jay@ut-emx.UUCP (Jay Boisseau) (06/21/89)
I currently use Red Ryder 10.3, and I have a few problems with it. The most important problem is the not-so-rare mishandling of esc codes, so that my screen ends up in reverse video and/or underline mode. Does anyone know how to get 10.3 to handle these escape sequences better? More importantly, does anyone know if 11.0 will do this? And will 11.0 do TEK4014 graphics? I hear Versaterm can, and I really need a terminal emulation program that can do this. Finally, can any beta-testers out there tell us what (other?) improvements Red Ryder 11.0 will have, and whether it is worth waiting for? Jay Boisseau jay@emx.utexas.edu
ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM (Norman Goodger) (06/28/89)
In article <14304@ut-emx.UUCP> jay@ut-emx.UUCP (Jay Boisseau) writes: >I currently use Red Ryder 10.3, and I have a few problems with it. The most >important problem is the not-so-rare mishandling of esc codes, so that my >screen ends up in reverse video and/or underline mode. Does anyone know >how to get 10.3 to handle these escape sequences better? >More importantly, does anyone know if 11.0 will do this? And will 11.0 >do TEK4014 graphics? I hear Versaterm can, and I really need a terminal >emulation program that can do this. >Finally, can any beta-testers out there tell us what (other?) improvements >Red Ryder 11.0 will have, and whether it is worth waiting for? Red Ryder 11 will not support Tek Graphics, perhaps some new product in the Future will handle Tek. I have no problems whatsoever with RR's vt100, it inverses when its supposed to, underlines with no problems at all. I' would suspect the termcap here, though its hard to say without specifically seeing your problem. As far as new features, Red Ryder 11 has several major new features over 10.3, however this is not the time to reveal those new features, though some have been mentioned here and there. It is well worth waiting for. And should be released later this summer.... -- Norm Goodger SysOp - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862 3Com Corp. Co-SysOp FreeSoft RT - GEnie. Enterprise Systems Division (I disclaim anything and everything) UUCP: {3comvax,auspex,sun}!bridge2!ngg Internet: ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM
nagel@ics.uci.edu (Mark Nagel) (06/28/89)
ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM (Norman Goodger) writes: > I have no problems whatsoever with RR's vt100, >it inverses when its supposed to, underlines with no problems at all. Does this mean that in 11.0 that the stupid update bug will be gone? You know the one -- you're in Emacs, you select some text for copying (perhaps this requires going backwards in the buffer -- I can't remember right now), and then you paste it back. When you're done, the inverted text is all goofy and if you're real lucky you get something that used to be on the screen an hour ago appearing in Emacs' message line. So, will it be fixed? -- Mark Nagel UC Irvine, Department of Information and Computer Science ARPA: nagel@ics.uci.edu UUCP: ucbvax!ucivax!nagel
ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM (Norman Goodger) (06/29/89)
In article <18813@paris.ics.uci.edu> nagel@ics.uci.edu (Mark Nagel) writes: >Does this mean that in 11.0 that the stupid update bug will be >gone? You know the one -- you're in Emacs, you select some text for >copying (perhaps this requires going backwards in the buffer -- I >can't remember right now), and then you paste it back. When you're >done, the inverted text is all goofy and if you're real lucky you >get something that used to be on the screen an hour ago appearing in >Emacs' message line. So, will it be fixed? >-- The reason for the text looking "funny" is because the control codes that made it inverse in the first place are being copied to clipboard and are no longer being filtered by the display when pasted back as text. I do not think there is a way around this problem, however I will ask Scott about it and see what he has to say about the problem. -- Norm Goodger SysOp - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862 3Com Corp. Co-SysOp FreeSoft RT - GEnie. Enterprise Systems Division (I disclaim anything and everything) UUCP: {3comvax,auspex,sun}!bridge2!ngg Internet: ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM
isle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Ken Hancock) (07/03/89)
In article <769@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM> ngg@bridge2.3Com.com (Norman Goodger) writes: >As far as new features, Red Ryder 11 has several major new features over >10.3, however this is not the time to reveal those new features, though >some have been mentioned here and there. It is well worth waiting for. And >should be released later this summer.... > Yeah, but most importantly, has Watson gone back and eliminated the brain-dead transfer protocals? Serious, 10 minutes to transfer an 80K file at 2400 baud isn't at all realistic. Hence why I'd switch to ANY terminal program over Red Ryder. Sadly enough, ZTerm 0.8 added features so that it'd transfer better with Red Ryder hosts/Red Ryder. Seems to me that Red Ryder should be fixing it's own problems instead of relying on other programmers to fix Red Ryders.... Ken Ken Hancock '90 | BITNET/UUCP/ Personal Computing Ctr Consultant | INTERNET: isle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu -----------------------------------+---------------------------------------- DISCLAIMER? I don't get paid enough to worry about disclaimers.
gall@yunexus.UUCP (Norman R. Gall) (07/04/89)
isle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Ken Hancock) writes: >Yeah, but most importantly, has Watson gone back and eliminated the >brain-dead transfer protocals? Serious, 10 minutes to transfer >an 80K file at 2400 baud isn't at all realistic. Hence why I'd >switch to ANY terminal program over Red Ryder. THIS has got to be the most silly problem with RR!! It makes no sense that shareware programmes should be THIS good with RR (the KING of comms progs) bogging down at 65cps at 2400bps under MF while Zterm.8 can do 220cps at the same BAUD rate. >Sadly enough, ZTerm 0.8 added features so that it'd transfer >better with Red Ryder hosts/Red Ryder. Seems to me that Red >Ryder should be fixing it's own problems instead of relying >on other programmers to fix Red Ryders.... I use RR for terminal emulation (still not what it should be) and Zterm for dowloads (Zterm will do 1400cps at 19.2K with no trouble at all...) Watson better be doing SOMETHING with my $90!!!!! nrg -- York University |"_Wanting_ to think is one thing; Department of Philosophy | having a talent for thinking another" Toronto, Ontario, Canada | - L. Wittgenstein (CV 44) _____________________________________________________________________________
ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM (Norman Goodger) (07/06/89)
In article <14171@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> isle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Ken Hancock) writes: >Yeah, but most importantly, has Watson gone back and eliminated the >brain-dead transfer protocals? Serious, 10 minutes to transfer >an 80K file at 2400 baud isn't at all realistic. Hence why I'd >switch to ANY terminal program over Red Ryder. >Sadly enough, ZTerm 0.8 added features so that it'd transfer >better with Red Ryder hosts/Red Ryder. Seems to me that Red >Ryder should be fixing it's own problems instead of relying >on other programmers to fix Red Ryders.... >Ken The speed problems that 10.3 has when used with slews of INIT's are gone in 11.0. RR11 is significantly faster in all areas over 10.3. However I don't have a clue as to what you mean by your last statement about Zterm, Scott does not rely on anyone elses programming to do his work. When RR11 comes out in the next couple months, there will be no problems with speed. -- Norm Goodger SysOp - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862 3Com Corp. Co-SysOp FreeSoft RT - GEnie. Enterprise Systems Division (I disclaim anything and everything) UUCP: {3comvax,auspex,sun}!bridge2!ngg Internet: ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM
friedman@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Daniel Friedman) (07/06/89)
In article <780@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM> ngg@bridge2.3Com.com (Norman Goodger) writes: > ... stuff deleted ... > >When RR11 comes out in the next couple months, there will be no problems >with speed. > >-- Will there be a working batch file transfer (unlike the broken Y-Modem of v10.3)?
wb1j+@andrew.cmu.edu (William M. Bumgarner) (07/06/89)
>When RR11 comes out in the next couple months, there will be no problems >with speed. Nope, it just ain't so. I have seen RR 11.0 (Scott demoed it to the local user's group). Throughput has been greatly improved, but that isn't saying much compared to 10.3. A friend ran ProComm+ under SoftPC (on a Mac IIcx) and timed it against RR 11.0 on the same IIcx (w/ and w/o multifinder, ProComm=/SoftPC ran w/MultiFinder), and RR 11.0 was either slower or the same speed as ProComm/SoftPC. The brain-damaged user-interface in 10.3 has become even more brain-damaged; all but a few menu-items are hierarchial. Even command-strokes are hierarchial; cmd-s, cmd-l to open a settings file (Settings Load). It works, and really isn't that bad, but the way scott implemented it, once you hit the first command key, the next command key hit (no matter if it is immediately following or 20 hours later) is interpreted as the sencond commmand stroke-- very confusing at times). The phone-book is still like the old one, only the door doesn't 'pop' open. The scripting language has NOT been improved; path names are still hard- coded and still have the x character limit. Want to lock up 11.0? Just move the folder that contains your script files and then select a user created menu item that tries to execute one of those scripts-- Red goes into an infinite loop of trying to execute a moved file. And it doesn't end there.... I am waiting to so MicroPhone II ver3.0 before I am jumping on the 'Red is the end-all of Mac telecommunications' bandwagon... b.bum wb1j+@andrew.cmu.edu
stuartb@microsoft.UUCP (Stuart Burden) (07/07/89)
In article <780@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM> ngg@bridge2.3Com.com (Norman Goodger) writes: >The speed problems that 10.3 has when used with slews of INIT's are gone >in 11.0. RR11 is significantly faster in all areas over 10.3. Sorry Norm, but I must disagree with you. I don't swallow the story of INIT's having such a devistating effect on transfer rates.. I tried using 10.3 with no init's and with all my INIT's and noticed no difference! >However I don't have a clue as to what you mean by your last statement >about Zterm, Scott does not rely on anyone elses programming to do his work. >When RR11 comes out in the next couple months, there will be no problems >with speed. > >-- >Norm Goodger SysOp - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862 >3Com Corp. Co-SysOp FreeSoft RT - GEnie. >Enterprise Systems Division (I disclaim anything and everything) >UUCP: {3comvax,auspex,sun}!bridge2!ngg Internet: ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM I think one point with Red that is being over looked here, are the people, like myself that upgraded to 10.3 with the promise of a fully intergrated Mac interface, I believe the quote went something like "Icons, dialogs... the whole ball of Mac wax"!.. well frankly Scott Watson did not deliver, and well over a year later he has still failed to deliver! Appart from the restructuring of a few menu items, the upgrade from 9.x to 10.3 was trivial! I think that this is discraceful conduct for a "commercial" product, and my feeling on the matter is that if version 11 is what Scott promised for version 10, then there are a lot of users like myself that should be given free updates. It really is a situation of "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me".. I'm not going to bite twice, thanks! Stu. __Paths to my door:_______________________ microsoft!stuartb@beaver.cs.washington.edu - Usual disclaimer, that all microsoft!stuartb@uw-beaver.arpa - the above is pure fantasy microsoft!stuartb@uunet.UU.NET - and Microsoft only [DE01HB]stuartb@DASNET# {from AppleLink} - gave me the Mountain Dew stuartb@microsoft.uucp {well connected} - to dream it all in a D2012 {@applelink.apple.com - shared acct} - caffeine haze :-) __________________________________________________________________________
ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM (Norman Goodger) (07/07/89)
In article <4297@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu> friedman@uhccux.UUCP (Daniel Friedman) writes: > Will there be a working batch file transfer (unlike the broken Y-Modem >of v10.3)? Of course, no problem.... -- Norm Goodger SysOp - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862 3Com Corp. Co-SysOp FreeSoft RT - GEnie. Enterprise Systems Division (I disclaim anything and everything) UUCP: {3comvax,auspex,sun}!bridge2!ngg Internet: ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM
adcscaff@csuna.csun.edu (Ed Skochinski) (07/07/89)
Has anyone had trouble using the Kermit transfer facilities of RR10.3? Kermit 9(40) works just fine whereas RR10.3 hangs after saying that the first packet was received. Will this be fixed at RR11?
ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM (Norman Goodger) (07/08/89)
In article <6237@microsoft.UUCP> stuartb@microsoft.UUCP (Stuart Burden) writes: >Sorry Norm, but I must disagree with you. I don't swallow the story >of INIT's having such a devistating effect on transfer rates.. I tried >using 10.3 with no init's and with all my INIT's and noticed no difference! >I think one point with Red that is being over looked here, are the people, >like myself that upgraded to 10.3 with the promise of a fully intergrated >Mac interface, I believe the quote went something like "Icons, dialogs... >the whole ball of Mac wax"!.. well frankly Scott Watson did not deliver, >and well over a year later he has still failed to deliver! Appart from the >restructuring of a few menu items, the upgrade from 9.x to 10.3 was trivial! >I think that this is discraceful conduct for a "commercial" product, and my >feeling on the matter is that if version 11 is what Scott promised for >version 10, then there are a lot of users like myself that should be given >free updates. >It really is a situation of "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame >on me".. I'm not going to bite twice, thanks! >Stu. > Your problem Stu is that you are confusing what Scott planned to do with Red Ryder Host. The idea of Icons and dialogs was something he planned to planned to integrate in Host, however I suspect like many grand plans reality sets in and one discovers that the problems that one encounters and the speed problems that would arise from a graphics interface as originally planned made for it not happening. However with the Shell Compiler you can create a Custom Interface for Procedure files. Using Dialogs etc, so part of the interface is there, and there are procedures that make use of the Shell Compiler on Genie. Speaking of disgraceful product releases, should one be reminded of Word 3.00...Word 4.0 was not free either, so make sure your own closet is clean before you a start accusing other software companies for failing to deliver Stu...as far as not upgrading and thinking that your being fooled, its your loss. Your problems lie in the your expectations it appears. Not quite sure what to tell you there.... -- Norm Goodger SysOp - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862 3Com Corp. Co-SysOp FreeSoft RT - GEnie. Enterprise Systems Division (I disclaim anything and everything) UUCP: {3comvax,auspex,sun}!bridge2!ngg Internet: ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM
ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM (Norman Goodger) (07/08/89)
In article <gYgsP4m00WBMA184pe@andrew.cmu.edu> wb1j+@andrew.cmu.edu (William M. Bumgarner) writes: >Nope, it just ain't so. I have seen RR 11.0 (Scott demoed it to the local >user's group). Throughput has been greatly improved, but that isn't saying >much compared to 10.3. >A friend ran ProComm+ under SoftPC (on a Mac IIcx) and timed it against RR 11.0 >on the same IIcx (w/ and w/o multifinder, ProComm=/SoftPC ran w/MultiFinder), >and RR 11.0 was either slower or the same speed as ProComm/SoftPC. >The brain-damaged user-interface in 10.3 has become even more brain-damaged; >all but a few menu-items are hierarchial. Even command-strokes are >hierarchial; cmd-s, cmd-l to open a settings file (Settings Load). It works, >and really isn't that bad, but the way scott implemented it, once you hit >the first command key, the next command key hit (no matter if it is >immediately following or 20 hours later) is interpreted as the sencond >commmand stroke-- very confusing at times). The phone-book is still >like the old one, only the door doesn't 'pop' open. >The scripting language has NOT been improved; path names are still hard- >coded and still have the x character limit. Want to lock up 11.0? Just >move the folder that contains your script files and then select a user >created menu item that tries to execute one of those scripts-- Red goes >into an infinite loop of trying to execute a moved file. >And it doesn't end there.... While I am not sure what version you saw, but a variety of changes have occured since the demo you saw....however you appear to be a person that would not be satisfied no matter what was done, and if you prefer to spend big $$ for your terminal program that does not much more than RR does, thats your privelege. The problem with commenting as you do about early beta versions is that things change, and what will actually ship will not be like what you are talking about... Other problems are how to compare actual file transfer speed, there are specific conditions under which file transfer speeds should be tested, and your comparison is not a good one. There are also limits on how fast transfers will go...RR11 will keep up with the best of them in my opinion now... nuff said I guess....we all have our own opinions...you will have to decide for yourself as others will when the time comes. -- Norm Goodger SysOp - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862 3Com Corp. Co-SysOp FreeSoft RT - GEnie. Enterprise Systems Division (I disclaim anything and everything) UUCP: {3comvax,auspex,sun}!bridge2!ngg Internet: ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM
tn07+@andrew.cmu.edu (Thomas Neudecker) (07/08/89)
Regarding the promise of icons and a "real" Mac interface in RedRyder: Scott has two products on the upgrade disk -- you buy Red or upgrade for a fee and you get a second communications program free. The second program is called AKEEDO ( however it is spelled ) it is a Mac to Mac communications program and it features all of the Mac icons allows for very fast file transfer,works in the background while you can do a lot of stuff that Timbuktu Remote does. It has been about three months sense I last saw and played with the program so I don't know what new things have been added. Version 11 has beefed up the Kermit to enclude long packets (you set the size), faster prefomance, and binary transfer.
david.dmytryshyn@f428.n250.z1.fidonet.org (david dmytryshyn) (07/10/89)
> Your problem Stu is that you are confusing what Scott planned to do > with Red Ryder Host. The idea of Icons and dialogs was something he > planned to planned to integrate in Host, however I suspect like > many grand plans reality sets in and one discovers that the problems > that one encounters and the speed problems that would arise from > a graphics interface as originally planned made for it not happening. > However with the Shell Compiler you can create a Custom Interface for > Procedure files. Using Dialogs etc, so part of the interface is there, > and there are procedures that make use of the Shell Compiler on Genie. I read an interesting proposal not too long ago regarding something akin to ANSI graphics on a PC, except that the codes would make windows, dialogs, icons, etc... A graphic interface. Wouldn't it be neat if everyone got together and agreed on some sort of a standard? I have the text file floating around somewhere, so if anyone wants it, I'll send it to them... > Speaking of disgraceful product releases, should one be reminded of > Word 3.00...Word 4.0 was not free either, so make sure your own closet Was for me... I called Microsoft (Canada) and received the update the same week... (Education type version) David.. [signature/disclaimer deleted to save bandwidth, join the club] --- FD 2.00 * Origin: Synaptic Communications (1:250/428)
stuartb@microsoft.UUCP (Stuart Burden) (07/10/89)
In article <784@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM> ngg@bridge2.3Com.com (Norman Goodger) writes: >Your problem Stu is that you are confusing what Scott planned to do >with Red Ryder Host. The idea of Icons and dialogs was something he >planned to planned to integrate in Host, however I suspect like >many grand plans reality sets in and one discovers that the problems >that one encounters and the speed problems that would arise from >a graphics interface as originally planned made for it not happening. >However with the Shell Compiler you can create a Custom Interface for >Procedure files. Using Dialogs etc, so part of the interface is there, >and there are procedures that make use of the Shell Compiler on Genie. I think RRHost is great!... I was a RRHost sysop for a short period of time in Australia, before moving to the US. My critisisms of RRHost would have been (at the time), lack of multiline support (which I believe has been changed now?) and the bother of having half a dozen apps all to design different parts of the BBS system.. a great bag of utilties but hardly efficient!.. all in all, my experiences with Host were very good (I looked at WWIV, MouseHole.. I think, and a couple of others that I don't even recall). I have reviewed various incarnations of Red Ryder for Australian MacWorld, as well as Microphone and others. I know what can be done with the Shell Compiler and ol'Red's proceedures, and you know that there where only minimal enhancments made to the scripting from 9 to 10, some new functions sure, but certainly nothing breakthrough. >Speaking of disgraceful product releases, should one be reminded of >Word 3.00...Word 4.0 was not free either, so make sure your own closet >is clean before you a start accusing other software companies for failing >to deliver Stu...as far as not upgrading and thinking that your being >fooled, its your loss. Your problems lie in the your expectations it >appears. Not quite sure what to tell you there.... Word 3 and Word 4 have absolutely no bearing on this discussion.. remember I CAN have a personal view or two also.. or do you see yourself as a 3Com employee, critisizing Microsoft..??? (insert: confused rehtorical shrug). Remember, Scott Watson is SOLELY responsponsible as creator, author, maintainer, distributor and retailer for the Red Ryder product! It's his baby, and if he promises even so much as a single feature and does not deliver, then it is solely his responsibility, and so is taking the critisism that follows. My expectation was not unreasonable. Scott advertised a product, I forked out the money and bought it and it was nothing like he promised it would be.. PERIOD! I'm entitled to be disgruntled, and I'm pointing out that on past performance, which is poor, I would not buy the upgrade!. I know about 3 or 4 people who bought the upgrade to RR10, none of whom are pleased with the product they got, for the promised feature enhancments, and none of whom will be upgrading to version 11. This is a 100% failing for RR!!. I know that you, as Scotts Sysop, will probably refute this, that's a given :-) I was also most disapointed in the touted GEnie forum for FreeSoft. After 4 weeks (one message per week) I recieved a 2 line reply about the through- put speed problems at high baud rates in 10.3 (clocked at approx 1200 - 2400 baud at 57.6K, direct connect). The response was almost exactly the same as your response about "a slew of INIT's". My response was that removing all the INIT's made little (at least no timable) difference.. I never heard another word about it.. still haven't.. a year later.. and the same non specific line about INIT's is being used. :-( (does not make for favourable reviews). I found what Scott promised for RR10, in Acknowledge and am quite happy with it's customisability and performance. If you think price is an issue, let me say that by the time Scott catches up to Acknowledge in technology and design, the Red Ryder upgrades would probably have paid for it anyway!. I don't think I'm missing anything in the Red Ryder 11 upgrade, Norm, the world of Macintosh communications has surged past Scott Watson and if he is trying to catch up, I wish him good luck, it would really be nice to see ol'Red back on top again.. but personally I don't think it will be. >-- >Norm Goodger SysOp - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862 >3Com Corp. Co-SysOp FreeSoft RT - GEnie. >Enterprise Systems Division (I disclaim anything and everything) >UUCP: {3comvax,auspex,sun}!bridge2!ngg Internet: ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM Stu. __Paths to my door:_______________________ microsoft!stuartb@beaver.cs.washington.edu - Usual disclaimer, that all microsoft!stuartb@uw-beaver.arpa - the above is pure fantasy microsoft!stuartb@uunet.UU.NET - and Microsoft only [DE01HB]stuartb@DASNET# {from AppleLink} - gave me the Mountain Dew stuartb@microsoft.uucp {well connected} - to dream it all in a D2012 {@applelink.apple.com - shared acct} - caffeine haze :-) __________________________________________________________________________
mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus) (07/10/89)
In article <oYhUZAK00WB8054VYx@andrew.cmu.edu>, tn07+@andrew.cmu.edu (Thomas Neudecker) writes: > The second program is called > AKEEDO ( however it is spelled ) it is a Mac to Mac communications program > and it features all of the Mac icons allows for very fast file transfer,works > in the background while you can do a lot of stuff that Timbuktu Remote does. > It has been about three months sense I last saw and played with the program > so I don't know what new things have been added. Also look for a new Mac-to-Mac file transfer program that works over AppleTalk, but definitely not packaged with Red Ryder. This software will be shareware, written by a capable programmer at Claris. A very nice implementation. Due out soon... -Michael -- Michael Niehaus UUCP: <backbones>!{iuvax,pur-ee}!bsu-cs!mithomas Apple Student Rep ARPA: mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu Ball State University AppleLink: ST0374 (from UUCP: st0374@applelink.apple.com)