cfj@zeus.hf.intel.com (cfj) (05/24/89)
I'm thinking about purchasing either a Mac + or Mac SE. Could someone
out tell me if there really is any advantage to buying an SE or the Plus
if :
1. You don't care about the SE's internal expansion slot.
2. You don't care about having an external hard disk.
There is such a large difference in price between a SE and a Plus, it seems
that there must be more advantages than I'm not aware of.
Thanks,
Charles Johnson
Intel Corp.
Hillsboro, OR
cfj@cfj.hf.intel.com
...uunet!littlei!sdp!cfjg556871349ea@deneb.ucdavis.edu (0040;0000056927;0;745;352;) (05/26/89)
In article <391@zeus.hf.intel.com> cfj@zeus.hf.intel.com (cfj) writes: > >I'm thinking about purchasing either a Mac + or Mac SE. Could someone >out tell me if there really is any advantage to buying an SE or the Plus >if : > > 1. You don't care about the SE's internal expansion slot. > 2. You don't care about having an external hard disk. > >There is such a large difference in price between a SE and a Plus, it seems >that there must be more advantages than I'm not aware of. > >Thanks, > >Charles Johnson >Intel Corp. >Hillsboro, OR >cfj@cfj.hf.intel.com >...uunet!littlei!sdp!cfj Given conditions 1 and 2, I personally have recommended the Mac Plus because it DOES NOT come with a fan which makes it practically silent You do have to decide which keyboard you prefer. My favorite is the old 512 keyboard. Of course this is if I intend to use the Mac at home. At work, I have set up the office with SEs because we want the expansion slot for accelerators and big screens. But, the main point I want to make because I just found out about it yesterday is that the SE 2/40 is not 100% compatible with programs written for other Macs. I called up PCAI about a program of theirs that wasn't working, and they replied that it would not work on a SE 2/40...BUT IT WORKS ON EVERYTHING ELSE WE HAVE! Does anyone know what hardware difference there is? Colin Ong Dept. LAWR UC Davis <Slip in the usual disclaimer here>
oster@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu (David Phillip Oster) (05/26/89)
Last month, I talked a relative into getting an SE. This month, I talked a neighbor into getting a MacPlus. Here are the pros and cons as I see them: My relative is scared of computers. She liked the giant keyboard option for the SE because it gave her a good feeling to get a keyboard as big sa one on an IBM Pc. She also liked the SE with a built-in hard disk. The new SEs have a very quiet fan, but the hard disk drive from apple is pretty noisy. (Note: if you select "Shutdown" in the finder, the hard disk powers down even though the machine is still running. Does anyone have an INIT to power-down the hard disk if it has been idle for 30 seconds, and to power it back up again before the next file access?) My neighbor is a professional programmer. She is perfectly capable of hooking up a SCSI drive on a cable. She doesn't mind the 'plus's small right shift key, and likes the silence, and the price.
kcr%rushforth@Sun.COM (Kevin Rushforth) (05/26/89)
In article <29326@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> oster@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu.UUCP (David Phillip Oster) writes: >(Note: if you select "Shutdown" in the finder, the hard disk powers >down even though the machine is still running. Does anyone have an INIT to >power-down the hard disk if it has been idle for 30 seconds, and to power >it back up again before the next file access?) I should hope not! Repeatedly starting and stopping a hard disk drive is the one thing most likely to cause premature death (er, next to dropping it on the floor). I have a Plus with an external hard drive, and based on what I found out in this group, I have decided to power it on in the morning and leave it on all day, whether or not the MAC is on. I only shut it down at night. -- Kevin C. Rushforth | "If winning is not important, Sun Microsystems | then commander, why keep score?" | - Lt. Worf ARPA: kcr@sun.com | UUCP: <most-backbone-sites>!sun!kcr |
paisley@circus.cme.nbs.gov (Scott Paisley) (05/26/89)
In article <106857@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> kcr%rushforth@Sun.COM (Kevin Rushforth) writes: In article <29326@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> oster@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu.UUCP (David Phillip Oster) writes: >>(Note: if you select "Shutdown" in the finder, the hard disk powers >>down even though the machine is still running. Does anyone have an INIT to >>power-down the hard disk if it has been idle for 30 seconds, and to power >>it back up again before the next file access?) >I should hope not! Repeatedly starting and stopping a hard disk drive >is the one thing most likely to cause premature death (er, next to Yes I agree. I leave my hard drive on all day and shut it off only at night since I don't always use my mac everyday. (hard to believe eh?) About MacPlus vs MacSE: I would get a MacPlus over the SE if I needed on. The price difference would allow you to get a substantial sized harddisk for the plus. The only advantage that I see to getting an SE is that Apple will probably support the SE longer than the Plus. However there are so many MacPluses out there, even lack of support will not be a problem for a long time. (I think...) Yet another opinion from... -- "...and this thing you call language - you depend on it for so much, yet none of you are its master." -Carlos the Medusan Scott Paisley paisley@cme.nbs.gov ..!uunet!cme-durer!paisley
d88-jwa@nada.kth.se (Jon W{tte) (05/27/89)
There are differences... The SE is said to be 15 % faster than the plus,
and the plus is quieter. On the other hand, the SE is completely flat on
top, which means that you can have manuals and coffe-cups (tea mugs, coke
bottles, CD's, whatever) on it without getting bombs due to over-heating.
--
h+@nada.kth.se <>,, Picture this recording studio somewhere far far away
Jon W{tte (:))))=- Brrrrreeeee, you bugger! (Piano in)
Oh NO! A bug! <>'' Say kids, what time is it ? It's time for a house.
Dizco me to XtaC! OOOOH LAAAH LAAAAA ! (c) HitHouse -- No More --cleeland@rex.cs.tulane.edu (Chris Cleeland) (05/27/89)
In article <391@zeus.hf.intel.com> cfj@zeus.hf.intel.com (cfj) writes: > > 1. You don't care about the SE's internal expansion slot. > 2. You don't care about having an external hard disk. > >There is such a large difference in price between a SE and a Plus, it seems >that there must be more advantages than I'm not aware of. If you also don't care about there being a lot of memory, I have a 512KE (that includes the same ROM's as the Mac Plus) that can be yours for the right price. -- Thanks Chris Cleeland, Tulane University Disclaimer: I haven't said anything worth not claiming!!!
sklein@cdp.UUCP (05/27/89)
The Keyboard on the Mac Plus sucks. The speed of the SCSI port is faster, and the SE ROMs have nice digitized pictures of the development team! That expansion slot may be more important than you think. What if you want a faster Mac, or a 68030 for better performance with system 7.0? Oh, and the SE can be upgraded to an SEx (aka SE/30), while the Mac Plus is at the end of the road. -shabtai
Michael.Burton@f200.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Burton) (05/27/89)
> I'm thinking about purchasing either a Mac + or Mac SE. Could someone > out tell me if there really is any advantage to buying an SE or the Plus > if : > > 1. You don't care about the SE's internal expansion slot. > 2. You don't care about having an external hard disk. > > There is such a large difference in price between a SE and a Plus, it >seems that there must be more advantages than I'm not aware of. I've been using a Mac Plus for a year, and so far I've encountered scarcely anything that an SE can do that a Plus can't. You're aware that the Plus doesn't have the SE's expansion slot. You also say that you "don't care about having an external hard disk." It's much more difficult to find a good internal hard drive for the Plus than for the SE. I can promise you: you WILL want a hard drive for your Mac--it's becoming increasingly difficult to run the latest software without a hard drive. The SE is a little bit faster than the Plus on some operations. But I've never been able to see any reason to spend almost a thousand dollars more for an SE. -- Michael Burton via cmhGate - Net 226 fido<=>uucp gateway Col, OH UUCP: ...!osu-cis!n8emr!cmhgate!200!Michael.Burton
al1g+@andrew.cmu.edu (Anthony Edward Lalli) (05/28/89)
I own a Mac SE and my parents have a Mac Plus. In terms of speed, there is no noticable difference, although the SE is supposed to be a bit faster. The keyboard of the SE is much nicer, especially the extended keyboard if you intend to run QuicKeys or some other macro package. The function keys become quite useful here. Also, having two internal disk drives is nice (for those of us too broke to get a hard disk) especially if you plan to move your Mac a lot, as I do between school and home. I personally recommend the SE; however, if the Plus keyboard doesn't bother you and if you don't mind an external disk drive, then go ahead and get a Plus. Tony Lalli Carnegie Mellon University
gillies@p.cs.uiuc.edu (05/30/89)
1. The Plus *mouse* sucks. Borrow a Plus, and an SE/II for a few hours, and you'll see what I mean. The ADB mouse on the SE/II has a nicer feel. 2. The SE SCSI port runs at twice the transfer rate of the Plus. This means disk transfers are faster on an SE. Hence, programs load & files are stored *much faster*. 3. Internal SE hard disks are ~$100 cheaper than external Mac Plus hard disks. You don't have to pay for a power supply, case, and SCSI cable. By the way, DON'T buy an Apple disk (it's a ripoff). 4. The SE is superior for left-handers, because of the clever modularity of the ADB keyboards (mouse attaches to either side of the keyboard). 5. The Plus is likely to be discontinued in the next year, when Apple comes out with a cheaper Mac. It is hard to own an orphan machine. 6. It is a safe guess that in the long run, SE's will support system 7.0's virtual memory through 68030 upgrades. This is much less likely for a Mac Plus, since Mac Plus expansion is so klugey.
fozzard@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Richard Fozzard) (05/31/89)
In article <141200039@cdp> sklein@cdp.UUCP writes: > >and the SE ROMs have nice digitized pictures of the development team! > Does anyone know how to view these pictures? I presume there is an address where I can just type "G <address>" to do this. And are these also available on SE/30s and IIs? thanks ======================================================================== Richard Fozzard University of Colorado "Serendipity empowers" fozzard@boulder.colorado.edu
nick@lfcs.ed.ac.uk (Nick Rothwell) (05/31/89)
In article <126900022@p.cs.uiuc.edu>, gillies@p.cs writes: >1. The Plus *mouse* sucks. Borrow a Plus, and an SE/II for a few hours, >and you'll see what I mean. The ADB mouse on the SE/II has a nicer feel. I use both Plusses and SE's. I have no strong preference for the Plus Mouse/KB combo or the SE, really, although they're very different. In my time, I've typed on almost everything... I think I slightly prefer the SE mouse, because it's thinner, but I prefer the Plus's keyboard, because it's less spongy. >4. The SE is superior for left-handers, because of the clever >modularity of the ADB keyboards (mouse attaches to either side of the >keyboard). But, on a Plus, the mouse plugs into the back of the machine, so if you want to change sides, you just flip the cable over, without unplugging anything. Why is the SE better? (I'm a left-hander, by the way, but I have the mouse somewhere random each time.) >5. The Plus is likely to be discontinued in the next year, when Apple >comes out with a cheaper Mac. It is hard to own an orphan machine. Perhaps, but there are zillions of Plusses out in the world. In this day and age, *anything* is going to get discontinued pretty quickly, so I'd rather have something that's common. >6. It is a safe guess that in the long run, SE's will support system >7.0's virtual memory through 68030 upgrades. This is much less likely >for a Mac Plus, since Mac Plus expansion is so klugey. True. I went for the Plus anyway, rather than waiting and agonising. By the time the Plus is obselete, things will have moved on so much that it's worth buying again from scratch... Nick. -- Nick Rothwell, Laboratory for Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh. nick@lfcs.ed.ac.uk <Atlantic Ocean>!mcvax!ukc!lfcs!nick ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ Fais que ton reve soit plus long que la nuit.
al1g+@andrew.cmu.edu (Anthony Edward Lalli) (06/05/89)
I must agree that if you are left-handed, the SE's Apple-bus makes adaptation quite a bit simpler. Just the same, you still have the option to plug both the keyboard and mouse into the back of the SE, so the SE can go either way. I am left handed and plugging the mouse into the left side of the keyboard allows for much more freedom with the mouse. Just the same, right handed people can have the same benefits by plugging the mouse into the right side of the keyboard. The SE's mouse also has a much more positive response than the Plus, but BEWARE OF THE NEW MOUSE Apple came out with for the SE. Word has it they destroyed it, as mentioned in previous postings. Tony Lalli Carnegie Mellon University
rang@cpsin3.cps.msu.edu (Anton Rang) (06/05/89)
In article <oYWUOny00WB-08f4c6@andrew.cmu.edu> al1g+@andrew.cmu.edu (Anthony Edward Lalli) writes: [ ... ] BEWARE OF THE NEW MOUSE Apple came out with for the SE. Word has it they destroyed it, as mentioned in previous postings. I think this is either a matter of opinion, or else another case of some "dud" mice. I prefer my SE mouse (the new kind, with the black ball) to the older ones--it feels more responsive to me.... +---------------------------+------------------------+ | Anton Rang (grad student) | "VMS Forever!" | | Michigan State University | rang@cpswh.cps.msu.edu | +---------------------------+------------------------+
cleeland@rex.cs.tulane.edu (Chris Cleeland) (06/06/89)
In article <oYWUOny00WB-08f4c6@andrew.cmu.edu> al1g+@andrew.cmu.edu (Anthony Edward Lalli) writes: >I must agree that if you are left-handed, the SE's Apple-bus makes adaptation >quite a bit simpler. Just the same, you still have the option to plug both >the keyboard and mouse into the back of the SE, so the SE can go either way. >I am left handed and plugging the mouse into the left side of the keyboard >allows for much more freedom with the mouse. Just the same, right handed >people can have the same benefits by plugging the mouse into the right side >of the keyboard. > One thing that I wish Apple hadn't done with the newer line of Mac's was moving all connectors for the keyboard/ADB to the back. I own a 512KE, and really enjoy being able to have the keyboard connector on the front of the Mac. I've used many II's and SE's, and just don't like the idea of having to S T R E T C H the very short keyboard cord provided with the newer Mac's around the back of the II's. Wouldn't it be much easier to just put an ADB connector on the front of the computer? My vote goes for moving at least one connector back to the front of the new Mac's. Any opinions? -- Thanks Chris Cleeland, Tulane University Disclaimer: I haven't said anything worth not claiming!!!
twakeman@hpcea.CE.HP.COM (Teriann Wakeman) (06/06/89)
I keep reading about how much better the SE is for lefties because you can
plug the mouse in on either side. What people seem to be forgetting is that
on the plus & earlier models, the mouse plugs into the back & has a long cord.
The pluses mouse can be placed on either side of the plus simply by draping
the cord to either side of the Mac. The pre-plus keyboard went even farther &
allowed you to put the numaric keypad on either side of the alpha keyboard.
While on the subject of mice, I for one prefer the Plus & earlier mouse to
the SE & later design. It seems to fit my hand better & I do not grip it as
tight. Course now, could be that I like it because I have been using that
style mouse now for 5 years & the other style just when I borrow a newer Mac.
This will probably blow what image I have, but, anyone know of a joy stick
that will fit pre SE Macs?
TeriAnn
{The mailer to my UNIX beastie is broken}peterbak@microsoft.UUCP (Peter Bako) (06/08/89)
In article <9091@boulder.Colorado.EDU> fozzard@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Richard Fozzard) writes: >In article <141200039@cdp> sklein@cdp.UUCP writes: >> >>and the SE ROMs have nice digitized pictures of the development team! >> > >Does anyone know how to view these pictures? I presume there is an >address where I can just type "G <address>" to do this. And are these >also available on SE/30s and IIs? > As far as I know the development team pictures only appear in SE's, but I could be wrong. (I've tried it on my Mac II, and its not there.. ) In any case on an SE just enter any debugger, and jump to 41D89A. the pictures will start cycling thru until the end. If you have seen enough, you have to reboot. enjoy..... Peter -- (*)-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-\/-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+(*) ( UUCP: peterbak@microsoft || Is this all that I am? Is there ) ( CompuServe: 71170,1426 || nothing more? - V'ger ) (*)-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-/\-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+(*)
captkidd@athena.mit.edu (Ivan Cavero Belaunde) (06/08/89)
In article <391@zeus.hf.intel.com> cfj@zeus.hf.intel.com (cfj) writes: > >I'm thinking about purchasing either a Mac + or Mac SE. Could someone >out tell me if there really is any advantage to buying an SE or the Plus >if : > 1. You don't care about the SE's internal expansion slot. > 2. You don't care about having an external hard disk. Well, I'm not positive about this, but I believe that there is no upgrade path (and there will be none) from the plus to the '030 line (ie SEx), short of selling your machine and buying the new one. There is a board/chassis swap available to go from SE to SEx, and since Apple seems to be moving in that direction within 2 yrs (ie high performance CPU w/MMU) that could be a factor. >Charles Johnson -Ivan Cavero Belaunde
dwells@Apple.COM (Dave Wells) (06/10/89)
In article <11898@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> captkidd@athena.mit.edu (Ivan Cavero Belaunde) writes: >In article <391@zeus.hf.intel.com> cfj@zeus.hf.intel.com (cfj) writes: >>I'm thinking about purchasing either a Mac + or Mac SE. Could someone >>out tell me if there really is any advantage to buying an SE or the Plus >>if : >> 1. You don't care about the SE's internal expansion slot. >> 2. You don't care about having an external hard disk. >Well, I'm not positive about this, but I believe that there is no upgrade path >(and there will be none) from the plus to the '030 line (ie SEx), short of No upgrade path from us, but there is a company in Oregon that sells a 020/030 accelerator for the 512, Plus or SE. The same board is supposed to work in all models, with just a switch of adapters. -Dave -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Dave Wells, Apple Computer, Inc. MS: 37-O (408) 974-5515 Mail: dwells@apple.com or AppleLink d.wells or GEnie D.WELLS These opinions may be nothing more than the ramblings of a fatigued tinkerer -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- There's one big difference between genius and stupidity. Genius has limits. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
kehr@felix.UUCP (Shirley Kehr) (06/14/89)
In article <32334@apple.Apple.COM> dwells@Apple.COM (Dave Wells) writes:
<No upgrade path from us, but there is a company in Oregon that sells a 020/030
<accelerator for the 512, Plus or SE. The same board is supposed to work in all
<models, with just a switch of adapters.
The company is Total Systems
99 West 10th Ave., Suite #333
Eugene, OR 97401
(800) 874-2288
They sent me a nice packet describing their boards. Some even come bundled
with Virtual. I don't think I requested this package, and if I hadn't
already bought an SE/30 I would buy their board to update my 512 again.
You can even upgrade a 128 Mac.
Shirley Kehr