ryland@mfci.UUCP (Chris Ryland) (04/26/89)
I have a serious complaint about the Apple ADB keyboards: they're junk. Any keyboard that doesn't have N-key rollover is junk. Their tactile quality is horrific, but this is more taste than science. Their layouts are damaged in subtle but important ways: they're not quite "ASCII typewriter standard" (e.g., with the "`~\|" keys down by the space bar on the standard keyboard, or with the ESC key out of reach on the extended keyboard). Ok, enough whining. What should we do about it? Why not form an "Open Keyboard Foundation" that would pool people's resources, and commission a Microswitch ADB keyboard? Microswitch still makes the best keyboards in the world (Apollo still uses them, for example, though Sun gave in long ago to the Taiwanese urge), and having a high-quality ADB keyboard would be a real boon to the Mac market. I would imagine that we'd need hundreds of people to share the NRE fees for such a keyboard, and it would still cost several hundred dollars each. I imagine we'd have to at least show a large amount of interest in such a product to get MS interested enough to consider it. Anyone interested? Reply to me by mail, and I'll summarize any interest. --Chris Ryland ryland@multiflow.com, ...!uunet!mfci!ryland
pv9y@vax5.CIT.CORNELL.EDU (04/27/89)
[various complaints about Apple keyboards, with which I agree] If commissioning Microswitch for a good Mac keyboard is too much of a pain, you might look at a keyboard put out by Ehman Engineering. It is a standard keyboard as far as layout goes, it has a space bar longer than my finger, and it has a feel very similar to an IBM PS/2 keyboard, which I personally like, though feel is completely a matter of taste. The Ehman keyboard was about $170 when I got it last summer, but it also came with CE Software's QuicKeys (warning: QuicKeys can be addictive!) which is $50 or so mail order. All in all, I'm extremely pleased with the keyboard and extremely pleased I didn't get an Apple extended keyboard. If I was just confusing, the Ehman is an extended keyboard with more keys than Apple's. The only drawback that I've found is that Apple keyboards and mice know to resent the ADB when they are unplugged and plugged back in. The Ehman doesn't know how to do this, so if I unplug it, I have to plug the mouse into the empty ADB port in back to get ADB to reset and recognize everything again. Adam Standard disclaimers apply to everything ever written.
tecot@Apple.COM (Ed Tecot) (05/15/89)
In article <815@m3.mfci.UUCP> ryland@multiflow.com (Chris Ryland) writes: >I have a serious complaint about the Apple ADB keyboards: they're >junk. Any keyboard that doesn't have N-key rollover is junk. FYI, The Extended Keyboard DOES have N-key rollover. Open up KeyCaps and see it yourself. >Ok, enough whining. What should we do about it? > >Why not form an "Open Keyboard Foundation" that would pool >people's resources, and commission a Microswitch ADB keyboard? >Microswitch still makes the best keyboards in the world (Apollo >still uses them, for example, though Sun gave in long ago to >the Taiwanese urge), and having a high-quality ADB keyboard would >be a real boon to the Mac market. From experience, I can tell you that keyboards are a religious issue; one person's ideal keyboard is another's monstrosity. Secretaries like Selectrics, there's a whole class of people who swear by VT100, and believe it or not, some even praise the IBM AT and Apple Extended keyboards. I doubt you can find 2, let alone 100 people to agree on a keyboard, but all the power to you. _emt
chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (05/15/89)
>>still uses them, for example, though Sun gave in long ago to >>the Taiwanese urge), I always *hated* Sun keyboards. I could never find one that felt comfortable, not even the beta/OSI/ergonomic/european ones. It's one of the few commercial keyboards I could consistently type faster than it could handle, too (I type 80WPM nominal, 120WPM in bursts. Except on Suns...) >Secretaries like >Selectrics, Generalize that to "serious typers love Selectrics" -- I have never, ever found a computer ekyboard that came close to even a selectric II keyboard in confort and feel, and the newer IBM typewriter's are even more wonderful. Not enough to make me give up word processors, but every so often I consider it.. >there's a whole class of people who swear by VT100, And another class that swear at it. My macs at home both have Datadesk 101 extended keyboards. They have the best feel of any keyboard I've run into. I'd use them at work, but non-Apple keyboards have problems on A/UX and they don't have a control key -- not a hassle under MacOS, but for plugging into a vax via MacTerminal or running A/UX. ... Also, there's no escape key, so you play games with the tilde. The original Mac keyboard reminded me of the old Commodore Pet chicklet keyboard. I have a couple sitting in storage, just in case, but I'll never use them unless I have to. The new Apple ADB keyboards aren't bad, although some of the key placements are funny -- there are enough differences between the standrd keyboard (on one of my machines) and the extended keyboard (on my A/UX machine) that I find I hit the wrong keys with some regularity. The location of the control key on the extended keyboard is ugly, which is why I haven't standardized on the extended yet. But as far as handling typing speed, comfort and feel, from someone who's a hard-core typer, both are just fine. Not perfect, but decent. Chuq Von Rospach =|= Editor,OtherRealms =|= Member SFWA/ASFA chuq@apple.com =|= CI$: 73317,635 =|= AppleLink: CHUQ [This is myself speaking. No company can control my thoughts.] Bookends. What a wonderful thought.