stuart@ihlpa.ATT.COM (S. D. Ericson) (06/09/89)
In article <3734@tank.uchicago.edu>, ra_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu writes: > In article <11894@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU>, samalone@athena.mit.edu (Stuart A. Malone) writes... > > >This has gotten out of hand. [...] > You're right: this is getting ridiculous. [...] I agree. Just what we need, software guerrilla war tactics. Good grief! Aren't there better things these people can do with their lives than pursue ILLEGAL activities for freeing up software? C'mon, guys, use your pent-up energies for something worthwhile, like helping the poor and disadvantaged! SOFTWARE is NOT this important. Sometimes I think we americans have got our concepts of rights all messed up. <<Flame off>> Sorry, guys, I just get SOO mad at these STUPID actvities that I could just, uhm, <<FLAME OFF, OK?>> Back to my cage... Stuart -- Stuart Ericson AT&T Bell Laboratories | Note: area code 312 USEnet: att!ihlpa!stuart IH 1C215 | becomes 708 on ARPA: stuart@ihlpa.att.com 2000 N. Naperville Road | 11/1 Thanks to Voice: (312) 979-4491 Naperville, Il 60566-7033 | Illinois Bell :-(
fischer@arisia.Xerox.COM (Ronald A. Fischer) (06/11/89)
Unfortunately the worst of the side effects will likely be on the work environment at Apple. You can bet that right now security all over Apple Computer Corp. has become much tighter, likely restricting dialup access, file service access and checking bags on the way out. Anyone from Apple like to comment? IMHO this will probably result in much more restricted access to source code between groups inside the company, a kind of balkanization if you will. This happens in large companies as part of growth, but usually due to internal power stuggles between managers. Things are likely to be quite messy and unpleasant as this gets worked out from the top down. I've heard that Apple is company full of visionaries; everyone thinks they have a way to change the world for the better. I guess its not suprising that those visions would be diverse enough to encompass behavior we usually associate with "crusading journalists" uncovering the dark and secret deeds of individuals in our government. Pity the avergage hacker at Apple these days, targeted by FSF for being too successful, getting dirty looks from the security folk on the way in and out. Their loss of innocence has reached new heights. Apple, as a corporate person, is now a schiziod adult. (ron)
mjohnson@Apple.COM (Mark B. Johnson) (06/11/89)
In article <1072@arisia.Xerox.COM> fischer@arisia.Xerox.COM (Ronald A. Fischer) writes: > >I've heard that Apple is company full of visionaries; everyone thinks >they have a way to change the world for the better. I guess its not >suprising that those visions would be diverse enough to encompass >behavior we usually associate with "crusading journalists" uncovering >the dark and secret deeds of individuals in our government. > Granted the Read Me file said something like "we at Apple," but anyone could have written it, Apple employee or not. Let's not jump the gun until it's pointed at the guilty party... Mark B. Johnson AppleLink: mjohnson Developer Technical Support domain: mjohnson@Apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. UUCP: {amdahl,decwrl,sun,unisoft}!apple!mjohnson "You gave your life to become the person you are right now. Was it worth it?" - Richard Bach, _One_
Chris.Parson@f54.n382.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Chris Parson) (06/12/89)
I don't understand the furor! MacNosy ( by Jasik Designs ) has been able to disassemble the Mac ROMs for years! So the code has been availible for years. Big deal. -- Chris Parson via cmhGate - Net 226 fido<=>uucp gateway Col, OH UUCP: ...!osu-cis!n8emr!cmhgate!382!54!Chris.Parson
ra_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu (06/14/89)
In article <14758.2494DD71@cmhgate.FIDONET.ORG>, Chris.Parson@f54.n382.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Chris Parson) writes... > > I don't understand the furor! MacNosy ( by Jasik Designs ) has >been able to disassemble the Mac ROMs for years! So the code has >been availible for years. Big deal. It's a big deal because disassembly <> source code. Source code is _much_ more informative. It's like having a copy of a book in English and in a foreign language (which you don't speak). The same information is there, but it's much easier to understand in one version than the other. Again, the people who stole this are weenies. Robert ------ ra_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu ------ generic disclaimer: all my opinions are mine
nelson@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Russ Nelson) (06/16/89)
In article <3819@tank.uchicago.edu> ra_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu writes: In article <14758.2494DD71@cmhgate.FIDONET.ORG>, Chris.Parson@f54.n382.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Chris Parson) writes... > I don't understand the furor! MacNosy ( by Jasik Designs ) has >been able to disassemble the Mac ROMs for years! So the code has >been availible for years. Big deal. It's a big deal because disassembly <> source code. Source code is _much_ more informative. It's like having a copy of a book in English and in a foreign language (which you don't speak). The same information is there, but it's much easier to understand in one version than the other. I've disassembled quite a lot of software, on the order of 100K of executable code. I estimate that the amount of work needed to produce a compilable source of an executable is approximately equal to the amount of work required to write it in the first place. If I were producing a Macintosh clone, I would have two sets of people working on it, one disassembling the existing code, and another rewriting it from scratch. The two teams would communicate only by a third party, and a lab notebook would be kept of all communications. Further, I wouldn't bother to try to save space as the original Mac team did. Better to reduce your profit with an extra ROM and get the clone out the door. -- --russ (nelson@clutx [.bitnet | .clarkson.edu]) A person who seeks peace using weapons will never find it. [Thanks, Clayton.]