mha@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Mark H. Anbinder) (05/07/89)
Apple seems to have redesigned the ADB mouse without telling anyone about it... or at least *I* didn't hear about it until yesterday, when I picked one up at my local dealer when they couldn't fix my old one. At least AppleCare covers me! :-) The new mouse looks the same from the top; the only differences are on the underside and inside. First of all, the ring that holds the mouse ball inside has been replaced. Rather than being a nice, uniform, ridged ring, it's flat except for two recessed finger-holes that the user is meant to use to rotate the ring for mouse-ball removal. The edges of these finger holes are a bit sharp for my taste... they're beveled just enough not to cut your fingers. The new mouse ball is much, much lighter than the old one. It's black, and I suppose the only advantage to this is that you can see the dust on it more easily. The ball is also a bit smaller. This lightness makes it kind of difficult to get the ball out, since turning the mouse back over with the ring rotated to the open position no longer suffices to make the ball and ring drop off. You have to shake it, sometimes more than once, violently. This is not an improvement. Looking inside the mouse hole reveals what seems to be a better design. There are no open holes for dust to collect in; the rollers are a bit more recessed, so they will probably get dirty less easily. The ball- retaining ring also seems to be designed with a smaller opening so that less dust and oil will get inside, but we'll see over time. The mouse is lighter overall due to the lighter ball, and this causes problems with mouse control. The mouse is no longer quite heavy enough to hold itself on the mousing surface, either a desktop or a mouse pad. If the cord gets bent down slightly at the point where it enters the mouse, that alone is enough to hold the mouse off the surface, and moving it does not reflect properly with the cursor. I'm really curious why Apple redesigned the ADB mouse at all. And, since they did, why did they do it this way? They seem to have made a couple of minor improvements (involving the prevention of dirt buildup), but a couple of problems have been created, too. And, while they were redesigning, why didn't they do a more thorough job? I guess they didn't want to have to make a new case, just new innards and bottom. -- Mark H. Anbinder ** MHA@TCGould.tn.cornell.edu NG33 MVR Hall, Media Services Dept. ** THCY@CRNLVAX5.BITNET Cornell University H: (607) 257-7587 ******** Ithaca, NY 14853 W: (607) 255-1566 ******* Ego ipse custodies custudio
jfm@ruddles.sprl.umich.edu.engin.umich.edu (John F. Mansfield) (05/09/89)
> >I'm really curious why Apple redesigned the ADB mouse at all. And, since >they did, why did they do it this way? They seem to have made a couple >of minor improvements (involving the prevention of dirt buildup), but a >couple of problems have been created, too. And, while they were redesigning, >why didn't they do a more thorough job? I guess they didn't want to have >to make a new case, just new innards and bottom. > > My guess is they are now much cheaper to make. John Mansfield North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory 2455 Hayward, Ann Arbor, Michigan 48109-2143. 313-936-3352 Internet: jfm@ruddles.sprl.umich.edu or john_mansfield.um.cc.umich.edu
xerox@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (James Osborne) (05/09/89)
When I bought my SE last year, I was surprised to find that I had the "new" mouse. Well, after a year of use, I decided new is not necessarily improved. The mouse refused to track well vertically, which really rots when you have to use menus, which is 99.9% of the time. This happened even after I cleaned it. So... When my SEx box contained the nice heavy "old" mouse, I was more than happy to give it some friendly pats. -Jamie "Sorry! the file '.signature' has MIGRATED. *snicker, snicker*"
mnkonar@gorby.SRC.Honeywell.COM (Murat N. Konar) (05/09/89)
If I am not mistaken, the 'new' mice (light ball) are made in
Taiwan. The old mice (heavy ball) are made in the States.
Perhaps its just a matter of production scheduling that determines
where your mouse comes from. I have an old mouse and love it. I
played with a new mouse and I think they really, really suck. To
me, the mouse is a user's primary way to interact with the Mac. The
old mice gave one a very satisfying, physical feedback (not unlike
the steering on sports cars vs. power steering). They gave a sense
of quality. The new mice feel like a cheap imitation.
Shame on you Apple.
____________________________________________________________________
Have a day. :^|
Murat N. Konar Honeywell Systems & Research Center, Camden, MN
mnkonar@SRC.honeywell.com (internet) {umn-cs,ems,bthpyd}!srcsip!mnkonar(UUCP)davidp@skat.usc.edu (David Peterson) (05/09/89)
What I thought was neat about the "new mouse" was that you could change the locking ring and ball with those from a Logitech Series 2 (or later?) mouse...They're identical (except the color and the little teflon pad on the apple mouse) It doesn't explain anything, I just though it was neat :-) -dave.
weevil@nmtsun.nmt.edu (Jeff Eliasen) (05/09/89)
>[...] >To me, the mouse is a user's primary way to interact with the Mac. The >old mice gave one a very satisfying, physical feedback (not unlike >the steering on sports cars vs. power steering). They gave a sense >of quality. The new mice feel like a cheap imitation. Today's rhetoric question: When is Apple going to ship the Macintosh standard with optical mice? I figure maybe an increase in price of $50, which is small enough that it could probably be ignored... Apple, are you listening? - Jeffrey Eliasen - NewCo MexiTech
paul@mit-caf.MIT.EDU (Paul Meyer) (05/09/89)
In article <2600@nmtsun.nmt.edu> weevil@nmtsun.nmt.edu (Jeff Eliasen) writes: > >When is Apple going to ship the Macintosh standard with optical mice? I >- Jeffrey Eliasen >- NewCo MexiTech Don't optical mice require a special gridded mousepad for the mouse to reference? I usually use a mouse pad, but I'm not sure that I want to be forced to use one at all times. It's nice to use a clean desktop for mousing around when the pad isn't big enough. I hope apple doesn't switch to optical mice. If I am wrong in thinking that the special mousepad is required, I retract my comment. If it can be used on any flat surface I have no objection to Apple switching to it. -- | Paul Meyer | 4 days and counting... | | paul@caf.mit.edu | "You killed my true love" | | Microsystems Technology Laboratory | "It's possible. I kill a lot | | MIT | of people." |
jurjen@cwi.nl (Jurjen N.E. Bos) (05/09/89)
Does somebody now if you can get a mouse ball with the size of the new mouse, and the weight of the old ball? This would solve all problems. -- -- Jurjen N.E. Bos (jurjen@cwi.nl)
levin@bbn.com (Joel B Levin) (05/09/89)
Consider the A+ optical mouse from MSC -- you'll find it remarkably
like the Sun mouse, if you've used one :-). The only noticeable
change upon switching to that mouse was that I had to turn down the
mouse speed in the Control Panel a tick. Also, it comes with a
thinner, cheaper grid than the one that gets shipped with a Sun. But
I had already been using a mouse pad; I just stuck the grid sheet on
top of that. One mail order place has the ADB version for $79
(including expensive slowmail shipping), a good buy.
/JBL
UUCP: {backbone}!bbn!levin POTS: (617) 873-3463
INTERNET: levin@bbn.commnkonar@manyjars.SRC.Honeywell.COM (Murat N. Konar) (05/09/89)
In article <2600@nmtsun.nmt.edu> weevil@nmtsun.nmt.edu (Jeff Eliasen) writes: >When is Apple going to ship the Macintosh standard with optical mice? I >figure maybe an increase in price of $50, which is small enough that it >could probably be ignored... I have played with optical mice. We have optical mice on our Suns. Optical mice are not Mac mice. The optical mice I have played with have a number of problems (partial list follows): 1) They need that stupid grid pad. 2) They need to be oriented properly with the grids on the pad (ie. moving the mouse along the mouse's x axis will only move the cursor horizontally if the mouse is properly oriented with the grid. Try turning the mouse 90 degrees with respect to the normal orientation and see what happens) 3) (could be a hardware oversight but) On Suns, the faster you move the mouse the slower the cursor goes! Those of you who pay attention to your Macs should have noticed the cool mouse velocity sensitive mouse scaling. Conclusions: I am going to keep my mouse (early ADB) when I sell my Mac. (That is if I sell it to upgrade to another Mac. Who knows what the future will bring.) ____________________________________________________________________ Have a day. :^| Murat N. Konar Honeywell Systems & Research Center, Camden, MN mnkonar@SRC.honeywell.com (internet) {umn-cs,ems,bthpyd}!srcsip!mnkonar(UUCP)
newman@ut-emx.UUCP (Dave Newman) (05/09/89)
It is true, as far as I know, that optical mice require a grid
on which to work. However, it is not as bad as you might think.
Xerox mice use a fine grey grid that you can stick to your desk.
It is so thin that it might as well not be there. Also, unlike
some other mice, the orientation of the mouse to the pad is not
a problem. Finally, the size of the pad is also usually a problem.
When you get to the edge of the pad, you pick the mouse up and
move it back to the middle. This eventually becomes unconscious.
I really like the Xerox mice. I really hate most other mice.
If Apple goes to optical mice, I sincerely hope that they do it
right.
>>Davefreund@nsc.nsc.com (Bob Freund) (05/10/89)
Sure you can make a heavy mouse ball for the new mice. It looks like Plutonium might be just dense enough. :-) bob
fischer@arisia.Xerox.COM (Ronald A. Fischer) (05/10/89)
The Xerox optical mouse design was invented at PARC in the 70s. It uses a pad printed with a fine grid of hexagonal interlocked black and white dots and a special image recognizer chip in the mouse. The pattern on the pad is so fine that it looks like a solid gray unless you scrutinze it. The chip is mounted above an array of infrared leds that illuminate the pad. A lens and image conduit are molded into the bottom of the transparent chip case. The actual IC is mounted upside down in the case so that the lens can focus the pad image on a small CCD-like array built onto the chip's surface. The array is scanned by some recognition circuits that "watch" the white and black spots on the pad image shift left right up or down or on the diagonals. The chip outputs quadrature. Xerox optical mice are very small and lightweight. They slide easily on the plastic coated sheets that have adhesive to fasten them to your (real) desktop. I like them better than any other mouse I've ever used. These are also probably the cheapest mice in the world to manufacture. The case contains a tiny PC board that holds the single image recognizer chip, illumination leds and the three buttons. That's about all. The design is versatile too. A disabled person needed a less jumpy mouse and (being that this was Xerox) someone just photocopied the mouse pad on an enlarging copier, making the pattern bigger and response slower. There is probably a practical upper limit to this when the image chip no longer sees the pattern but only blobs covering the whole field. Personally, I think this mouse design is another example of the amazing work done at Xerox to bring their interface technology to the public. Perhaps Apple could license this technology and *really* decrease the cost of their mice while making them almost immune to dirt (you occasionally have to wipe off the pads that they slide on, but this is trivial compared to cleaning the little rollers in Apple mice). Another interesting packaging option would be to make a trackball with the hex pattern embedded in its surface and track it with the image recognizer chip. (ron) PS- To head off the complaints, there was a time when an odd problem caused the mice to "creep" when aligned in certain ways with the pad. This has been fixed for about two years. No one likes creepy mice ;-)
cbm@well.UUCP (Chris Muir) (05/10/89)
I _HATE_ optical mice. I hope Apple never standardizes on them. The pad is a
bother. Your movement is relative to the surface not to the mouse. I don't
see why people think they're the greatest.
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
Chris Muir | "There is no language in our lungs
{hplabs,pacbell,ucbvax,apple} | to tell the world just how we feel"
!well!cbm | - A. Partridgemr2t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Tod Rose) (05/10/89)
I just got a new IIx at work, with one of the new mice. I *like* the new mouse. It's lighter and easier to maneuver. On a (slick) mouse pad it cruises along just fine. After a while the old ADB mice felt like clunkers, and my Plus mouse at home seems to be made of lead. (Oh my God! Look at him! He's been buried in a slew of new-mouse hating flames!! Oh NOOOOOOO!!) Just my 2 cents, -mike ######################################################################### Mike Rose "I hope that one or two immortal lyrics will come mr2t+@andrew.cmu.edu out of all this tumbling around." Class of 1991 (I hope!) -Poet Louise Bogan on her affair Disclaimer: I work for a with poet Theo Roethke newspaper; they relish my opinions.
jonathan@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Jonathan Altman) (05/10/89)
Well, I guess I'll jump into the optical vs. mechanical mouse debate. I vote strongly FOR the mechanical mouse. The main reason is one of what I (non-computer scientist that I am) perceive to be a modality inherent in optical mice. It works by moving the mouse around, right? But, only when on the special grid. And, only if it's aligned a certain way. Sorry, I feel that a mouse should work no matter what I scroll it around on, and at what angle I hold it. Besides my Mac is (relatively) portable. I DO travel with it. I move it around my office in one piece. I DO NOT want to have to move a stupid gridded pad around. I do not even want to HAVE a mouse pad. This brings up the next point, reliability. I got my first mac in September 1984, very early. I just recently sold that first Mac (upgraded to a plus) in February, 1989, 4.5 years (about) after I bought it. It still had the original mouse. It didn't wear out, nor did it get dirty, despite living in my various dorm rooms, apartments, etc. It also didn't mind the fact that I tend to eat at my desk when I'm writing. I don't know what the rest of you do to your mice, but mine doesn't get dirty. I now have a Mac SE/30. I was happy to get the new mouse because I like the design better (I don't think anybody else has brought this up, but I think the ergonomics of the ADB mouse are wonderful-thanks, Apple). I noticed the cheaper construction on my mouse (I have the light-ball one), but not while I'm using it. It doesn't get dirty either. As for the nicety that somebody noticed about XEROX being able to adjust the mouse tracking speed by making an enlarged copy of the grid, let me say that this is just a wonderful apology for optical mouse pads. Sure, I need to slow down the mouse. That copying machine is a LOT cheaper than adjusting the speed of my mouse with software. Right. Besides, I have a nice wood desk. The last thing I want to do is put contact paper on it. And isn't it great that if I want to CHANGE mouse tracking speeds constantly (like between applications), I've got to keep several different sets of contact paper handy to change speeds. Sorry, until somebody comes up with a mouse that has no moving parts, and stays clean, the optical-vs-mechanical debate will rage, and I'll prefer a mouse that's usable on any surface that has friction in an atmosphere with gravity, in any orientation. It's more obvious to "the rest of us." Also, please excuse what seems to be a flame at the poster of the article about XEROX mice. As far as optical mice go, it's a great solution. I also agree that a trackball based on their design would be great, as would their mouse, if it didn't require a special pattern to be present to work. Jonathan Altman jonathan@eleazar.Dartmouth.edu Database Administrator jonathan.altman@Dartmouth.edu Dartmouth Dante Project voice: 603-646-2633 301 Bartlett Hall HB 6087 Hanover, NH 03755
thorn@godot.radonc.unc.edu (Jesse Thorn) (05/11/89)
In article <12893@ut-emx.UUCP> newman@emx.UUCP (David Newman) writes: > >It is true, as far as I know, that optical mice require a grid >on which to work. However, it is not as bad as you might think. >Xerox mice use a fine grey grid that you can stick to your desk. >It is so thin that it might as well not be there. Also, unlike >some other mice, the orientation of the mouse to the pad is not >a problem. Finally, the size of the pad is also usually a problem. I think the Xerox mice for the D machines were made by Logitech. When I last used them the mouse pad consisted of a piece of heavy paper. The pattern was so small that the paper looked solid grey. When magnified, the pattern turned out to be a honeycomb with white cells and black walls. The pad was typically covered with a thin piece of clear plastic (to prevent wear and tear - the pad was only paper) and then taped to desk. It worked fine. Had no problem with mouse orientation. (BTW I had a pair of wool pants with a herringbone pattern that also worked as a pad with the mice!) Optical mice can be nice. (Sorry about that.) Jesse Thorn -- >> Disclaimer? Hah! If Dan Quayle doesn't need one then I certainly don't. >> UUCP: ...!mcnc!godot!thorn >> INTERNET: thorn@godot.radonc.unc.edu
chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (05/11/89)
>Well, I guess I'll jump into the optical vs. mechanical mouse debate. Lots of good reasons why people shouldn't use optical mice. Let me counterpoint, since I happen to *really* like optical mice. I've used a number of mice over time -- the original Mac mouse, the ADB Mac mouse, the A+ optical mouse and optical mice on the Sun. My preference, very strongly, is the optical mouse. One reason is that mechanical mice depend very strongly on the surface they're moved on. A rough surface makes the mouse jumpy. A slick surface can keep the mouse from working at all. Getting delicate placement and consistent movement out of a mechanical mouse (when you're doing something like freehand drawing in a draw program, for instance) can be problematic. Friction between the ball and the surface and the ball and the internal parts means that the mouse is going to jump about a lot in very small increments. This isn't a problem when moving around on the desktop. It's a royal pain when all of those movements show up in in your drawing and need to be pulled back out. The optical mouse has the advantage of consistency. If you move the mouse smoothly, the movement to the computer will be smooth. If you move it x distance, the computer will register it as x -- not x minus some friction coefficient that changes from surface to surface. You find the need for a pad to be a problem. I don't. As long as I'm going to need desk space for my mouse, the mouse-pad is a space that says *very* clearly "keep clean" -- no matter how messy my desk gets, there's always a clean spot for my mouse. I'm not one of these people who can simply put the mouse down on whatever's convenient and hack away. Having used both optical and mechanical mice on a Mac, I go with the optical any chance I can. The consistency of movement and accuracy of placement outweigh any disadvantages an optical mouse might have. For me, I hasten to add. >And, only if it's aligned a >certain way. Sorry, I feel that a mouse should work no matter what I >scroll it around on, and at what angle I hold it. Interesting theory. Practically speaking, I never consciously have trouble with being out of alignment on the grid. Experience using it might be part of it, but the grid is actually fairly forgiving. >Besides my Mac is >(relatively) portable. I DO travel with it. I move it around my >office in one piece. I DO NOT want to have to move a stupid gridded >pad around. I do not even want to HAVE a mouse pad. Because of above, whenever I move my Mac, I take a mouse pad -- it's small, it's light, and it guarantees that if I put my mac down on a glass-top table I don't have to turn the silly thing over and play trackball just to get enough friction to move the cursor. Doing without a mouse pad is great, until you run into a slick surface. >This brings up the next point, reliability. I got my first mac in >September 1984, very early. I just recently sold that first Mac >(upgraded to a plus) in February, 1989, 4.5 years (about) after I >bought it. It still had the original mouse. I still have one of my two original Mac mice. Neither wore out, but the second one got eaten by a cockatoo one evening. Both of my macs at home have optical mice, and there is no mechanical wear so I expect them to outlive the computers. >It didn't wear out, >nor did it get dirty, despite living in my various dorm rooms, >apartments, etc. I did have problems with my mechanical mice getting dirty and becoming hard to move around (gunk on the rollers). Cleaning them every couple of months takes 10 minutes and saves a lot of hassle. The optical mice never need cleaning... All this really proves, of course, is that you should work with both and use the one you find you prefer. Both types of mice have advantages and disadvantages, and it all depends on what is important to you. Chuq Von Rospach =|= Editor,OtherRealms =|= Member SFWA/ASFA chuq@apple.com =|= CI$: 73317,635 =|= AppleLink: CHUQ [This is myself speaking. No company can control my thoughts.] Bookends. What a wonderful thought.
dwells@Apple.COM (Dave Wells) (05/11/89)
In article <2312@mit-caf.MIT.EDU> paul@mit-caf.UUCP (Paul Meyer) writes: >In article <2600@nmtsun.nmt.edu> weevil@nmtsun.nmt.edu (Jeff Eliasen) writes: >>When is Apple going to ship the Macintosh standard with optical mice? I > > Don't optical mice require a special gridded mousepad for the mouse >to reference? I usually use a mouse pad, but I'm not sure that I want to >be forced to use one at all times. It's nice to use a clean desktop for >mousing around when the pad isn't big enough. I hope apple doesn't switch >to optical mice. > If I am wrong in thinking that the special mousepad is required, >I retract my comment. If it can be used on any flat surface I have no >objection to Apple switching to it. Yick! I've yet to see an optical mouse that I like. With or without the required grid-pad, they just do not provide the tactile feedback of standard "roller-ball" mice. Well, okay. The tactile feedback that _I_ like anyway. -Dave -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Dave Wells, Apple Computer, Inc. MS: 37-O (408) 974-5515 Mail: dwells@apple.com or AppleLink d.wells or GEnie D.WELLS These opinions may be nothing more than the ramblings of a fatigued tinkerer -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
siegel@endor.harvard.edu (Rich Siegel) (05/11/89)
In article <30434@apple.Apple.COM> chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: > >Because of above, whenever I move my Mac, I take a mouse pad -- it's small, >it's light, and it guarantees that if I put my mac down on a glass-top table >I don't have to turn the silly thing over and play trackball just to get >enough friction to move the cursor. Doing without a mouse pad is great, >until you run into a slick surface. I have found that in the absence of a good surface (or any at all!), that the fabric used in Levi Strauss brand 505 jeans works very well, especially when wrapped around one or more of my legs. :-) --Rich ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rich Siegel Staff Software Developer Symantec Corporation, Language Products Group Internet: siegel@endor.harvard.edu UUCP: ..harvard!endor!siegel "She told me to make myself comfortable, so I pulled down my pants and sat in the pudding." -Emo Phillips ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
fischer@arisia.Xerox.COM (Ronald A. Fischer) (05/11/89)
To re-emphasize a comment made previously, unlke all other optical mice, the Xerox mouse's output is not dependent on the rotation of the pad, only on the direction the hex grid on the pad slides under the mouse itself. Unlike the perpendicular stripes on the Mouse Systems pad used by Sun, the hex pattern has no rotation as far as the recognizer chip is concerned. I have my mouse in hand now and its odd to turn it sideways and try to control, just like a rollerball mouse (I'm sending this from a Xerox AI Workstation connected to a UNIX system). (ron)
fischer@arisia.Xerox.COM (Ronald A. Fischer) (05/11/89)
Oddly enough its a shared joke at Xerox that their optical mouse works on jeans too. In fact, it does, but the vertical tracking gets sluggish. (ron)
d88-jwa@nada.kth.se (Jon W{tte) (05/11/89)
I couldn't keep out any longer.
People say that the mechanical mouse gets dirty and doesn't always
have friction, so they prefer optical mouses, who use pads. But if
you use a pad with the mechanical mouse, it doesn't get dirty, it
doesn't skid and you still can use it WITHOUT the pad TOO. So, in
my opinion, the mechanical mouse is more flexible, it can have all
of the advantages of an optical mouse, if you limit them as much
as optical mouses are limited, and you still have the choice to
throw the pad away, roll the mouse on the floor (or on top of my
SE, something I did once, playing as a DJ and having all my records
with titles and BPM numbers in a Hypercard stack... quite convenient,
No more "Dunno, but it sounds familiar" when people ask about some
records I usually don't play.)
Oh, and about the jeans, I myself prefer Levi 501, but that may be
up to personal taste (as well as optical/machanical mouse decisions) :-)
Hopefully the mouses travel as smoothly on Levi jeans as on any other
canvas trousers, I wouldn't make any commercial statement.
Since the ADB mouse is nice-looking, easy to handle, has a solid feel
and coordinates better with my post-brutal furniture than my IBM AT
clone's mouse, I feel that Apple can continue with the ADB mouse with
confidence.
By the way: when do we se an INERTIAL mouse? No grids, no pads, no
moving parts, you don't even have to have a table :-) And the '#' is
called SAWMILL on my maps, maybe it isn't outside Sweden?
--
h+@nada.kth.se <>,, "Hmm. What's this green fish called? I think I will
Jon W{tte (:))))=- call it Lunch. Hi, Lunch!" -- A fish called Wanda
Oh NO! A bug! <>'' -Say Kids, what time is it? -It's Time For A House.
Dizco me to XtaC! -OH LA LAAA! -- Jack to the sound of the undergroundDavid.Bolduc@f54.n382.z1.FIDONET.ORG (David Bolduc) (05/11/89)
I know this isn't the place for this, but I need some help from someone at MIT. I'm working on a redistricting project in Texas, and remember an article in MacUser or MacWorld (I think) some time back about a group at MIT that had done a project on Macs for the Massachusetts legislature. I've since had a fire, so can't find the article, and have not been able to find it in any index. I also seem to remember that the redistricting package was being taken commercial, and that those involved may have left MIT. Can you help me track down anyone involved so that I can find out if the product or any version of it is available or for sale? I'll be almost eternally grateful. DAVID BOLDUC -- David Bolduc via cmhGate - Net 226 fido<=>uucp gateway Col, OH UUCP: ...!osu-cis!n8emr!cmhgate!382!54!David.Bolduc
tal@lll-crg.llnl.gov (Thomas A Longstaff) (05/11/89)
O.K., now that the optical vs. mechanical debate has raged again,
perhaps it's time for a new solution. What if Apple made you buy the
mouse separately? Remember the time when the keyboard was part of the
mac you bought? No longer because, after all, people may want
different keyboards. I know, I know, Apple only offers one
mouse/machine configuration so they should include it. Wouldn't want
you to go out any buy that nasty 3-party stuff, would we? Like
3rd-party keyboards?
Maybe if Apple came out with an optical mouse and offered it as an
option, everyone would be happy (for a couple of nanoseconds anyway).
Tom Longstaff Lawrence Livermore Natl Lab
415-423-4416 L-542, Box 808
longstaf@frostedflakes.llnl.gov Livermore, CA 94550
{lll-crg,harvard,sun,dual,rutgers,seismo,ihnp4}!lll-lcc!longstaf
Tom Longstaff Lawrence Livermore Natl Lab
415-423-4416 L-542, Box 808
longstaf@frostedflakes.llnl.gov Livermore, CA 94550
{lll-crg,harvard,sun,dual,rutgers,seismo,ihnp4}!lll-lcc!longstafmikey@ontek.UUCP (Mike Lee) (05/13/89)
Trackballs are the neatest way to race around the screen. You don't have to worry about bumping into things on your desk, you don't have to wipe their balls (that's NOT what I mean...) you don't have to buy a special pad to make them work, and you don't strangle your wrist on the cord. You can all make your whiney little comments about light & heavy mice, ADB, CCD, et al until you're screens turn blue, but I'll stick with my good ol' Kensington Turbo Mouse, thank you very much. Mike Lee ...uunet!ontek!mikey "What? No cute quotation?"
vogelei@nmtsun.nmt.edu (Todd Vogelei) (05/14/89)
In article <25034@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV| tal@lll-crg.llnl.gov.UUCP (Thomas A Longstaff) writes: | |O.K., now that the optical vs. mechanical debate has raged again, |perhaps it's time for a new solution. What if Apple made you buy the |mouse separately? Remember the time when the keyboard was part of the |mac you bought? |...Apple only offers one |mouse/machine configuration so they should include it. Wouldn't want |you to go out any buy that nasty 3-party stuff, would we? Like |3rd-party keyboards? | |Maybe if Apple came out with an optical mouse and offered it as an |option, everyone would be happy (for a couple of nanoseconds anyway). I wouldn't be happy at all, I *HATE* mice! They take up all that desk space. Make me knock over my coffee and push my papers on the floor..... I *LIKE* trackballs (i use the kensington turbo mouse and THIS device gives me more control and speed than any Soapbar-sliding-on-the-table-mouse, optical or otherwise ever gave me. I hate to even call it a mouse. I call it a turtle ('cause the ball seems sort of like a turtle shell). I say "DEATH TO MICE, LONG LIVE THE TURTLE") |Tom Longstaff Lawrence Livermore Natl Lab |415-423-4416 L-542, Box 808 |longstaf@frostedflakes.llnl.gov Livermore, CA 94550 |{lll-crg,harvard,sun,dual,rutgers,seismo,ihnp4}!lll-lcc!longstaf Todd vogelei@nmtsun
mlloyd@maths.tcd.ie (Michael Lloyd) (05/17/89)
In article <295@ontek.UUCP> mikey@ontek.UUCP (Mike Lee) writes: >Trackballs are the neatest way to race around the screen. You don't >... Yeah - I had been thinking of making a similar comment for a while now. I really do like trackballs since they dont require extra table space, and I personally respond well to that method of making the pointer move. However, I would say two things; 1) They are not really to everyone`s liking. There are those even in this lab who cannot tolerate the device. They complain about the angle of the object, or that they think they have to roll it the `wrong` way 2) I think the button design needs a LOT of work. I had expected the side buttons to move IN, not DOWN, so you could just about keep a thumb over a side button whilst rolling the ball, then apply a little grip to send a click. This is not how it goes - you do have to stop and actually press the button. I dont like it much. Neither do I like the way the `click and hold` button "locks" the machine until it is re-clicked. This can cause a lot of confusion if you use the wrong mouse button at certain moments, and then find nothing else will work till you realise what you have done. This second complaint applies specifically to the Kensington Turbo job, but I think it is equally true of the competition. Having griped, I would like to repeat that I think Trackballs are the best pointing devices for general use. Whaddya think? > >Mike Lee >...uunet!ontek!mikey another Mike. Mike Lloyd, Dept of Statistics, |"Does anyone understand what is happening? .. Trinity College, Dublin, | They tell me this is living - Ireland. | They tell me this is LIFE!" (mlloyd@maths.tcd.ie) | - Michael Been, of "The Call"
shani@TAURUS.BITNET (05/17/89)
In article <738@arisia.Xerox.COM>, fischer@arisia.Xerox.COM (Ronald A. Fischer) > Unlike the perpendicular stripes on the Mouse Systems > pad used by Sun, the hex pattern has no rotation as far as the > recognizer chip is concerned. Back to the old hex solution again :-) Bees have figured that out millions of years ago... Why didn't any of us think about it before?? O.S.
ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM (Norman Goodger) (05/19/89)
In article <2600@nmtsun.nmt.edu> weevil@nmtsun.nmt.edu (Jeff Eliasen) writes: >Today's rhetoric question: >When is Apple going to ship the Macintosh standard with optical mice? I >figure maybe an increase in price of $50, which is small enough that it >could probably be ignored... >- Jeffrey Eliasen While perhaps being a rhetorical question, I for one would not want an optical mouse. They require those reflective pads. If you mouse at angles to the x/y pattern on the pad, the mouse movement is strange. I prefer a trackball myself, no worries about dirty mice, much more sensative and accurate than a mouse. The only place I've seen a mouse work better than a trackball is some games. Other than that trackballs IMHO are much better than mice and significantly better than optical mice...
gillies@p.cs.uiuc.edu (05/20/89)
> I for one would not want an optical mouse. They require those > reflective pads. If you mouse at angles to the x/y pattern on the pad, > the mouse movement is strange. You haven't used the a good optical mouse. The Xerox optical mouse uses a grey sheet of paper (use copier to make more), works at ANY ANGLE, and costs about $5 to manufacture. The only disadvantage of that mouse is it's hard to get 1 pixel increments, because the high friction makes the first move a big one.