chuq@plaid.UUCP (02/02/87)
I want to thank everyone for taking the time to send me your comments on
memory upgrades for the Mac. Looking at it, it seems obvious (to me, at
least) that there are two ways to go: Apple and Levco. I've basically
decided to go with Apple for a number of reasons:
o If I upgrade to the Mac+, I have a known quantity.
o The cost differential between Apple and the good third party groups
just isn't that big a deal.
o When you factor in resale value (third party upgrades make your machine
much harder to sell) third party machines are probably more
expensive.
o An Apple machine is upgradable to whatever Apple announces in March, if
they announce an upgrade. A third party? maybe. Depending on
the complexity of the upgrade, pretty doubtful.
If you don't mind doing things on the cheap and being self-sufficient, then
you can save some money over the Apple upgrade. But.
If you rely on your machine. If you can't afford your machine to be down
for a couple of days (to a couple of months, perhaps, as different companies
finger point at each other). If you can't or won't track down flakey RAm
chips. If your machine is an integral part of your business.
Why take chances? My machine is used every day, for hours at a time. It
makes me money. If I lose my machine, I've got troubles. It isn't a toy,
it is an investment. So the only real choice for someone in that position
is to go with known quantities.
thanks for all the feedback.
chuq
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From: decwrl!decvax!eris.berkeley.edu!ucbvax!korn
SuperMac has a 2 Meg upgrade that includes a SCSI port. I've been
considering getting it for quite some time (especially as I get nice
pricing and all...).
I believe that retail is somewhere close to $700, but I'm not sure.
From: David D'Souza <djdsouza@ATHENA.MIT.EDU>
Levco is the way to go. They certainly aren't a fly-by-night company
and they produce a good product. If you already have the new ROMS, I
think you canget a 2 meg levco board with SCSI port for 700 to 900
dollars. I don't remember the exact proce off hand.
I have had my board for about a year now and I have a Dataframe hook
up to the Levco SCSI port. I am very pleased with it.
You might want to look at getting a Mac+ motherboard upgrade. If you
take a look at Inside Mac IV, it explains some differences between the
Mac+ motherboard and the 512K motherboard. In particular, the Mac+
motherboard can support 1 meg of ROM (I think this is right). Anyway,
if Apple comes out with any new upgrades, they may only work with the
Mac+ board.
From: Byron HAN <S.SPICYNOODLES@LEAR.STANFORD.EDU>
Chuq - Some ideas on upgrades. the best bet is to get the upgrade to
the 512E (800K internal drive, and new ROM's). Supermac and Levco both
offer upgrades to 2Meg/SCSI port for about the price you pay for the
512E->mac+ upgrade.
Supermac has just a SCSI port for about $15 (goto ComputerWare to check out).
SCSI hard disks are getting REAL cheap - around $650 for a MDIdeas 20
until the end of the month and I have heard great things about the
Jasmine Drive which is even cheaper.
From: David Pinsky <hpcea!hpcid!hpciltu!dep@hplabs.HP.COM>
Check out Julian Systems in Concord CA. Sorry, but I don't have
a phone number or address handy but you should have no trouble
getting it.
They claim they are (the only?) APPLE approved value-added-resaler
or something like that.
The suggested to me that buying a Mac 512KE was a better idea than
a Mac+ for upgradeability. Dont count on the following information
too much until you talk to them, but my memory of prices and such
goes something like:
SCSI port (totally Apple compatibile) ~$100
4 Meg Upgrade ~$1200
2 Meg Upgrade ~$800
1 Meg Upgrade ~$300
They didn't recommend this upgrade because they claim
you could never add more memory to the 1M upgrade but
you could get the 2M and then go to 4M or something like
that.
They also claim that all of their work is "non-destructive" and
"clip-on" which seems probably good to me.
They were pretty nice to talk to on the phone and offer a variety
of services. (I was interested in some of their music MIDI stuff).
From: ucbvax!srm@violet.berkeley.edu (Richard Mateosian)
Check out Beck Tech in Berkeley.
From: decwrl!hplabs!sdcrdcf!psivax!dbase!drc (Dennis Cohen)
The experience my coworkers and I have had here in Southern California with
Apple vs. non-Apple upgrades make it clear that there is no _viable_ alter-
native to going with the more expensive Apple upgrade. A third party upgrade,
other than the sanctioned and expensive ones (like Levco), virtually assures
that the resale value of your machine becomes LOW. Other than Levco and
MacMemory, I don't know of any upgrade (company) which satisfies your criteria.
For the above reasons, "byte [sic] the bullet" and get the Apple upgrade (or
sell your current system and use either the Developer purchase plan or, if
you are eligible, the University plan to buy a Plus).
From: dlc%a@LANL.ARPA (Dale Carstensen)
I started with a 128K Mac and used the Dr. Dobbs upgrade to 512K, and
Macs-a-Million from Sophisticated Circuits via A.P.P.L.E. to 2M. I bought
the MacSCSI from Fastime (John Bass article in Dr Dobbs), but never got it
to work, so my SCSI is the Supermac data port (a $99 wonder I bought for less
than $90). I used a 50-pin 12-inch cable to a hole I made in the case back,
with the female connector fastened to the metal chassis so that connector
works pretty much like the others. Supermac includes a 50 pin connector that
is Centronics-style rather than DIN-style that mounts where the battery cover
normally is, so you wouldn't really have to do that, especially if you get
a drive that has separate cables not included, and get an Apple extension
cable (for HD20 SCSI) rather than the Mac+ to HD20 SCSI cable (or equivalent.)
The Macs-a-Million covers the 68000, so no clip-on devices will work (Hyper,
Micah internal drives, Prodigy and other 68020 options, I suspect all fall
into this category.)
I have had errors that were fixed by replacing memory chips about every 3
months, but all my chips are Micron Technology, and I think Macs-a-Million
with Japanese chips would be an excellent memory upgrade choice. I can send
you addresses for A.P.P.L.E., Sophisticated Circuits, or Supermac, if you
can't find them other ways, but I have them at home and I'm at work, so I'm
not including them now. One other item, the extension ROM sockets on the
Supermac dataport leave the board very tight to the underlying Mac board, and
they are not as tight as I would like them (it's easy to pop the Supermac
board out while inserting the Mac board in the chassis). Since the memory
board is a tight fit in sliding the Mac board in, I pop the boards in (with
the SCSI cable already connected and one last push on the Supermac board to
make sure it is as tight as it can get) by prying on the slides with a small
flat blade screwdriver and only slide them about the last half inch, since
the case front sticks out in the way of putting them straight in (and the
metal tabs on the back side, too.)
And channel 4 is now a little fuzzy on my TV (but I hope not on my neighbors')
so I doublt this arrangement is FCC Class B. It may be a problem in an
apartment.
From: seismo!esosun!sdcsvax!sdcc6.UCSD.EDU!ix21 (David Whiteman)
I can't recommmend anything other than the Levco upgrades just on
the basis of their reliability and service. For two years I was on
the steering committee of the San Diego Mac Users Group; not
infrequently we would get letters or comments complaining of other
3rd party upgrades, but never Levco. In a survey conducted 9 months
ago 150 of our members indicated they had Levco upgrades -- not one
stated that they ever had a problem when asked. A year my baord had
a problem with the socket on the Mac logic board that the MonsterMac
board connected to; they repaired it for me in one hour and for no
charge, despite that the board was long since out of memory. [This
problem could not happen to you if you buy their current upgrade.]
Both of their current upgrades meet the specifications mentioned in
your posting. The original MonsterMac involves cutting out the
68000 chip, and replacing it with a socket. The board plugs into
that socket. And this upgrade has an optional SCSI port available.
This upgrade requires that you have a 512K Mac to start with.
The other upgrade clips on to the present 68000 chip through a
clamplike device; in addition 2 alligator clips are used to connect
two other points on the Mac board. This upgrade runs about 30%
faster than the Mac, (the otherupgrade runs about 23% faster) and
can be attached to a 128K Mac. This upgrade can also be removed
without leaving any evidence of its presence on the Mac. This
upgrade comes with a SCSI port free.
Both upgrades are compatible with both sets of ROMS. Both have an
option for installing an indestructible RAM disk. Both have an
optional internal Rodine 20 meg or 40 meg hard drive. The clip on
version is compatible with the Radius MegaScreen. Contrary to other
postings on the board the Levco SCSI port is fully compatible with
the Apple SCSI port assuming you have the new ROMS. If you have
their hard disk, however, there is an option for a PROM which
accelerates the port. Finally if for any reason you have a program
which is not compatible with the upgrade ( I have not seen one for
over a year; the older versions of MacsBug were like this though),
by holding down the interrupt button while pressing reset, you get
your unmodified Mac back.
From: seismo!esosun!sdcsvax!telesoft!richard (Richard S. Kaufmann @favorite)
Everyone I know who has dealt with Levco has been very happy. They're in
San Diego, but I don't have their phone number. (If you call 619 555 1212,
they are in "Sorrento Valley.")
From: dbw@sdcsvax.ucsd.edu (David B. Wollner)
I have to admit that I am very much enjoying my 2 meg monster mac.
Originally I bought a 128k mac and upgraded it myself to 512k. I
had an apple dealer bring it up to a 512kE, and then brought it to
Levco for the additional memory and a scsi port. You can buy the
monster as a kit with a clip-on or you can have the solder in version.
Levco will let you provide some of the RAM making for an even more
cost effective upgrade. They are located in San Diego, which made
my decision even easier, but they have dealers all over California.
They have been in business for a couple of years, and have the
reputation for quality work. I'm still working with my Corvus
hard disk, but it was hard to turn down those 50% discount dataframes
at the MacWorld exhibition! Soon I'll get a scsi disk.
Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM
It's only a model...br@wucs2.UUCP (03/08/87)
I have a mac 512e which I have hacked up to 1MB on board. 1MB is great but
more sure would be better. Here are some questions that I need help answering:
Is it true that the power supply won't handle any more memory?
(I now have 32 256K chips on board)
Has anyone added more memory by using 1Mb chips or 256K chips
and an external power supply?
If anyone has done this or has ideas please let me know. Thanks!
Billy
--
Bill Ross Washington University ECL, St. Louis 314-889-5894
UUCP: br@wucs1.UUCP or ..!{ihnp4,seismo}!wucs1!br
ARPANET: wucs1!br@seismo.ARPA
CSNET: wucs1!br@seismo.ARPA%csnet-relayhallett@macbeth.steinmetz (Hallett) (07/13/87)
Hi everybody!
I have a query and I need a fast answer! There have been many
postings about memory upgrades from a Plus -> 2 Meg. The two
cheapest, but have heard the least complaints about are Dove Mac Snap
2 and MacMemory MaxPLUS.
For you people who have tried either, I am interested in hearing
opinions as to which is best as far as compatibility and reliability
go. I'm also interested in hearing why you chose one over the other.
Thanks a lot and I'd appreciate expediency!
Take care,
Jeffrey A. Hallett (hallett@ge-crd.arpa hallett@desdemona.uucp)
Software Technology Program
General Electric Corporate Research and Development
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many"
-- Kirk (STIII)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Disclaimer: My opinions do not represent my employer's, but it is his fault
for giving me this thing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~johnr@hpisla.HP.COM (John Repko) (07/14/87)
I recently upgraded from 512K (originally 128K) to 1M via a MacSnap board from Dove. I can recommend the Dove board, but be warned: If you have one of the "original" 128K machines the addition of memory makes it more likely that you will blow the flyback transformer on the analog board. Otherwise, go for it!
dwb@apple.UUCP (David W. Berry) (11/14/87)
In light of the rash of postings on upgrading memory in the SE and the II, I offer the following bits of wisdom in hopes that we can eliminate traffic on the matter. If you have further questions please contact me via mail or phone. Macintosh II Configuration Add Remove 1 Meg As shipped 2 Meg 4 * 256K SIMMS 4 Meg 4 * 1M SIMMS 4 * 256K SIMMS 5 Meg 4 * 1M SIMMS 8 Meg 8 * 1M SIMMS 4 * 256K SIMMS Note that all upgrades to the Mac II consist of adding either 4 or 8 SIMMS. There is no other acceptable combination. Also note that the only reason I can think of to have 4 Meg is to put 4 Meg in one Mac II and 2 Meg in another. No modification is needed beyond installing the appropriate memory. The largest parts must be installed farthest from the power supply. All chips must be 120NS parts, while 150NS parts may work they will eventually begin having problems in the most insidious ways. DON'T USE 150NS PARTS WITH A MACINTOSH II! All Apple upgrades contain 120NS parts and are therefore safe to use with a Macintosh II. Before you purchase a third-party upgrade make sure it contains 120NS parts. Macintosh SE and Plus Configuration Add Remove 1 Meg As Shipped 2 Meg 2 * 1M SIMM 4 * 256K SIMM 2.5 Meg 2 * 1M SIMM 2 * 256K SIMM 4 Meg 4 * 1M SIMM 4 * 256K SIMM Once again, you have a configuration which doesn't make much sense to have, the 2 Meg configuration means you have 2 256K SIMMs sitting unused in your pocket, might as well leave them in the machine. In order to install 1 Meg SIMMS in an SE you remove/disconnect the resistor marked 256K in the vicinity of SIMM#1. If you wish to remove all 1 Meg SIMMS from the machine you must reinstall it. The largest parts should be installed in SIMM #1 and SIMM #2. Chips may be either 120NS or 150NS. Machines may be shipped with either part. -- David W. Berry dwb@well.uucp dwb@Delphi dwb@apple.com 973-5168@408.MaBell Disclaimer: Apple doesn't even know I have an opinion and certainly wouldn't want if they did.
nazgul@apollo.UUCP (11/20/87)
In article <6733@apple.UUCP> dwb@apple.UUCP (David W. Berry) writes: > In light of the rash of postings on upgrading memory in the SE and > the II, I offer the following bits of wisdom in hopes that we can > eliminate traffic on the matter. If you have further questions please > contact me via mail or phone. > > Macintosh II > > Configuration Add Remove > 5 Meg 4 * 1M SIMMS One important thing here. If you order this it comes with 4 boards in place and 4 to install. The catch is that you have to remove the existing boards and install the extras in their place, and put the old ones in the formally empty slots. Otherwise it won't recognize the larger chips. -kee -- ### {mit-erl,yale,uw-beaver}!apollo!nazgul ### apollo!nazgul@eddie.mit.edu ### ### pro-angmar!nazgul@pro-sol.cts.com ### nazgul@apollo.com ### ### (617) 641-3722 300/1200/2400 ### ### I'm not sure which upsets me more; that people are so unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate everyone else's.
shap@sfsup.UUCP (11/21/87)
In article <3893d814.b0a1@apollo.uucp>, nazgul@apollo.UUCP writes: > In article <6733@apple.UUCP> dwb@apple.UUCP (David W. Berry) writes: > > In light of the rash of postings on upgrading memory in the SE and... The rule appears to be that the size of the memory in bank A (the bank to the rear right) must be >= the size of the memory in bank B. A given bank must be full - you can't just install 2 1M SIMMS to get 2M. SIMMS are highly static sensitive. Don't do this if you aren't properly grounded.
dmm@bu-cs.BU.EDU (Diane Meuser) (08/03/88)
I am interested in getting a memory upgrade for my Mac SE. I know that Dove computer makes a 2 MB upgrade which you can supposedly install yourself. Are there 4 MB upgrades which you can install yourself ? I would be interested in hearing from anyone who knows anything about upgrades, advantages + disadvantages of models, where they may be obtained, and how easy/advisable it is to install your own. I appreciate any answers. Diane
jon@wehi.dn.mu.oz (Jon Eaves) (06/05/89)
Hi Net,
I am looking at upgrading the memory in my Mac Plus from 1 Meg to 2 Meg
( and hopefully more later ). What I would like to know is,
a) What difference is there between 100ns and 120ns chips?
Is it noticable? (I wouldn't have thought so)
b) What is the difference between Lo and Hi-Profile SIMMS ?
and c) (This question is only really relevant to Australian/Victoria readers)
What is the best price I can get at the moment?
I have the latest Aus MacWorld in front of me, offering $440 for
1 Meg Module (HiProfile) and $490 (LoProfile) from Designwyse
in Dandenong. Is this a sensible price?
aTdHvAaNnKcSe.....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon Eaves Walter and Eliza Hall Institute for Medical Research.
"SAFE!!, obviously this is a strange new meaning of the
word safe that I was previously unaware of." Arthur Dent.
ACSnet ( jon@wehi.dn.mu.oz )
UUCP ( uunet!munnari!wehi.dn.mu.oz!jon )
Internet ( jon%wehi.dn.mu.oz@uunet.uu.net )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------twakeman@hpcea.CE.HP.COM (Teriann Wakeman) (06/09/89)
Both 100ns & 120ns SIMMs will run in your plus. There is no observable
difference between the two speeds in Macs.
Lo profile SIMMs are usually surface mount. This seems to be desirable in the
SE because it leaves more space for an addin card. It would only be of
concern to you if you plan to pop in an accelerator board, large screen
adaptor or some such in the future.
Hi profile SIMMs are usually duel inline packages (DIP). These sit higher
on the SIMM board & rub the frame slightly when you slide the digital
board back into place. The potential problem lies with the pins that stick
through the board and are soldered on the lower side. Due to spacial
reasons, the chips are situated as close a possible to the board connector.
The pins on the lower row may interfere with the lower lip of the SIMM
socket. This may make it difficult to impossible to properly seat the SIMM
into its socket. Those arms on the socket are very easy to brake if you try
to force them over a SIMM that is sitting too high on the socket.
IF the hi profile SIMM is properly made there should be no problem. If
the first row of RAM DIP pins stick down below the board, you have trouble.
Low profile SIMMs are normally more expensive then hi profile SIMMs. My
advice, If you are getting the SIMMs from a local source or they are installing
them for you, go ahead & get the cheaper hi profile SIMMs, but if you are
mail ordering them, get the lo profile {You are considerably less likely to
have problems installing lo profile SIMMS then the hi profile beasties}
BE CAREFUL WITH THE ARMS ON THE SIMM SOCKET!!
Looking at the prices youu quoted, If Australian $$$ is <= about half N
US $$$ then you might be better off purchasing the chips in the US.
Current US cheapie prices are about US$145-160 for hi profile & approx
US$180+ for lo profile SIMMs.
Hope this helps,
TeriAnn