chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (07/08/89)
>Well Chuq, what can I say, not sure what hype you received, and not sure >what expectations you expected it to live up to. Somehow a jump from $40 >shareware to $80 commercial does not seem like a major increase in price >to me, perhaps it is to you. When someone takes a program and doubles the price, I expect something for the money. RR 9.4 and RR 10.3 are not significantly different products functionally. Before RR went commercial, new features and new releases were fairly common, Scott was responsive and things got done. It went commercial, three releases were sent out almost simultaneously and then silence (actually, not just silence: I remember the arguments on GENie about the excessive download problems with INITs that went from "you're crazy" to "well, I tested it and maybe you're right" -- but which still aren't fixed). Scott doubled the price of the product and one of the main features of RR -- the support Scott gave his customers -- went away. This is an improvement? You say Scripting is a pain, in comparison >to what? Not in comparison to anything. It's just amazingly nasty to write decent scripts. A good part of this is the complete lack of any non-trivial examples and unreadable documentation. >You think the documentation can be improved. The document is unimproved from 9.4 to 10.3. It was unreadable (and electronic) as shareware. It's unreadable (and printed) in hardcopy. I've spent a number of hours looking for things that should have been easy to find in that silly thing. >I have yet to find a manual that did not have room for improvement. Agreed. But there's a big difference between a manual that can get better and a manual that needs improvement to be useful. >but you will still spend >a lot more for your next choice of terminal if you go the commercial >route, and you are complaining about an increase of $40??? Yup. I'll spend more on the next program, but it'll be something with reasonable support and a useful manual, neither of which I currently have. My *real* complaint is not that the cost of RR increased $40, but for that extra $40 I'm getting less than I did when it was shareware. >Oh well, what can I say, the bottom line is always up to you. True. But this came out because you made some really snide comments about Word 3 and Word 4 -- that were not only inappropriate, but in my eyes were commenting about things that Freesoft is just as guilty of, if not more so. Glass houses and all that, Norm. Chuq Von Rospach =|= Editor,OtherRealms =|= Member SFWA/ASFA chuq@apple.com =|= CI$: 73317,635 =|= AppleLink: CHUQ [This is myself speaking. No company can control my thoughts.] You are false data. Therefore I shall ignore you.
ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM (Norman Goodger) (07/08/89)
In article <32960@apple.Apple.COM> chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: >When someone takes a program and doubles the price, I expect something for >the money. RR 9.4 and RR 10.3 are not significantly different products >functionally. Before RR went commercial, new features and new releases were >fairly common, Scott was responsive and things got done. It went commercial, >three releases were sent out almost simultaneously and then silence >(actually, not just silence: I remember the arguments on GENie about the >excessive download problems with INITs that went from "you're crazy" to >"well, I tested it and maybe you're right" -- but which still aren't fixed). I concur that some problems should have been fixed sooner. However there were still a variety of features in RR10 that were not in prior releases. Whether these faetures justified the $40 is another personal feeling. >Scott doubled the price of the product and one of the main features of RR -- >the support Scott gave his customers -- went away. This is an improvement? I guess this all depends on what you mean by support? If you mean that there should have been more upgrades to resolve problems, perhaps, but that can get old too. On Freesoft I have endeavored to answer any question posted there. Scott is always available directly by phone. I agree that he should peerhaps be more accessable on GEnie, but he has left that to me. If there are questions I cannot answer, I can check with him and answer it. Or you can always chat at him yourself. >Not in comparison to anything. It's just amazingly nasty to write decent >scripts. A good part of this is the complete lack of any non-trivial >examples and unreadable documentation. Scott realizes that he needs more examples of scripting in his documentation, and the new manual will be more comprehensive in this area. There is also a new Procedure Editor that will accompany RR11.. >Yup. I'll spend more on the next program, but it'll be something with >reasonable support and a useful manual, neither of which I currently have. >My *real* complaint is not that the cost of RR increased $40, but for that >extra $40 I'm getting less than I did when it was shareware. What is your defination of "reasonable support"?? And as I mentioned earlier, it is a matter of opinion as to whether the new features that RR10 provided are worth the price. For some it was I guess, and for others its not. >>Oh well, what can I say, the bottom line is always up to you. > >True. But this came out because you made some really snide comments about >Word 3 and Word 4 -- that were not only inappropriate, but in my eyes were >commenting about things that Freesoft is just as guilty of, if not more so. >Glass houses and all that, Norm. >Chuq Von Rospach =|= Editor,OtherRealms =|= Member SFWA/ASFA Yes, Stu's comment perhaps fell into the same category as mine, while you stand to defend Word 3.00 3.01 & 3.02 and 4.0. I do not feel I made the comment in light of whether Freesoft is quilty or not quilty, I made the comment in light of the fact that Microsoft has done the same things he's throwing Rocks at Freesoft for. If that was misperceived, sorry about that. The bottom line here is that each persons expectations are different, and yours like many others are quite high perhaps and you expect more for your $$, and there is nothing wrong with that. RR10 was Freesoft's first jump into the commercial market and as such perhaps has several things to learn, and perhaps things yet to learn, all of which takes time. While I represent Freesoft on a support level, trying to answer questions about the product, I can get involved in its defense as easily as you thought to defend Word, as you have in the past when others were complaining about the problems there were discovering in Word 4.0. nuff said...... -- Norm Goodger SysOp - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862 3Com Corp. Co-SysOp FreeSoft RT - GEnie. Enterprise Systems Division (I disclaim anything and everything) UUCP: {3comvax,auspex,sun}!bridge2!ngg Internet: ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM