heath@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Todd Heatherton) (05/25/89)
Two weeks ago I posted a request for help in dealing with some folders
which refused to die. I had some good advice like rebuilding the
desktop or using disk repair (and from good people like Stephan Somogyi
at McUserLabs and Clark Anderson at apple.com). Unfortunately, *NOTHING
WORKED*!!! In fact, it gets weirder.
Summary of Problem - Five folders which will not disappear off an FX-60.
The five folders are empty except one which had an invisible file. All
folders report being inited and changing that does not allow them to
be killed.
1. Using MacTools I made a file which was in one the folders appear on
the desktop. You can throw the file in the trash and empty the
trash. The folder then says it has nothing in it and the trash
says that it has nothing in it. The next time you open the folder,
the file will have reappered!
2. There have been a mix of error messages. When you try to throw out
the folders via DeskTop 1.4, you get the message that the folder
couldn't be thrown out (unknown error). At other times it reports
error -127. (Once we got a -51 error message).
3. Programs like SUM are unable to verify the volume (an FX-60).
4. Disk Repair will not run on the volume - reports unable to verify.
Does anyone have any other things to try? Should we just have her
reinitialize her hard disk. She is starting to have weird system crashes
and is worried that existing files and programs will get messed up (she
does have the whole thing backed up on tape).
--
************************************************************************
Todd Heatherton Department of Psychology University of Toronto
Phone: 416-978-6387 (office) Email: heath@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca
416-482-4847 (home) or heath@psych.utoronto.ca
************************************************************************englandr@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Scott Englander) (05/26/89)
In article <1989May25.094147.5884@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> heath@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Todd Heatherton) writes: >Summary of Problem - Five folders which will not disappear off an FX-60. OK. Here's something that i've tried with a "normal" folder, and i bet it would work on one that's sold its soul. Open ResEdit. Select the folder. Choose CLEAR from the edit menu. Click the OK button in the dialog box that asks if you really want to delete it. Voila. -- - Scott
ollef@osiris.sics.se (Olle Furberg) (05/26/89)
In article <1989May25.094147.5884@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> heath@gpu.utcs.utoronto .ca (Todd Heatherton) writes: > >Summary of Problem - Five folders which will not disappear off an FX-60. >The five folders are empty except one which had an invisible file. All >folders report being inited and changing that does not allow them to >be killed. I also have this problem.(System 6.02, a lot of inits & cdevs) I've got a single folder on my HD and according to ResEdit, MacTools, Fedit and MacSnoop (and many other pgms) this folder should be empty. However Disktools II says that there are 3 items in the folder, but doesn't show them. I have no problems to open the folder in finder or copy and delete files I put in it. But there is no way to delete this weird folder in finder, or by any of these programs: I always get a message of type -47, i.e. file is busy. In article <1989May15.103346.5557@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>, Todd writes: >If she copies the folders to >a floppy, she can see that there is nothing in the folders and can throw >them out. Maybe the best solution is to make a file by file backup of the drive using e.g. Diskfit, reinitialize the drive and then reinstall all the files. One question is: Is it possible to get a full backup (modulo the weird folders) either by Diskfit (HD to Floppies) or Finder (HD to HD)? But: Why does this happen? This is just as mysterious as the BNDL-bit-on- -documents problem. /Olle
rcbaab@eutrc3.UUCP (Annard Brouwer) (05/26/89)
In article <1989May25.094147.5884@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> heath@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Todd Heatherton) writes: >Does anyone have any other things to try? Should we just have her >reinitialize her hard disk. She is starting to have weird system crashes >and is worried that existing files and programs will get messed up (she >does have the whole thing backed up on tape). If you have the whole thing backed up on tape it wouldn't hurt to low-format the drive... If the drive is corrupt you can find out by then and mark the bad sectors. Just my five cents of opinion... Good luck! name : Annard Brouwer address: Dreef 74 BITNET : RCGBBAAB@HEITUE51 5504 LD Veldhoven UUCP : rcbaab@eutrc3.uucp the Netherlands -- name : Annard Brouwer address: Dreef 74 BITNET : RCGBBAAB@HEITUE51 5504 LD Veldhoven UUCP : rcbaab@eutrc3.uucp the Netherlands
peter@aucs.UUCP (Peter Steele) (05/26/89)
> Two weeks ago I posted a request for help in dealing with some folders > which refused to die. I had some good advice like rebuilding the > desktop or using disk repair (and from good people like Stephan Somogyi > at McUserLabs and Clark Anderson at apple.com). Unfortunately, *NOTHING > WORKED*!!! In fact, it gets weirder. I've had problems like that in the past. Just last night in fact. I usually just ignore it and try again later (after a re-boot) and I've always been able to get rid of them. -- Peter Steele, Microcomputer Applications Analyst Acadia University, Wolfville, NS, Canada B0P1X0 (902)542-2201x121 UUCP: {uunet|watmath|utai|garfield}!dalcs!aucs!Peter BITNET: Peter@Acadia Internet: Peter%Acadia.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
samalone@athena.mit.edu (Stuart A. Malone) (05/27/89)
>Todd Heatherton writes: > >Summary of Problem - Five folders which will not disappear off an FX-60. >The five folders are empty except one which had an invisible file. All >folders report being inited and changing that does not allow them to >be killed. I'm pretty sure the program you need is Disk First Aid, which comes on one of the Utilities disks from Apple. I've found it to be effective against mysteriously disappearing disk space (which happens only when I write buggy Pascal code) and against Folders from Hell (which seems to happen at random). These problems are different from the file recovery problems that other disk utilities are designed to solve. Boot from a floppy containing a System, Finder, and Disk First Aid. Do not use MultiFinder. Run Disk First Aid, select the troublesome disk and click "Open", check off the "Repair Automatically" menu option, and click "Start". (If you would like to see some status messages, you can type Command-S before you click "Start", but this isn't necessary.) Disk First Aid should solve your problem. --Stuart A. Malone samalone@athena.mit.edu
ollef@osiris.sics.se (Olle Furberg) (05/27/89)
In article <11696@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> samalone@athena.mit.edu (Stuart A. Malone) writes: >>Todd Heatherton writes: >> >>Summary of Problem - Five folders which will not disappear off an FX-60. >>The five folders are empty except one which had an invisible file. All >>folders report being inited and changing that does not allow them to >>be killed. > >I'm pretty sure the program you need is Disk First Aid, which comes on one of >the Utilities disks from Apple. I've found it to be effective against >mysteriously disappearing disk space (which happens only when I write buggy >Pascal code) and against Folders from Hell (which seems to happen at random). No, it doesn't work. I've tried with both version 1.2 and 1.41. Disk First Aid says that the disk could not be verified. I've also tried DeskZap. Todd Heatherton also writes: >Should we just have her >reinitialize her hard disk. She is starting to have weird system crashes >and is worried that existing files and programs will get messed up (she >does have the whole thing backed up on tape). Are you sure that the backup does not contain the weird folder in embryo? If the backup does not contain the weird folder the answer is YES. Otherwise: what sort of backup are you talking about? I've just removed my weird folder by reformatting the disk. I used DiskFit to backup and restore all my files. Diskfit uses a file by file strategy so no damaged file or folder could be copied. If the backup is a facebackup (block by block) the problem will probably show up again. /Olle
heath@utpsych.toronto.edu (Todd Heatherton) (05/28/89)
In article <11696@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> samalone@athena.mit.edu (Stuart A. Malone) writes: >>Todd Heatherton writes: >> >>Summary of Problem - Five folders which will not disappear off an FX-60. >>The five folders are empty except one which had an invisible file. All >>folders report being inited and changing that does not allow them to >>be killed. > >I'm pretty sure the program you need is Disk First Aid, which comes on one of >the Utilities disks from Apple. I've found it to be effective against >mysteriously disappearing disk space (which happens only when I write buggy >Pascal code) and against Folders from Hell (which seems to happen at random). >These problems are different from the file recovery problems that other disk >utilities are designed to solve. > >Boot from a floppy containing a System, Finder, and Disk First Aid. Do not use >MultiFinder. Run Disk First Aid, select the troublesome disk and click "Open", >check off the "Repair Automatically" menu option, and click "Start". (If you >would like to see some status messages, you can type Command-S before you click >"Start", but this isn't necessary.) Disk First Aid should solve your problem. > This was completely unsuccesful since Disk First Aid said it was unable to verify the disk. The repair automatically feature didn't do a thing. I have received detailed and excellent advice on fixing the problem using resedit or SUM tools and will try this on Monday. This is certainly a strange problem, but from the mail I've received it apprears that it is not a unique problem. I will save net space by summarizing the solution when one is found (and, of course, if all else fails I will use a quick slap to the side of the computer--that always worked with old televisions :-)) Thanks to all who have offered aid--it certainly is a puzzling case
storm@sun209..nas.nasa.gov (Steve Storm) (06/02/89)
I too have folders that won't go away because they are always busy and
never empty. Very strange. I'm almost glad that others are having the
same problem. Makes me feel it's not something dumb I have done to the
Mac. The only answer I know is full backup, initialization, and restore.
I've avoded doing that out of laziness and frustration. ("D**n it, I
_SHOULD_ be able to erase those folders!") So they live in another
folder called "Should be empty" until someone finds a more elegant
solution.
As we endure storms, | storm@prandtl.nas.nasa.gov
So we receive rainbows. | (415) 694-4334cousens@elbereth.rutgers.edu (Scott Cousens) (06/03/89)
In article <2164@amelia.nas.nasa.gov> storm@sun209..nas.nasa.gov (Steve Storm) writes: > I too have folders that won't go away because they are always busy and > never empty. Very strange. I'm almost glad that others are having the I have missed much of the discussion on this, so I apologize if this has already been mentioned. The folders possibly have hidden files. Use MacTools (files only) or ResEdit to make the invisible folders or file visible, and then delete them. Hope this helps. Scott. -- Scott Cousens (The Fuz) | "Real users never know what they want, cousens@hardees.rutgers.edu | BUT, they know how to complain when rutgers!hardees.rutgers.edu!cousens | they dont get it!" "I'm an incast outcast" | Gudday - The Fuz.