heberlei@iris.ucdavis.edu (Todd) (07/06/89)
I am a new Mac (SE/30 :-) owner, and I have a few questions I hope some of you from net-land can help me with (dangle that preposition). * When I used the Macs in our Mac-lab, the word processors would always default to Geneva (sp?), but our laser printer would not support it. I assumed our lab was out of touch, but after setting up a brand new laser printer with an SE/30 (not mine), I still could not use Geneva. WHATS THE DEAL WITH THE GENEVA FONT? IF ITS THE MAC DEFAULT, SHOULDN'T THE LASER PRINTERS SUPPORT IT? * Are Fonts done with Bitmaps? Why not define a letter as a series of arcs (using control points)? This would solve all scaling and rotation constraints. Is this how Post Script does it? * Where can I find out about what uses Post Script? I looked through my Apple supplied manuals, MacDraw II manuals, and Word 4.0 manuals, but I could not find anything. If I purchased a laser printer that did NOT support Post Script, how could I find out what I could and could not do on it? * Is the HP laser printer any good? How much does it cost? (Our computer shop does not carry it) * Is the sound chip sitting unused in my Mac? I read in a Tech note that the chip is not supported by 6.0.3. Will things sound really neat (if and) when it is supported? * How do I kill the local queen thing at level 4 in The Colony? I have killed it, but then I can't get out of the little hallway that it is in. Just a few questions for which I am searching for answers. Any help would be appreciated. Also, If you could send me your internet address, I would appreciate it; when I have tried sending a "thank you" on several occasions, the mail has bounced. Thanks a lot, Todd Heberlein heberlei@iris.ucdavis.edu 128.120.57.20
chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (07/06/89)
>* When I used the Macs in our Mac-lab, the word processors >would always default to Geneva (sp?), but our laser printer would not >support it. Geneva is a bitmap font, not a postscript font. It is the default because not everyone uses laser printers and postscript. If you do have a postscript printer, some word processors (like Word) allow you to change the default font, and you can change the default to a postscript font like Times. You can also use something like Appfont to change the system default to a postscript font. Or you can go into "page setup" dialog and set the option that will convert the standard bitmap fonts to their postscript equivalents (Geneva to Time, for instance). >* Are Fonts done with Bitmaps? Why not define a letter as a series of >arcs (using control points)? This would solve all scaling and >rotation constraints. Is this how Post Script does it? That's how postscript does it, although the screen fonts for postscript fonts are still bitmaps. System 7.0 has a new font manager to do just what you're talking about. It was discussed at the developer's conference in May. >* Where can I find out about what uses Post Script? I looked through >my Apple supplied manuals, MacDraw II manuals, and Word 4.0 manuals, >but I could not find anything. If I purchased a laser printer that >did NOT support Post Script, how could I find out what I could and >could not do on it? If you have a postscript device, any program that uses the standard print manager can use postscript fonts with no problems. Applications would have to be programmed to allow special postscript hacking (Word does it with the Postscript style, Adobe Illustrator and Aldus Freehand have good postscript functionality. Others vary widely). If you purchase a printer that doesn't support postscript, what you can and can't do depends entirely on what the printer drivers support (or don't). Take a close look at functionality before you buy. IMHO, if you need more than a dot-matrix printer, buying something other than a postscript device is silly because of the limitations it creates. System 7.0 will eventually remove these limitations, but until everyone supports the new print functionalities it makes sens to stick with what works, and that's postscript. chuq Chuq Von Rospach =|= Editor,OtherRealms =|= Member SFWA/ASFA chuq@apple.com =|= CI$: 73317,635 =|= AppleLink: CHUQ [This is myself speaking. No company can control my thoughts.] You are false data. Therefore I shall ignore you.
mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus) (07/06/89)
In article <4830@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, heberlei@iris.ucdavis.edu (Todd) writes: > I am a new Mac (SE/30 :-) owner, and I have a few questions I hope > some of you from net-land can help me with (dangle that preposition). > > * When I used the Macs in our Mac-lab, the word processors > would always default to Geneva (sp?), but our laser printer would not > support it. I assumed our lab was out of touch, but after setting up > a brand new laser printer with an SE/30 (not mine), I still could not > use Geneva. WHATS THE DEAL WITH THE GENEVA FONT? IF ITS THE MAC > DEFAULT, SHOULDN'T THE LASER PRINTERS SUPPORT IT? No, the LaserWriters do not support Geneva because it exists in bit map form only. There is not a Postscript font to go along with it (more on that below). Generally, any font that is named after a city exists only as a bit map (usually referred to as a screen font). Fonts that don't seem to be named after anything tend to be Postscript fonts (also called printer fonts). Here is a partial listing: Screen Fonts (will print as bitmaps): Printer Fonts (very nice on a laser): Chicago Helvitica Zapf Dingbats Geneva Avant Guarde Times Monaco Palatino Courier Zapf Chancery New Century Schlbk If someone has a full listing, please post it. I am sure that it will be useful for many. To create good desktop publishing/word processing, it is best to use the printer fonts. [An aside: each printer font has a corresponding screen font so that you can see it on the screen.] > * Are Fonts done with Bitmaps? Why not define a letter as a series of > arcs (using control points)? This would solve all scaling and > rotation constraints. Is this how Post Script does it? Yes, all screen fonts are currently done using bit maps. Postscript fonts do use arcs/curves to describe the font. This is why they can look so good at any point size on the LaserWriters. The scaling and rotation that you mention is very math-intensive, so it was not used on Macs to this point. System 7.0, however, is supposed to support the use of these "outline fonts" (add a new term) on the screen. > * Where can I find out about what uses Post Script? I looked through > my Apple supplied manuals, MacDraw II manuals, and Word 4.0 manuals, > but I could not find anything. If I purchased a laser printer that > did NOT support Post Script, how could I find out what I could and > could not do on it? Anything that uses the "Official Postscript" from Adobe will have Adobe's logo on it somewhere. Also, Postscript printers cost (generally) more than $1000 more than non-Postscript laser printers. > * Is the HP laser printer any good? How much does it cost? (Our > computer shop does not carry it) The HP printer is good (it uses the same insides as the LaserWriters) but it is not Postscript. So, you will be dealing with high-resolution bit maps if you use this type of printer. The software that you use will determine what kind of results you get out of it. For example, to get good results, some printers will use fonts that are 4 times the size of the specified font, scaling it down to the size of the original font. This will remove the jagged edges from the printout. But, if some software will draw the fonts in a way that they cannot be done this way (like MacDraw II, as someone pointed out last week -- rotating the text), the quality will, well, suck. > * Is the sound chip sitting unused in my Mac? I read in a Tech note > that the chip is not supported by 6.0.3. Will things sound really > neat (if and) when it is supported? Unknown. I think that the sound support now is outstanding. So if it gets better in the future, I can't wait. Ask an IBM user if he or she can get the computer to talk and play music without sounding like a $20 tape player... > * How do I kill the local queen thing at level 4 in The Colony? I > have killed it, but then I can't get out of the little hallway that > it is in. Sorry, I haven't ever played Colony. But I have figured out how to create super characters in Theldrow (18's), as well as making all mosters easy to kill (takes the fun out of it, but I'm not patient enough). Now if someone could just tell me how to sleep... > Todd Heberlein > heberlei@iris.ucdavis.edu 128.120.57.20 -Michael -- Michael Niehaus UUCP: <backbones>!{iuvax,pur-ee}!bsu-cs!mithomas Apple Student Rep ARPA: mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu Ball State University AppleLink: ST0374 (from UUCP: st0374@applelink.apple.com)
landman%hanami@Sun.COM (Howard A. Landman) (07/07/89)
>In article <4830@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, heberlei@iris.ucdavis.edu (Todd) writes: >> WHATS THE DEAL WITH THE GENEVA FONT? IF ITS THE MAC >> DEFAULT, SHOULDN'T THE LASER PRINTERS SUPPORT IT? In article <8089@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus) writes: >No, the LaserWriters do not support Geneva because it exists in bit map >form only. Sorry, Michael, you didn't answer Todd's question. He asked whether the laser printers SHOULD support the default fonts. The correct answer is, yes, of course they should; or at least Apple should release PostScript versions of them. Failure to do so creates problems for users (like Todd). As you pointed out, however, they don't. >I think that the sound support now is outstanding. You mean that the grotty CLICK! <sound plays> CLICK! is outstanding? Or that the annoying background tick-tick-tick when nothing is playing is outstanding? You need to be more clear. "... the first personal computer worth criticizing." - Alan Kay Howard A. Landman landman@sun.com
mha@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Mark H. Anbinder) (07/07/89)
In article <114037@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> landman@sun.UUCP (Howard A. Landman) writes: >>In article <4830@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, heberlei@iris.ucdavis.edu (Todd) writes: >>> WHATS THE DEAL WITH THE GENEVA FONT? IF ITS THE MAC >>> DEFAULT, SHOULDN'T THE LASER PRINTERS SUPPORT IT? >In article <8089@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus) writes: >>No, the LaserWriters do not support Geneva because it exists in bit map >>form only. >Sorry, Michael, you didn't answer Todd's question. He asked whether the >laser printers SHOULD support the default fonts. The correct answer is, >yes, of course they should; or at least Apple should release PostScript >versions of them. Failure to do so creates problems for users (like Todd). I've always thought that Apple's support for printing Geneva and other standard bitmap fonts to the LaserWriter was above and beyond the call of duty. When you turn on "Font substitution" in the LaserWriter's Page Setup dialog box (it is on by default), three common bitmap fonts are translated into PostScript fonts for you: Geneva is rendered as Helvetica, New York is rendered as Times, and Monaco is rendered as Courier. This means that even if you write your document on a machine that does not have these PostScript fonts in its System, they will print out nice and smooth. It's true that for OTHER bitmap fonts, the print driver is unable to convert the font to a PostScript font for you, but I don't think that's unreasonable. What you really need to do is note which fonts are laser fonts and which are not. The original LaserWriter made it easy; it came with four font families built in: Times, Helvetica, Courier, Symbol. The LaserWriter Plus, and the LaserWriter II NT and NTX come with eleven font families built in: Avant Garde, Bookman, Courier, Helvetica, N Helvetica Narrow, New Century Schoolbook, Palatino, Symbol, Times, Zapf Chancery, and Zapf Dingbats. Unless you have specially purchased other PostScript fonts, whether from Adobe, Bitstream, CG, Casady, or whoever, then ONLY these fonts are laser fonts and will print in high quality on the laser printer. Other fonts are most likely BITMAP ONLY, and will print as patterns of dots. Michael already did a good job of explaining the differences between the bitmap and PostScript fonts, so I won't go into that. :-) -- Mark H. Anbinder ************************** mha@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu Baka Industries ** (biar!)memory!mha.uucp 200 Pleasant Grove Rd. H: (607) 257-7587 ******** Ithaca, NY 14850 W: (607) 257-2070 ******* "It's not safe out here." Q
captkidd@athena.mit.edu (Ivan Cavero Belaunde) (07/08/89)
In article <114037@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> landman@sun.UUCP (Howard A. Landman) writes: >In article <8089@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus) writes: >>I think that the sound support now is outstanding. >You mean that the grotty CLICK! <sound plays> CLICK! is outstanding? Or that >the annoying background tick-tick-tick when nothing is playing is outstanding? >You need to be more clear. Actually, the CLICK! <sound> CLICK! is not Apple's fault completely; there is a TechNote that explains how to do sound properly (ie no clicks). You can hardly blame Apple when developers are not following the rules. I certainly wont bitch at Apple when MSWord 4 breaks under System 7.0, for example, since Microsoft is notoriously bad at that. As an aside, it is my understanding that just about everything Microsoft has out now will break, since the system software will stop special-casing Microsoft software that needs to run in the first meg of memory. That'll show 'em. > Howard A. Landman -Ivan Internet: captkidd@athena.mit.edu
mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus) (07/08/89)
In article <12498@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU>, captkidd@athena.mit.edu (Ivan Cavero Belaunde) writes: > I certainly > wont bitch at Apple when MSWord 4 breaks under System 7.0, for example, since > Microsoft is notoriously bad at that. As an aside, it is my understanding > that just about everything Microsoft has out now will break, since the > system software will stop special-casing Microsoft software that needs to > run in the first meg of memory. That'll show 'em. > > -Ivan I didn't know that the system software "special cased" anything that Microsoft produces. Right now, I am running Oracle and then trying to run Excel 1.5. No go: Oracle has an INIT that grabs 400K of memory at startup time. Excel just puts up this little "fragmented memory" message. So to use 1.5, I have to remove the Oracle INIT (or figure out which keys to press to deactivate Oracle while still allowing the other INITs to load in. It's amazing what pressing the Option key at startup can do). As for Microsoft: they are improving. I currently have a copy of Microsoft Excel 2.2 beta 5. It will actually run on my machine! So what if it requires 1024K under MultiFinder to run (maybe the release will tune this down somewhat). The message bar at the bottom of the screen really annoys me, though. Luckily, you can turn it off. Looks to be a very nice product. -Michael -- Michael Niehaus UUCP: <backbones>!{iuvax,pur-ee}!bsu-cs!mithomas Apple Student Rep ARPA: mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu Ball State University AppleLink: ST0374 (from UUCP: st0374@applelink.apple.com)
nilesinc@well.UUCP (Richard Niles) (07/12/89)
in article 37640 (of 37735), mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus)
writes: I didn't know that the system software "special cased" anything that
Microsoft produces.
Actually, the Mac System special cases a *lot* of stuff for Microsoft:
it's left over from 1984 and Mac introduction. If you were trying to sell
a new OS, wouldn't you special-case for the only big software company
writing on your computer? I'm not saying that it makes sense now, but I can
see why it made sense then...