boris@ulysses.homer.nj.att.com (Boris Altman) (01/11/87)
've heared that there is a difference in grades of Seagate disks.
The highest grade going to biggest clients like IBM and the lowest
going to small companies.
So, if I buy a disk from Jasmin say for $600 do I really get a disk
of lower quality than if I buy a GCC (or someone elses) product for
twice as much? Is the grade of the disk marked anywhere on the disk?
Should a buyer be concerned about it or there is practically
no difference? I hope qualified people can explain the difference.
Boris Altman
{ihnp4,ucbvax}!ulysses!boris
AT&T Bell Labsephraim@wang.UUCP (01/15/87)
In article <1647@ulysses.homer.nj.att.com>, boris@ulysses.homer.nj.att.com (Boris Altman) writes: > I've heared that there is a difference in grades of Seagate disks. > The highest grade going to biggest clients like IBM and the lowest > going to small companies. > So, if I buy a disk from Jasmin say for $600 do I really get a disk > of lower quality than if I buy a GCC (or someone elses) product for > twice as much? Is the grade of the disk marked anywhere on the disk? > Should a buyer be concerned about it or there is practically > no difference? I hope qualified people can explain the difference. > I think I'm qualified to comment, as I've done software for a variety of disks, including the popular Seagate ST225N, for a variety of companies. I have never heard any such thing. So far as I know, the disk that you buy from Jasmine is (statistically speaking) identical to the disk you buy from GCC, DataSpace, Apple, IBM, or anyone else. Jasmine's low prices are the result of a cash-up-front sales policy and direct sales only. GCC (for example) sells through dealers, which means that the dealers buy on credit from GCC, which means that GCC buys on credit from its suppliers, which means that you're paying a lot of financing and distribution costs, and you're supporting many more people than if you buy direct from a manufacturer. [For Boston area newsreaders, "We have no mortgages, so our costs are less. Come on down!" - Ernie Boch] This is not to say that you're wasting your money when you buy through a dealer. Is local service and support important? But you never know, until you need it, whether the dealer is really competent to provide it. Ephraim Vishniac decvax!wanginst!wang!ephraim
ephraim@wang.UUCP (pri=8 Ephraim Vishniac x76659 ms 014 590) (01/16/87)
In article <1647@ulysses.homer.nj.att.com>, boris@ulysses.homer.nj.att.com (Boris Altman) writes: > I've heared that there is a difference in grades of Seagate disks. > The highest grade going to biggest clients like IBM and the lowest > going to small companies. > So, if I buy a disk from Jasmin say for $600 do I really get a disk > of lower quality than if I buy a GCC (or someone elses) product for > twice as much? Is the grade of the disk marked anywhere on the disk? > Should a buyer be concerned about it or there is practically > no difference? I hope qualified people can explain the difference. > Last night, I repeated this rumor to Mark James of Jasmine Computer. He gave the following explanation of how such a false rumor might have started. Seagate does sell its disks with a variety of no-cost options. So, it's true that the disks received by different purchasers are different. The difference is *not* in quality, however, and the differences are at the customer's request. For the ST225N, options include: noise level (there's a "low-noise" 39dB option); LED; terminating resistors; and mounting arrangements. Mark cited two differences between the drives used by Apple and those used by Jasmine: Jasmine uses Seagate's LED (what does Apple do?) and Jasmine uses Seagate's terminating resistors (Apple makes you buy a separate cable terminator for extra $$). Ephraim Vishniac decvax!wanginst!wang!ephraim Claimer: I have a business relationship with Jasmine. But you can call and ask them for yourself.
graifer@net1.ucsd.edu (Dan Graifer) (08/26/87)
About once a month, somebody new asks the net for opinions on hard disks.
The Macintosh magazines do comparative reviews, but they are always way out
of date, and don't always cover the whole market.
I am probably going to be sorry I did this, but I hereby volunteer to gather
some statistics. Before you hit your (r)espond keys, let's think about this.
I want ONE LINE responses, with STANDARD TAB SEPARATED FIELDS. I can then
use switcher to paste the responses into my db. I would propose the following:
Make
SuperMac
Model
DataFrame 20
DriveMake
NA
Capacity MB
21
Type
SIDE (other responses are: UNDER, INTERNAL, OTHER)
Port
SCSI (OTHER)
DiskTimRead
98
DiskTimerWrite
99
DiskTImerAccess
69
(My XP upgrade is on order! I know DiskTimer results can be misleading,
but it is the only standardized test we have. I will include a notice
in any reports that I release)
HardwareReliability
5 (scale 0-5)
MakerResponsiveness
4 (scale 0-5)
Software
SPOOLER (vs NOSPOOLER)
BACKUP (vs NOBACKUP)
Noise
2 (0=Silent to 5=banshee)
Thus my response would be
SUPERMAC DATAFRAME 20 NA 21 SIDE SCSI 98 99 69 5 4 SPOOLER BACKUP 2
Is the potential for lines longer than 80 chars a problem for some hosts? Are
there important fields I am missing? Before I ask for responses, lets hash
this out. Once I post the final format, I would want EVERYONE on the net who
has a hard disk to send me a response. Only post if you cannot E-mail with
repeated tries!
I may loose net access by the end of this year. If so, I will mail somebody
else the DB.
I hope I am not going to be sorry I did this. Hopefully, after this has
exhausted me in a few months, someone else will take over the job for a
quarter. I expect to get a hundred responses immediately, and maybe that
many again over the next year. The resulting reports, and maybe even the
database could then be posted here or in the sources group.
PS, Oh, do you think date of purchase should be in the DB? I don't want
to ask for price, as some may not want to reveal special deals, and thats
subject to change over time anyways.
Dan Graifer
graifer@net1.UCSD.EDU
Disclaimer: Nobody ever listens to me anyways; Why should they start now?jlc@atux01.UUCP (J. Collymore) (08/27/87)
I just recently purchased a Peripheral Land external 30 Mb hard disk (fan-cooled) two weeks ago. Has anyone out there used a PL30 (Turbo) HD? Do you have any opinions or warnings about them? (I know now seems like a hell of a time to ask, but when I found out Computerware was having a clearance sale on them for $669 I couldn't resist! BTW, they were on clearance because they said they are no longer carrying PL stuff and they wanted to clear their stock, not because they're poor drives.) So what say you? Jim Collymore
joel@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (joel s. kollin) (03/15/88)
Can anyone out tell me something about CMS hard disks? I saw an ad today for a 60 Meg external for $795 from Hardware House. This is much better than anyone else, so I'm wondering what the catch is. Are they slow or noisy or something? Any other recommendations for cheap hard disks? Thanks joel
jmunkki@santra.UUCP (Juri Munkki) (03/16/88)
In article <2144@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU> joel@media-lab.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (joel s. kollin) writes: >Can anyone out tell me something about CMS hard disks? I saw an >ad today for a 60 Meg external for $795 from Hardware House. >This is much better than anyone else, so I'm wondering what the >catch is. Are they slow or noisy or something? There's no catch (I think). The CMS 60 MB drive is actually a Seagate ST277N. The local Seagate representative told me that Seagate in currently making this model in much larger quantities than the smaller models. Mass production has brought the prices down and the 277 is now almost as cheap as the ST225N (20MB drive). The ST277N is not really slow, but it's not fast either (40 ms). The CMS formatting software looks very good. Juri Munkki jmunkki@santra.hut.fi jmunkki@fingate.bitnet Disclaimer: Please place a standard disclaimer here.
gillies@uiucdcsp.cs.uiuc.edu (03/18/88)
The 40Mb and 80Mb Apple (and CMS) disks are made by quantum. The access time is 26.5ms on these disks. So the 60Mb disk is slower (40ms). In fact, 40ms is "unusually" slow for a 60Mb disk. That's probably part of the reason why they're cheaper. Seagate is the highest-volume manufacturer of sealed hard disks (this from a seagate employee). I think they make more than 1 million disks per month, and have almost half (50%) of the market for hard-disk units. So it is understandable that their drives are the cheapest.
martyl@bucket.UUCP (Marty Lee) (03/21/88)
I just got a Mass Micro 50i (50 Meg internal) for my Mac SE at work.
Installation was simple and straight forward and took only 5 minutes!
The drive even came with a torx head screw driver to open the Mac.
The Mass Micro mounts upright on an aluminum bracket over the two
existing floppy drives or Apple HD 20!!! It comes with space for
another (upto 100 Meg) drive also! (A possible 120 Meg online in the Mac
box!!!)
Iv'e been letting mine burn in for the past few days and it seems OK.
It makes for a great portable system!
(It cost $949 and arrived two days after ordering.)
teksce (Fastest path)
/ \
tektronix!reed! omen !bucket!martyl (Marty Lee)
\ /
percivalrudolph@intelisc.UUCP (David Rudolph) (06/16/88)
I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I haven't been around lately. I'd like comments on pros and cons of the various drives around for the Mac. I'm looking for something in the 20-40M range. If this is an old subject, then mail responses to me. thanks David Rudolph (CSNET) rudolph@isc.intel.com
strausd@romana.cs.orst.edu (Douglas E. Strauss) (02/14/89)
I have a nice little question. Why is the Macintosh community full companies who like to greatly over charge for Hard Disks? Is there any hard disks out there for sale in the 40 - 60 meg range and $300 - $500 Anybody try and hook up a IBM Disk drive to a mac with any luck? I AM NOT A NUMBER, I AM A FREE MAN! -Iron Maiden ------------------------------------------------------------ Doug Strauss Internet: strausd@romana.orst.edu Student in Computer Science Dept @ ## Have an Oregon State University > | ordinary Corvallis,Oregon 97331 @ day! ____________________________________________________________
calhoun@m.cs.uiuc.edu (02/21/89)
Connecting a typical IBM drive to a Mac illustrates a good portion
of the reason why Mac drives are more expensive. The typical IBM
drive has a Segate style interface. The Mac is SCSI. That means
to connect an IBM drive you have to add a Segate/SCSI conversion board.
IBM drives mount inside the IBM case very easily, however most IBM drives
would have to be in an extenal case to work on a Mac. This means
a power supply, and a case. Mac drives also require the actual driver
software be on the disk - so companies selling drives must either develop
or buy the driver software.
As you can see, when you buy an external drive for the Mac, you may be
paying for the drive, the case, a power supply, a Segate/SCSI conversion
board, and the driver software.
As an example lets see what it would be like putting these parts together
yourself (I have three drives that I assembled this way and they work
very well).
Item Cost Vendor
-------------------------------------------------------------
Atasi 3046 (39MB) Refurbished $275 jb Technologies
5.25" Hard disk case w/power supply $80 WETEX International
Adaptec 4000A Segate/SCSI board $60 Timeline, Inc.
Internal Cables $12 Altex Electronics
Mac SCSI Cable $10 Altex Electronics
Driver Software: Ephriam Vishniac (Shareware) -
--------------------------------------------------------------
Total: $437
I make no claims as to whether the above configuration will work. In
fact I'm not sure this particular hard disk case has enough room for the
drive and the Adaptec board. These happened to be the best prices I could
find in a quick skim of Computer Shopper Magazine. As you can see, even if
you can get the software for a pint of blood (Talk to Mr. Vishniac).
The unit will still cost you $162 more than the cost of the drive itself.
(Not to mention the time it'll take you to put it together)
Also, the above mentioned drive is not new, but is a refurbished drive.
Note> You can save some money ($72 Adaptec board & cables) by buying an
imbedded SCSI drive. jb Technologies sells the Segate ST251N (42MB)
for $395.
Jeff Calhoun
University of Illinois Computer Science Dept
Rm 222 Digital Computing Lab
1304 W. Springfield, Urbana, IL 61801
calhoun@cs.uiuc.edu | Contrary to Mrs. Grundy, sex is not sin.
uiucdcs!calhoun | Contrary to Hugh Hefner, it's not salvation
| either. -Frederick Buechnermbk@hpsemc.HP.COM (Miles Kehoe) (02/22/89)
Doug: I asked the same question not too long ago and luckily I found a local answer. A small start-up here in San Jose is taking IBM-type drives, plugging them into a scsi board, adding a power supply, and selling the drives. I went there to buy a fast 30M drive, but when I found their 80M drive was only $750 I decided to buy that instead. As I recall, their 20M drive (based on a Seagate 225) was about $350; the 40M about $500. If you need/want to reach them, let me know and I'll email or phone the address to you. I've enjoyed the drive for 2 months now with no problems, and it's guarenteed for a year. Not bad I'd say! Miles
pan@cbnews.ATT.COM (suzanne.s.pan) (06/29/89)
I am looking to buy a hard disk for my Macintosh Plus. What do people on the net recommend? I am looking for pros and cons on the great variety of hard disks out there. Thanks, Suzanne pan@cbnews.att.com