engber@shorty.CS.WISC.EDU (Mike Engber) (05/31/89)
Has anyone else had problems booting an SE/30 with an external SCSI drive attached, but not powered up. This seems like the same problem a mac+ with old ROMs has. Did Apple make the same mistake twice? (the drive I used was a CMS 40M) -ME
lauac@qal.qal.berkeley.edu (Alexander Lau) (05/31/89)
In article <7598@spool.cs.wisc.edu> engber@shorty.cs.wisc.edu (Mike Engber) writes: >Has anyone else had problems booting an SE/30 with an external SCSI >drive attached, but not powered up. This seems like the same problem >a mac+ with old ROMs has. Did Apple make the same mistake twice? >(the drive I used was a CMS 40M) >-ME Nah, it's not Apple's fault. All SCSI devices on a chain must be on. That includes your external drive, since it's connected. --- Alex UUCP: {att,backbones}!ucbvax!qal.berkeley.edu!lauac INTERNET: lauac%qal.berkeley.edu@ucbvax.berkeley.edu FIDONET: Alex.Lau@bmug.fidonet.org (1:161/444)
cyosta@taux01.UUCP ( Yossie Silverman ) (05/31/89)
In article <25065@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> lauac@qal.qal.berkeley.edu (Alexander Lau) writes: .In article <7598@spool.cs.wisc.edu> engber@shorty.cs.wisc.edu (Mike Engber) writes: .>Has anyone else had problems booting an SE/30 with an external SCSI .>drive attached, but not powered up. This seems like the same problem .>a mac+ with old ROMs has. Did Apple make the same mistake twice? .>(the drive I used was a CMS 40M) .>-ME . .Nah, it's not Apple's fault. All SCSI devices on a chain must be on. .That includes your external drive, since it's connected. . .--- Alex .UUCP: {att,backbones}!ucbvax!qal.berkeley.edu!lauac .INTERNET: lauac%qal.berkeley.edu@ucbvax.berkeley.edu .FIDONET: Alex.Lau@bmug.fidonet.org (1:161/444) Bull. I have a Jasmine DD70 connected with the original Jasmine cable and the terminator resistors left in. My SE/30 boots fine with the drive on OR off. Once the SE/30 is on, I can change my mind and turn on the DD70, restart the SE/30 and it too will mount. To turn it off I suppose I should Shutdown, turn it off and click restart. It works as expected, no hastle - Yossie -- Yossie Silverman What did the Caspian sea? National Semiconductor Ltd. (Israel) - Saki UUCP: cyosta%taux01@nsc.COM NSA LSD FBI KGB PCP CIA MOSAD NUCLEAR MI5 SPY ASSASSINATE SDI -- OOCLAY ITAY
kaufman@polya.Stanford.EDU (Marc T. Kaufman) (05/31/89)
In article <25065@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> lauac@qal.qal.berkeley.edu (Alexander Lau) writes: >In article <7598@spool.cs.wisc.edu> engber@shorty.cs.wisc.edu (Mike Engber) writes: ->Has anyone else had problems booting an SE/30 with an external SCSI ->drive attached, but not powered up. This seems like the same problem ->a mac+ with old ROMs has. Did Apple make the same mistake twice? ->(the drive I used was a CMS 40M) ->-ME >Nah, it's not Apple's fault. All SCSI devices on a chain must be on. >That includes your external drive, since it's connected. It's not Apple's fault -- but that's not the reason. The problem is that the TERMINATORS need to be powered up in order to run the SCSI bus. Prior to the Mac II, terminator power was NOT supplied by the Mac, so that the peripheral at the end of the chain had to supply its own power. With the Mac II and later systems, terminator power is supplied at the SCSI connector, but I have discovered that many disk controller boards do not have provision for accepting terminator power from the bus -- hence the device with the terminators must be powered up. Intermediate (non terminated) devices do not need to be powered up for the bus to run. Marc Kaufman (kaufman@polya.stanford.edu)
nrc@vax5.CIT.CORNELL.EDU (05/31/89)
In article <7598@spool.cs.wisc.edu> engber@shorty.cs.wisc.edu (Mike Engber) writes: >Has anyone else had problems booting an SE/30 with an external SCSI >drive attached, but not powered up. This seems like the same problem >a mac+ with old ROMs has. Did Apple make the same mistake twice? >(the drive I used was a CMS 40M) Yes, I don't know why it should matter to the Mac whether or not the drive is powered up, but the machine knows it's connected to a SCSI device that doesn't respond. I just leave my cable dangling when I don't need the drive. -> Mark Yeager mdyj@crnlvax5
Fabian@cup.portal.com (Fabian Fabe Ramirez) (06/01/89)
Mike, SCSI termination is the problem. If the external SCSI device is off, then its termination circuitry will only function properly when the device is turned on. Otherwise, try either a long or shorter SCSI cable. Fabian Ramirez SuperMac Technology fabian@cup.portal.com sun!cup.portal.com!fabian
gae@sphere.mast.ohio-state.edu (Gerald Edgar) (06/01/89)
In article <7598@spool.cs.wisc.edu> engber@shorty.cs.wisc.edu (Mike Engber) writes: >Has anyone else had problems booting an SE/30 with an external SCSI >drive attached, but not powered up. This seems like the same problem >a mac+ with old ROMs has. Did Apple make the same mistake twice? >(the drive I used was a CMS 40M) >-ME Make sure you have the latest version of the CMS software. An earlier version was not quite compatible with one of the Apple system upgrades (6.0?). -- Gerald A. Edgar Department of Mathematics TS1871@OHSTVMA.bitnet The Ohio State University gae@sphere.mast.ohio-state.edu Columbus, OH 43210 ...!{att,pyramid}!osu-cis!sphere.mast.ohio-state.edu!gae
rm@praxa.com.au (Rick Mather: Praxa Sydney) (06/01/89)
In article <7598@spool.cs.wisc.edu>, engber@shorty.CS.WISC.EDU (Mike Engber) writes: > Has anyone else had problems booting an SE/30 with an external SCSI > drive attached, but not powered up. This seems like the same problem > a mac+ with old ROMs has. Did Apple make the same mistake twice? > (the drive I used was a CMS 40M) > -ME The SCSI bus won't activate if it detects a device that isn't switched on. If you want the device to be off line while you work you should switch it on, boot your Mac and then trash the drive icon from the desktop. This is not a bug but an exceptional feature to remind you to turn things on. In deference to pete@basser.oz.AU (pete%basser.oz.AU@UUNET.UU.NET) {uunet,mcvax ,ukc,nttlab}!munnari!basser.oz!pete JANET: (POST) pete%au.oz.basser@EAN-RELAY (MAIL) EAN%"pete@au.oz.basser", whose opinions are not expressed, implied or represented by myself, rm@praxa.com.AU (rm%praxa.com.AU@UUNET.UU.NET) {uunet, mcvax ,ukc,nttlab}!munnari!praxa.com!rm JANET: (POST) rm%au.com.praxa@EAN-RELAY (MAIL) EAN%"rm@au.com.praxa", a very small .sig follows: -- .
ken@cayman.COM (Ken Siegel) (06/02/89)
From article <7598@spool.cs.wisc.edu>, by engber@shorty.CS.WISC.EDU (Mike Engber): > Has anyone else had problems booting an SE/30 with an external SCSI > drive attached, but not powered up. This seems like the same problem > a mac+ with old ROMs has. Did Apple make the same mistake twice? > (the drive I used was a CMS 40M) > -ME I am running an SE/30 with a GCC FX/20 hard drive attached and turned off. I have booted it many times without any problems. Ken
roger@grenada.UUCP (Roger Corman) (06/03/89)
>.In article <7598@spool.cs.wisc.edu> engber@shorty.cs.wisc.edu (Mike Engber) writes: >.>Has anyone else had problems booting an SE/30 with an external SCSI >.>drive attached, but not powered up. This seems like the same problem >.>a mac+ with old ROMs has. Did Apple make the same mistake twice? >.>(the drive I used was a CMS 40M) >.>-ME >. >.Nah, it's not Apple's fault. All SCSI devices on a chain must be on. >.That includes your external drive, since it's connected. >. >.--- Alex I have been through this problem with an external drive on my IIx and discovered that most people are confused on this issue. The Mac IIx, IIcx and SE/30 do not require all SCSI devices to be powered on to boot. They DO require proper termination. The drive I had connected had an internal SCSI terminator which only works with power on. To allow booting from the internal drive with the external drive powered off I added an external SCSI terminator. My advice is to spend the $18 or so and add the terminator so that you have the option. Roger Corman
ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) (06/08/89)
It depends on how the drive was implemented. Some drives will bring down the whole bus if they are off, and some won't. It's not a case of Apple doing something wrong or right. The SCSI standard itself does not specify what devices are supposed to do in this case, so I suppose drive vendors just do whatever is easiest or cheapest. Tim Smith