ksuzuki@dip.eecs.umich.edu (Katsu Suzuki) (06/21/89)
I heard from my friend that it is possible to run IBM PC program on Mac II with
some kind of special hardware. My question is
1. What kind of hardware and software do I need to do this?
2. What kind of major software for IBM PC really run on Mac II?
Thnaks in advance.
Katsu Suzuki
University of Michigan, Ann Arborsteve@arc.UUCP (Steve Savitzky) (06/21/89)
In article <137@zip.eecs.umich.edu> ksuzuki@dip.eecs.umich.edu (Katsu Suzuki) writes: >I heard from my friend that it is possible to run IBM PC program on Mac II with >some kind of special hardware. My question is > >1. What kind of hardware and software do I need to do this? I know of two ways of running PC software on a Mac: there is at least one plug-in board that emulates an AT, and there is a pure software emulator. In both cases you need to get a 5.25inch disk drive; in the case of the software you will need an interface board for it (I think the hardware emulator has a disk interface on the board). The hardware emulator costs about $1K; the software one about $500. For the same $500 you can buy a PC clone, complete with monitor, keyboard, and disk drives. For another $500 or so you can put both systems on the TOPS network so they can share files, or you can ship files through the serial ports with Kermit or any other file-transfer program. The result will be faster than the software emulator, cheaper than the plug-in hardware, and guaranteed PC-compatible for all software. In addition it doesn't tie up your Mac. A possibly even better idea is to get a Toshiba T1000 laptop -- 6.4 lbs, PC compatible, about $650. The disadvantage is that not all PC software is available on 3.5inch disks; the advantage is that it's portable. Another advantage is that if you have a IIx rather than a II it can read and write the Toshiba's disks. -- Steve Savitzky | apple.com!arc!steve ADVANsoft Research Corp. | (408)727-3357 4301 Great America Parkway | #include<disclaimer.h> Santa Clara, CA 95054 | May the Source be with you!
mjohnson@Apple.COM (Mark B. Johnson) (06/21/89)
In article <391@arc.UUCP> steve@arc.UUCP (Steve Savitzky) writes: > >I know of two ways of running PC software on a Mac: there is at least >one plug-in board that emulates an AT, and there is a pure software >emulator. In both cases you need to get a 5.25inch disk drive; in the >case of the software you will need an interface board for it (I think >the hardware emulator has a disk interface on the board). > A newer version of SoftPC supports the internal FDHD drive in the Macintosh IIx and newer machines, so you can use 3.5" disks instead of spending the money on the additional 5.25" drive and card. Mark B. Johnson AppleLink: mjohnson Developer Technical Support domain: mjohnson@Apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. UUCP: {amdahl,decwrl,sun,unisoft}!apple!mjohnson "You gave your life to become the person you are right now. Was it worth it?" - Richard Bach, _One_
jackd@copper.MDP.TEK.COM (Jack Decker) (06/21/89)
In article <137@zip.eecs.umich.edu> ksuzuki@dip.eecs.umich.edu (Katsu Suzuki) writes: >I heard from my friend that it is possible to run IBM PC program on Mac II with >some kind of special hardware. My question is > >1. What kind of hardware and software do I need to do this? > >2. What kind of major software for IBM PC really run on Mac II? I have been VERY impressed with Insignia's SoftPC product. It is reasonably priced ($250 from Mac Connection) and has been compatible with every PC program I have tried to run. It is strictly software so you don't have to do any hardware installation. You need an 020 or 030 to run it and 2mbs or more. The benchmarks I have run indicate that it is performing at 50 to 60% of a PC XT's speed. If you need more horsepower than this, go with Orange Micro's coprocessor based emulator ($600+). jack decker tektronix--Beaverton OR
jlh@stech.UUCP (Jan Harrington) (06/21/89)
in article <137@zip.eecs.umich.edu>, ksuzuki@dip.eecs.umich.edu (Katsu Suzuki) says: > > I heard from my friend that it is possible to run IBM PC program on Mac II with > some kind of special hardware. My question is > > 1. What kind of hardware and software do I need to do this? > There are two types of solutions. One is to purchase a coprocessor board like the Mac286 from AST (retail around $1500, although the street price is less). This gives you the equivalent of an AT in your Mac II; it does run a bit faster than an AT, however. The other solution is software only - SoftPC. To get it to work acceptably, you need 5 meg RAM. It gives you an XT in your Mac II and is quite a bit slower than the hardware solution; it is much cheaper ($599???). Whichever you choose, you will need a disk drive that reads Ms-DOS disks to get the software onto your hard disk. A DaynaFile will work, as will the new high density Mac drives. In addition, you can hang an Apple 5.25" drive off the Mac286 board. > 2. What kind of major software for IBM PC really run on Mac II? I have the Mac286 board and have found that just about everything runs. What doesn't work reliably are programs that require more than CGA graphics. The programs run, but the screen looks really strange. Major sofware runs just fine (dBase IV, etc.). I use a DaynaFile with 3.5" and 5.25" drives to get the software onto a hard disk. As a writer, this is a perfect solution for me. I do all my own layout, and its easy to get Mac screen shots of the MS-DOS software, since MS-DOS is running in a Mac window!!!!!! Jan Harrington Scholastech Telecommunications husc6!stech!jlh or allegra!stech!jlh ************************************************************************* Miscellaneous profundidity: "No matter where you go, there you are..." Buckaroo Banzai *************************************************************************
desnoyer@apple.com (Peter Desnoyers) (06/22/89)
In article <391@arc.UUCP> steve@arc.UUCP (Steve Savitzky) writes: > In article <137@zip.eecs.umich.edu> ksuzuki@dip.eecs.umich.edu (Katsu Suzuki) writes: > >I heard from my friend that it is possible to run IBM PC program on Mac > >II with some kind of special hardware. [...] > > > The hardware emulator costs about $1K; the software one about $500. > For the same $500 you can buy a PC clone, complete with monitor, > keyboard, and disk drives. For another $500 or so you can put both > systems on the TOPS network so they can share files, or you can ship > files through the serial ports with Kermit or any other file-transfer > program. The result will be faster than the software emulator, > cheaper than the plug-in hardware, and guaranteed PC-compatible for > all software. In addition it doesn't tie up your Mac. For $89 you can get MacChuck remote, which allows you to run the PC from a window on the Macintosh, avoiding the need for a keyboard or monitor. (although you will need a video card) If you want to share files between the machines you need a TOPS FlashCard and TOPS (or an AppleTalk PC card and software to go with that) or else you can run MacChuck over the serial cable that comes in the box, and transfer files explicitly. MacChuck seems to be a good product in my personal experience, and seems robust (at least over TOPS running over a congested network with many gateways.) Check out the review in MacWeek a month or so ago. Disclaimer - none of this should be taken as indication that Apple endorses these products. This disclaimer should not be taken as indication that they don't. To tell the truth, I have no idea. Peter Desnoyers Apple ATG (408) 974-4469
nghiem@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Alex Nghiem) (06/22/89)
[Inquiry about how to run DOS programs on the MAC] Your best bet is probably the AST co-processor. Be sure to get the latest version of the driver software from technical support, though. The version supplied with our board had mouse driver problems. Raw 8088/80286 and Bios compatibility is excellent (Thanks to the cooperative venture of Apple, AST, and Phoenix), but there is still some problem in the IO interface, such as the MS-DOS Epson emulation<-->Apple talk printer interface, which I have not had time to fully examine. There may have been an 80386 board in the works, because the driver I received from AST Tech support was marked MACX86 instead of the original name of MAC286. However, I've heard that the AST Mac division was sold to Orange Micro. If the board is released, Orange should support it. I do not know what Orange's tech support for the AST boards will be like. The is also a program called SoftPC. I've never used it. But salesmen say it is ideal for limited PC processing. It is much cheaper that buying the AST Board.
nghiem@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Alex Nghiem) (06/22/89)
[suggestion to buy a clone in addition to the Mac instead of a DOS coprocessor or DOS software emulation] The disadvantage of this setup is that you can not have DOS and Mac process the same files simultaneously. With the AST coprocessor, you can network the D: drive to a Macintosh folder. Obviously, this setup will not allow you to pass executables, but Mac and DOS co-processor have transparent access to DATA files placed in the networked folder. In addition, everything is in one neat box, not spread across your work area. If your value of your time and space can justify the cost of the co-processor, consider the co-processor.
mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus) (06/22/89)
In article <14371@ut-emx.UUCP>, nghiem@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Alex Nghiem) writes: > [suggestion to buy a clone in addition to the Mac instead of a > DOS coprocessor or DOS software emulation] > > The disadvantage of this setup is that you can not have DOS and > Mac process the same files simultaneously. With the AST coprocessor, > you can network the D: drive to a Macintosh folder. Just to clarify this discussion: All of AST's Macintosh products have been sold to Orange Micro. They are supporting them fully from what I gather. If you get MacWEEK, check out their advertisement in 23 May 89 issue on page 10. For those of you who don't, here is a summary: * Contains it own memory (4 256K SIMMs if I remember correctly) * Rates an 8.2 on the Norton Computing Index, six times faster than an XT. * Software packages such as MS-Windows (that would be really cute), AutoCad, Lotus 1-2-3, Lotus Symphony, and Flight Simulator run with the Mac286, as well as most (if not all) compilers. * Has the ability to copy and paste graphics from an MS-DOS application into Macintosh applications. * Supports easy file transfers between MS-DOS and Mac file systems. If you haven't seen one, you should. With version 2.0 of the Mac drivers, the system performance was very good. (For those of you who remember the slow screen update of the 1.X versions, 2.0 is a major improvement.) -Michael -- Michael Niehaus UUCP: <backbones>!{iuvax,pur-ee}!bsu-cs!mithomas Apple Student Rep ARPA: mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu Ball State University AppleLink: ST0374 (from UUCP: st0374@applelink.apple.com)
ins_aayc@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Anthony Chang) (06/22/89)
I have run SoftPC on the mac II. The min config. is 2 MB w/ 68020 board. The prog seems to run well--it includes dos and gw basic. Although I do not know dos, I was able to get space war running on the mac and had some fun blowing up a friend. The only thing I noticed different was that the screen flickered a little and controls might have been sluggish (this might have been caused by our simultaneous typing of keys). The prog was created to run perfectally with WordPerfect and other major IBM programs (Lotus, etc). Other progs are said to run too (at least for spacewar it was true). The prog makes the mac believe it is the ibm running msdos. Within your HD, the prog creates a IBM hd (just like a normal file). Files are stored within the IBM HD or in mac. With multifinder, this makes a great arrangement for transporting between mac and ibm (especially w/dynafile or superdrive). SoftPC is by Insignia and the price has gone down. Hope this helps.
ins_apw@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Philip Wong) (06/22/89)
Any questions about the previous article on SoftPC posted by Anthony Chang was posted by me (I was borrowing his account)--what I meant to say is that if you have any questions, mail to ins_apw instead of ins_aayc.
astieber@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Anthony J Stieber) (06/23/89)
In article <14371@ut-emx.UUCP> nghiem@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Alex Nghiem) writes: >[suggestion to buy a clone in addition to the Mac instead of a >DOS coprocessor or DOS software emulation] > >The disadvantage of this setup is that you can not have DOS and >Mac process the same files simultaneously. With the AST coprocessor, >you can network the D: drive to a Macintosh folder. Not neccesarily. You could get a LocalTalk board for the PC. TOPS or Appleshare would allow you to use files from either machine. For greater speed, Ethernet cards could be used instead. This configuration will give you 5.25" conversion for nothing. Since the Mac can be used as a file server all you need is a cheap clone, these can be had for as little as $500. For even greater speed you can get a 386. This still will not make for the easy cut and paste that the AST board has. -- Tony Stieber astieber@csd4.milw.wisc.ed att!uwmcsd1!uwmcsd4!astieber
nghiem@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Alex Nghiem) (06/23/89)
[discussion to use local talk adapter or ethernet adapter with a clone to network folders/directories between PC and Mac, instead of an AST coprocessor] The limitation here would be the transfer speed across the local talk or ethernet cabling. With the AST coprocessor, you would not have this limitation. Also, are you sure it is cheaper to buy an AT clone with a Phoenix bios and networking cards plus hardware rather than just a 1500 list AST board?
beard@wuibc.UUCP (James Beard MD) (06/23/89)
Yes, you can run IBM PC software on a Mac II. The program that does this is SoftPC. It offers performance no better than that of a PC/XT, due to the fact that a single 80x86 command may take multiple 68020 commands to emulate. Reportedly it can handle the great majority of applications (as distinct from TSR utilities). Unfortunately I don't know the publisher (but felt obliged to respond in view of a reply that suggested there was no software-only way to run MS-DOS programs on a Mac II). If no one on the net names the publisher for you, try paging through a recent MacUser magazine. AST manufactured an IBM-PC emulator card for a while (I think they have very recently stopped), but the software method is far less expensive and obviously much easier to install.