LetraSet's graphics stable is quite strong. John Heckendorn /\ BMUG ARPA: bmug@garnet.berkeley.EDU A__A 1442A Walnut St., #62 BITNET: bmug@ucbgarnet |()| Berkeley, CA 94709 | | (415) 549-2684 | |
mackay@iisat.UUCP (Daniel MacKay) (04/26/89)
It is REALLY weird for Microsoft Canada to be organized enough to ship anything for six months after it comes out- mine must be a mistake. Since I just bought 3.x a few months ago, my upgrade was free. I do use the Diablo 630 serial driver that came with Word 3. The 4.0 manual says the old driver doesn't work with 4.0, and they don't ship the driver with it- now you have to write away to get the serial drivers. So it comes with the macro package, Superpaint, and a Thesaurus. Superpaint's hot-linked to the Word doc like an Excel doc can be under Multifinder. -- +---------+ From the IIS Public Usenet | _ | disk of Halifax, Nova Scotia | (_)===| Daniel mackay@iisat.UUCP | | ...{utai,uunet,watmath}!dalcs!iisat!mackay +---------+ MACKAY@DALAC.BITNET
alexis@ccnysci.UUCP (Alexis Rosen) (04/28/89)
In article <492@biar.UUCP> trebor@biar.UUCP (Robert J Woodhead) writes: >In article <8264@chinet.chi.il.us> henry@chinet.chi.il.us (Henry C. Schmitt) writes: >>Anyway RasterOps makes a board which does what you want with two >>caveats: it will only run in 1-bit or 8-bit modes (2 or 256 colors), >>why they didn't implement 2 and 4-bit modes I don't know. > >Gee, off the top of my head, I can think of one very good reason. The >reason they didn't implement it is because nobody uses 2 or 4 bit >modes. I for one have yet to see an application that uses 2 or 4 bit >graphics [etc.] > >IMHO the 2 and 4 bit Color Quickdraw modes were a waste of time. Well, you're usually right, but I think you blew it on this one. What about the huge number of people who bought 4-bit Apple boards? I often see people using 4-bit color. If they couldn't they would be very very unhappy. This doesn't have anything to do with RasterOps' decision not to support 2 and 4-bit, just with software companies' support for 2 and 4-bit. There is another good reason to support 2 and 4-bit, but Apple has lazily given up the initiative on this issue and nobody has stepped forward to replace them. That reason is anti-aliased fonts. It is truly ridiculous that after more than 2 years of support for gray scales, there are no such fonts available (that I know of. Certainly, none widespread). If such fonts existed they would be a very good reason to support 2-bit mode, at least. And if pigs had wings... :-( --- Alexis Rosen alexis@ccnysci.{uucp,bitnet} alexis@rascal.ics.utexas.edu (last resort)
chow@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Christopher Chow) (04/29/89)
In article <1783@ccnysci.UUCP> alexis@ccnysci.UUCP (Alexis Rosen) writes: .In article <492@biar.UUCP. trebor@biar.UUCP (Robert J Woodhead) writes: ..In article <8264@chinet.chi.il.us. henry@chinet.chi.il.us (Henry C. Schmitt) writes: . ..IMHO the 2 and 4 bit Color Quickdraw modes were a waste of time. . What I'd always wanted to know was why Apple didn't support a 3-bit mode on their video card. Why might one want a 3-bit graphics mode? Well, 3-bits would be suffcient to render the colors found in the [non color] quickdraw programs and it should be faster than 4-bit mode since there's less bits to move around. . .What about the huge number of people who bought 4-bit Apple boards? I .often see people using 4-bit color. If they couldn't they would be .very very unhappy. . Interesting. Although I agree with you that the 4-bit mode should be supported (if not for anything else, an 8-bit card should be able to double buffering in 4-bit mode), I haven't seen anyone with just a 4-bit card after the initial video-RAM crunch. It seems that if one can afford a Mac II/IIcx/IIx one would be able to invest the extar $150 to get 8-bit video. Christopher Chow /---------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Internet: chow@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (128.84.248.35 or 128.84.253.35) | | Usenet: ...{uw-beaver|decvax|vax135}!cornell!batcomputer!chow | | US Mail: 202C Grenadier Drive, Liverpool, NY 13090 | | Phone: Work: 1-315-456-3214, Home: 1-315-622-0362 | | Delphi: chow2 | \---------------------------------------------------------------------------/
ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) (04/30/89)
[ someone says that they haven't seen anyone who stayed at four bit video after the video ram crunch ended ] Well, now you have. I'm still at four bits. I run 1 bit most of the time. I only switch to 4 bit to play Chuck Yaeger's Advanced Flight Trainer, which supports 4 bits ( and looks really yucky in 1 bit ). If I were going to upgrade my video, I would put the money towards a larger display. Tim Smith
sho@pur-phy (Sho Kuwamoto) (05/03/89)
In article <7848@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> chow@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (Christopher Chow) writes: >What I'd always wanted to know was why Apple didn't support a 3-bit mode on >their video card. Why might one want a 3-bit graphics mode? Well, 3-bits >would be suffcient to render the colors found in the [non color] quickdraw >programs and it should be faster than 4-bit mode since there's less bits to >move around. But if you have only 3 bits/pixel, a pixel can cross a byte boundary. I suppose you could introduce padding, but that would be nasty as well. -Sho
res12@snoopy.UMD.EDU (Matthew T. Russotto) (05/03/89)
In article <2235@pur-phy> sho@newton.physics.purdue.edu.UUCP (Sho Kuwamoto) writes: >In article <7848@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> chow@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (Christopher Chow) writes: >>What I'd always wanted to know was why Apple didn't support a 3-bit mode on >>their video card. Why might one want a 3-bit graphics mode? Well, 3-bits >>would be suffcient to render the colors found in the [non color] quickdraw >>programs and it should be faster than 4-bit mode since there's less bits to >>move around. > >But if you have only 3 bits/pixel, a pixel can cross a byte boundary. >I suppose you could introduce padding, but that would be nasty as >well. > >-Sho I think a 3-bit mode would definitely be SLOWER than the 4 bit mode, for the reason you mention. Actually, 8-bit mode is FASTER than 4-bit mode, since Quickerdraw and/or system 6.0.x, because it is much quicker to move a byte at a time rather than a nybble.. -- DISCLAIMER: Not only does the University not share my opinions, they don't want me sharing my opinions. "This 'Pnews', what does it do?" Matthew T. Russotto res12@snoopy.umd.edu (this semester only)
alexis@ccnysci.UUCP (Alexis Rosen) (05/07/89)
In article <7848@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> chow@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (Christopher Chow) writes: >What I'd always wanted to know was why Apple didn't support a 3-bit mode on >their video card. Why might one want a 3-bit graphics mode? Well, 3-bits >would be suffcient to render the colors found in the [non color] quickdraw >programs and it should be faster than 4-bit mode since there's less bits to >move around. This does not make any sense to me. First off, why is having the same number of colors as old quickdraw beneficial? Both run on a clor-capable Mac anyway. Second, I'll give you odds that three-bit is slower than four-bit (if you could do it at all). With four bit color, your pixels are byte-aligned, but with three-bit, you ALWAYS have to shift bits. Yuck. Also, It's been two and a half years since I read leviticus (or whatever the hell the early color-QD docs were called), but I seem to remember that there are a few fundamental assumptions made for color-QD that the number of bits is a power (or just multiple?) of two, though I could be wrong... >In article <1783@ccnysci.UUCP> alexis@ccnysci.UUCP (Alexis Rosen) writes: >.What about the huge number of people who bought 4-bit Apple boards? I >.often see people using 4-bit color. If they couldn't they would be >.very very unhappy. > >Interesting. Although I agree with you that the 4-bit mode should be >supported (if not for anything else, an 8-bit card should be able to double >buffering in 4-bit mode), I haven't seen anyone with just a 4-bit card after >the initial video-RAM crunch. It seems that if one can afford a Mac >II/IIcx/IIx one would be able to invest the extar $150 to get 8-bit video. Not really relevant. Lots of people have machines bought by company (or department) purchasing agent. They get color, because the PCs have color, but nobody thinks they need more, so they don't specifically look for it on the price lists. Also, it's just one more thing to think about. --- Alexis Rosen alexis@ccnysci.{uucp,bitnet} alexis@rascal.ics.utexas.edu (last resort)