granteri@pnet51.cts.com (Grant Erickson) (06/12/89)
This kind of activity is quite annoying. It is rather apparent the Mac and its interface is popular, X Windows on UNIX, Windows/386 for IBMs, Amiga Emulators, Atari Magic Sac, etc. And now this glut of Macintosh Clone makers. It is no wonder that this is happening. I can't believe that (if this is the case), that some Apple employee would do this kind of thing. Doesn't show a lot of company pride and the desire to be #1 now does it? So why did they come to work there in the first place? Corporate spies maybe? I doubt it, since it would take awhile to get access to that stuff and be trusted with it. I hope that whoever did this childish stunt is apprehended and prosecuted to the FULL extent of the law, and that whatever damage has been done can be repaired. Has John Sculley or Jean Louise Gassee commented on this at all? .______________________________________________________________________________. | UUCP: {amdahl!bungia, uuner!rosevax, chinet, killer}!orbit!pnet51!granteri | | ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!granteri@nosc.mil | | INET: granteri@pnet51.cts.com | |------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | This Mac Plus isn't mine, I'm just borrowing it, the IIX is in the shop. | !______________________________________________________________________________!
al@mtcs.UUCP (Al Fontes) (06/13/89)
From article <843@orbit.UUCP>, by granteri@pnet51.cts.com (Grant Erickson):
> ... And now this glut of Macintosh Clone makers.
Where can I get a Macintosh clone?shap@polya.Stanford.EDU (Jonathan S. Shapiro) (06/13/89)
In article <843@orbit.UUCP> granteri@pnet51.cts.com (Grant Erickson) writes: >This kind of activity is quite annoying. It is rather apparent the Mac and >its interface is popular, X Windows on UNIX, Windows/386 for IBMs, Amiga >Emulators, Atari Magic Sac, etc. And now this glut of Macintosh Clone makers. >It is no wonder that this is happening. Just to set the record straight, X Windows was completely independent of MacOs. It derived from the Andrew Window System and a couple of others. It had nothing whatsoever to do with MacOs. Windowing systems have been around for a long time. Don't assume that they are all MacOs derived. Jon
peirce@claris.com (Michael Peirce) (06/13/89)
In article <9968@polya.Stanford.EDU> shap@polya.Stanford.EDU (Jonathan S. Shapiro) writes: >In article <843@orbit.UUCP> granteri@pnet51.cts.com (Grant Erickson) writes: >>This kind of activity is quite annoying. It is rather apparent the Mac and >>its interface is popular, X Windows on UNIX, Windows/386 for IBMs, Amiga >>Emulators, Atari Magic Sac, etc. And now this glut of Macintosh Clone makers. >>It is no wonder that this is happening. > >Just to set the record straight, X Windows was completely independent >of MacOs. It derived from the Andrew Window System and a couple of >others. It had nothing whatsoever to do with MacOs. > >Windowing systems have been around for a long time. Don't assume that >they are all MacOs derived. > >Jon That may be true of straight X, but OSF/Motif sure *seems* to take a few ideas from the Mac user interface! Claris Corp. | Michael R. Peirce -------------+-------------------------------------- | 5201 Patrick Henry Drive MS-C4 | Box 58168 | Santa Clara, CA 95051-8168 | (408) 987-7319 | AppleLink: peirce1 | Internet: peirce@claris.com | uucp: {ames,decwrl,apple,sun}!claris!peirce
sbb@esquire.UUCP (Stephen B. Baumgarten) (06/13/89)
In article <10273@claris.com> peirce@claris.com (Michael Peirce) writes: >> >>Windowing systems have been around for a long time. Don't assume that >>they are all MacOs derived. >> >>Jon > >That may be true of straight X, but OSF/Motif sure *seems* to take a >few ideas from the Mac user interface! True, straight X lets the developer slap on just about any kind of interface he wishes (although some of the toolkits, especially Andrew, help standardize things a bit), and in general this is one of the worst things about X -- everyone does it his own way and almost without exception these "homegrown" interfaces are awful. [ Aside: I remember seeing a demo of Open Look when Sun first announced it, and while the Sun rep. was raving about the "push pins" in dialog boxes (so they stay on the screen), I marveled at the complete lack of a standard-file open/save box. The guy was actually typing file and directory names into this little TextEdit window! What an advance in the state of the art... Maybe this has changed since those early days, but even if it has, boy are those menus ugly...] But has anyone seen the X version of FrameMaker running on a Sun or Apollo? Except for the fact that the menu bar is attached to the main window (and that it doesn't operate nearly as well as the Mac's), the program looks almost *exactly* like a Macintosh application. Sure makes it easy for me to use, but I wonder what Apple (specifically, Apple's attorneys) think about it. -- Steve Baumgarten | "New York... when civilization falls apart, Davis Polk & Wardwell | remember, we were way ahead of you." cmcl2!esquire!sbb | esquire!sbb@cmcl2.nyu.edu | - David Letterman
gja@etive.ed.ac.uk (A Cunningham) (06/13/89)
In article <9968@polya.Stanford.EDU> shap@polya.Stanford.EDU (Jonathan S. Shapiro) writes: >In article <843@orbit.UUCP> granteri@pnet51.cts.com (Grant Erickson) writes: > >Just to set the record straight, X Windows was completely independent >of MacOs. It derived from the Andrew Window System and a couple of >others. It had nothing whatsoever to do with MacOs. I think you are mistaken about X. It was developed independently as part of project Athena at MIT. I think it was CMU who developed Andrew. I heard a talk recently from J.H.Saltzer (Technical Director, Project Athena 1984-1988) who described his visit to CMU and how they sent a tape of X to CMU in exchange for a tape of Andrew sources. However IBM stopped CMU from sending MIT a tape because they had rights to all Andrew software. It seems MIT were smart enough to demand that they keep the rights to all the work from Athena. The upshot is that there are a lot more X users than Andrew users :-) Tony "Sex without love is an empty experience." "But as empty experiences go it's one of the best."
bmug@garnet.berkeley.edu (BMUG) (06/14/89)
In article <1241@esquire.UUCP> sbb@esquire.UUCP (Stephen B. Baumgarten) writes: (X/Open Look discussion omitted) > >But has anyone seen the X version of FrameMaker running on a Sun or >Apollo? Except for the fact that the menu bar is attached to the main >window (and that it doesn't operate nearly as well as the Mac's), the >program looks almost *exactly* like a Macintosh application. > >Sure makes it easy for me to use, but I wonder what Apple >(specifically, Apple's attorneys) think about it. > It was announced a ways back that Frame Technology intends to release a Macintosh version of their product (perhaps by the end of this year). Given what the product can do, I'd guess that Apple is delighted, particularly since the interface (much of which would look quite familiar to a Mac veteran), being a lot more standard than, say, Interleaf's, should ensure good penetration in the heavy-duty DTP market. The companies which probably *won't* be delighted are Aldus, Quark, et al. Gee, since Apple will be directly supporting X, maybe Frame won't even have to alter the interface at all :-). John Heckendorn /\ BMUG ARPA: bmug@garnet.berkeley.EDU A__A 1442A Walnut St., #62 BITNET: bmug@ucbgarne |()| Berkeley, CA 94709 Phone: (415) 549-2684 | |
siegel@endor.harvard.edu (Rich Siegel) (06/14/89)
In article <2339@etive.ed.ac.uk> gja@etive.ed.ac.uk (A Cunningham) writes: >of X to CMU in exchange for a tape of Andrew sources. However IBM stopped >CMU from sending MIT a tape because they had rights to all Andrew software. When I was at CMU, the joke was that Carnegie-Mellon University was a wholly-owned subsidiary of IBM. :-) I was an early user of Andrew, and I've never used X; I don't think that Andrew has any relationship to any earthly windowing system. The window manager was pretty slow, and there was very little UI consistency. The finest part of the system was "Messages", which was the program for reading newsgroups, and reading and sending mail. The finest piece of workstation software I've EVER seen. if only there were something like it so that I could read comp.sys.mac from my Mac... I think that nsb and the AMS group should get a medal for their work. --Rich ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rich Siegel Staff Software Developer Symantec Corporation, Language Products Group Internet: siegel@endor.harvard.edu UUCP: ..harvard!endor!siegel I classify myself as a real developer because my desk is hip-deep in assembly-language listings and I spend more than 50% of my time in TMON. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~