kehr@felix.UUCP (Shirley Kehr) (10/04/88)
This was written to Charles Neil but didn't get through. I thought it of sufficient interest to post, hoping Mr Neil also sees it. He asked for more information about the DataDesk keyboard, specifically a real escape key and reasonably located control keys. Given these requirements I can't really recommend the DataDesk 101. It has no control key and the key you would consider the escape key is hard coded to Cancel (Command-period) and Undo (Command-Z while holding down shift with the cancel key). I love the feel of the keyboard and I was only concerned with cursor movement in Word, so it suits my purposes. I found that I needed to reporgram the keyboard with QuickKeys instead of DataDesk's own DA because it was incompat- ible with other DAs (Lookup at least). Also, you had to turn on the keyboard programming each session and after installing System Version 5 (Multifinder) the hot key combination to do this caused a bomb on the SEs at work. With QuickKeys, the keyboard is ready to use immediately after startup. Another manufacturer (Cutting Edge) makes a keyboard called CE 105. From what I can see in the ads, it looks like it has control keys (it appears to be layed out like the Apple extended keyboard. Does anyone on the net have any experience with this keyboard? I would call MacConnection or MacWarehouse as both advertise the CE keyboard for $135. I prefer the feel of the DataDesk keyboard over any other I've used, but in addition to the above problems, both the keyboard on the 512 and the one on the SE at my former job have "frozen up" producing garbage a few times. I believe the keyboard thinks you are holding down the command key. All you can do is use the mouse to save and restart. I wrote DataDesk about the incompatibilities mentioned above. They did not respond, while the people who wrote Lookup called to get more information. Since you've waited this long, you have one other option - to wait longer for the ADBridge that is supposed to let you put ADB devices on a non-ADB Mac (and vice versa). I recently saw a news item in either MacWorld or MacUser that this device is still being delayed by problems, but it sounded like they are still trying to get it out the door. Does anyone have any more specific information about this product? Hope this helps (and I hope we get our comp.sys.mac news again soon). Shirley Kehr
thecloud@dhw68k.cts.com (Ken McLeod) (05/13/89)
In article <13449@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> xxiaoye@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Xiaoxia Ye) writes: >The second complaint is specific to the use of Word 4.0 with DataDesk >keyboard. >I have been looking at an init that maps the datadesk keyboard (for >Mac Plus) to the apple extended keyboard. The init fools every software >into thinking that I have the extended keyboard. The confirmation for >this that MacroMaker treats the F5 on the DataDesk keyboard just like F5 >on Apple Extended keyboard, and Pageup pagedown etc, (although it maps the >Hoem keys as Help key on Apple Extended, because they are in the same >position). I also know that Word 4 is also fooled into thinking that >it is an Apple Extended keyboard because pageUp and PageDown keys will >scroll the text one screenful up and down respectively in Word ( a >feature that is specifically for the people blessed with Extended >keyboards). And when I am in the Command... dialog box assigning >different keystrokes to functions in Word, Word displays them as >F1..F15 properly as well. HOWEVER, when I tried to use the command >"Show Function Keys..." - which will show the function keys equivalents >for the menu items instead of Command Key equivalents (such as, F1 for >Cut instead of command-x), Word just would not do it. Toggling the "Show >Function Keys..." feature on and off just DOESN'T do a darn thing at >all. Is this a bug or that Word recognizes it's a fake Apple Extended >keyboard when it comes to showing function keys ???? Actually, it's not really either one. The problem (from a programming point of view) is that the DataDesk keyboard presents itself to the System as a garden-variety Mac Plus keyboard. Presumably, Word calls SysEnvirons() to determine keyboard type (or else it looks at the value stored in kbdType), and the value for a Plus keyboard is returned. Obviously, a Plus keyboard doesn't have function keys, so "Show Function Keys" fails. :-( Dealing with keyDown events is a different matter. Since (again, presumably) the same keyDown handling code is used in Word regardless of the type of keyboard attached, an event involving a function key will be noticed and processed accordingly (assuming an INIT like the QuicKeys DataDesk INIT has correctly remapped the virtual keycodes). To the best of my knowledge, there IS no way for a program to distinguish between the DataDesk and a standard Plus keyboard, unless you want to wait around for the user to hit "Page Up", or "F5", or whatever (an event which may never happen). You can't determine anything by calling the low-level key translation routines, since the mappings aren't influenced by whether a key is actually present. The point here is that the problems you experienced aren't Word's fault, since it believes (quite honestly, and in the "Apple-blessed manner") that you're using a standard Plus keyboard. (I'd sure like to hear from someone who knows how the low-level Event Manager keyboard polling routine works!) -ken -- ========== ....... ============================================= Ken McLeod :. .: UUCP: ...{spsd,zardoz,felix}!dhw68k!thecloud ========== :::.. ..::: INTERNET: thecloud@dhw68k.cts.com //// =============================================