chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (07/08/89)
>Speaking of disgraceful product releases, should one be reminded of >Word 3.00...Word 4.0 was not free either, so make sure your own closet >is clean before you a start accusing other software companies for failing >to deliver Stu. Word 4 isn't perfect, but at least Microsoft didn't build a wonderful customer perception selling inexpensive shareware, go commercial, raise the price significantly, ship three buggy releases within a week and then disappear for, what, 18 months? -- between 10.3 and the still rumored 11.0. I was willing to tolerate RR when it was shareware and had lots of rough edges. Now that it's commercial, however, it creates a higher level of expectation -- which it doesn't come close to meeting. Scripting is a pain, the documentation is ludicrous, the user interface is a farce. The only reason I still use 10.3 is because I haven't wanted to spend money on something else -- but I don't plan on upgrading to 11.0. I'm going to some other program instead. Chuq Von Rospach =|= Editor,OtherRealms =|= Member SFWA/ASFA chuq@apple.com =|= CI$: 73317,635 =|= AppleLink: CHUQ [This is myself speaking. No company can control my thoughts.] You are false data. Therefore I shall ignore you.
ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM (Norman Goodger) (07/08/89)
In article <32956@apple.Apple.COM> chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: > >Word 4 isn't perfect, but at least Microsoft didn't build a wonderful >customer perception selling inexpensive shareware, go commercial, raise the >price significantly, ship three buggy releases within a week and then >disappear for, what, 18 months? -- between 10.3 and the still rumored 11.0. >I was willing to tolerate RR when it was shareware and had lots of rough >edges. Now that it's commercial, however, it creates a higher level of >expectation -- which it doesn't come close to meeting. Scripting is a pain, >the documentation is ludicrous, the user interface is a farce. The only >reason I still use 10.3 is because I haven't wanted to spend money on >something else -- but I don't plan on upgrading to 11.0. I'm going to some >other program instead. >Chuq Von Rospach =|= Editor,OtherRealms =|= Member SFWA/ASFA > [This is myself speaking. No company can control my thoughts.] Well Chuq, what can I say, not sure what hype you received, and not sure what expectations you expected it to live up to. Somehow a jump from $40 shareware to $80 commercial does not seem like a major increase in price to me, perhaps it is to you. You say Scripting is a pain, in comparison to what? You think the documentation can be improved...yes it can, course I have yet to find a manual that did not have room for improvement. You don't have to upgrade to 11.0 when its released, but you will still spend a lot more for your next choice of terminal if you go the commercial route, and you are complaining about an increase of $40??? Oh well, what can I say, the bottom line is always up to you. While I can concur that some of the problems in RR10 should have been fixed earlier, they were not. RR11 solves all those problems and adds much more than before. This is not the first time that problems in software were not fixed as fast as you or I might have liked. -- Norm Goodger SysOp - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862 3Com Corp. Co-SysOp FreeSoft RT - GEnie. Enterprise Systems Division (I disclaim anything and everything) UUCP: {3comvax,auspex,sun}!bridge2!ngg Internet: ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM
mha@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Mark H. Anbinder) (07/09/89)
In article <788@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM> ngg@bridge2.3Com.com (Norman Goodger) writes: >In article <32956@apple.Apple.COM> chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: >>... >>I was willing to tolerate RR when it was shareware and had lots of rough >>edges. Now that it's commercial, however, it creates a higher level of >>expectation -- which it doesn't come close to meeting. ... > >Well Chuq, what can I say, not sure what hype you received, and not sure >what expectations you expected it to live up to. >... >Oh well, what can I say, the bottom line is always up to you. While I >can concur that some of the problems in RR10 should have been fixed >earlier, they were not. RR11 solves all those problems and adds much >more than before. I think we're going to have to wait and each evaluate Red Ryder 11.0 for ourselves. Norm obviously can't tell us much about what has and hasn't been fixed in 11.0, or what has and hasn't been added. I'd love to see a feature list describing what problems have been solved and what new and useful bits have been put in, but if we're not going to get one, I'm willing to wait. Norm's right, that the bottom line is up to the individual user. Chuq and I have different impressions of what's wrong and right with RR 10.3; I'm sure there are thousands of other equally valid impressions. When we get the software in front of us to discuss it, I'm sure we'll all have a very good idea of what changes have been made. If the rough edges have been smoothed to the point where it LOOKS and ACTS like an $80 commercial program, I'm sure Chuq will give 11.0 a chance. If not... even I, the eternal optimist, will probably give up. :-) We can just hope that Norm has been sending Scott a steady stream of summaries of the problems with RR 10.3 that have been discussed on the net in the last year and a half. If he has, and if Scott's been listening, then we'll probably find an excellent package that meets many of our unfilled needs in 11.0. A lot of if's? Maybe. But let's wait and see. -- Mark H. Anbinder ************************** mha@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu Baka Industries ** (biar!)memory!mha.uucp 200 Pleasant Grove Rd. H: (607) 257-7587 ******** Ithaca, NY 14850 W: (607) 257-2070 ******* "It's not safe out here." Q