chupa@vax1.acs.udel.EDU (Michael A Chupa) (07/27/89)
Does anyone out there in netland know if the "code" feature has been excised from Word 4.0? I can't seem to invoke it in the way 3.02 did it...selecting a char and clicking in the page # box.
briand@tekig4.LEN.TEK.COM (Brian Diehm) (07/29/89)
>Does anyone out there in netland know if the "code" feature >has been excised from Word 4.0? I can't seem to invoke it in >the way 3.02 did it...selecting a char and clicking in the >page # box. Try Command-Option-Q when the selection is between characters. It lets you type in a code. If you select a character and type Command-Option-Q, it tells you the code of that character. There is a Commands... command to do this: Paste Special Character. The entire feature is undocumented. We found it because one person in the department was VERY persistent, and discovered Command-Option-Q. With that in hand, we tried to find the equivalent command. We filed until we tried to assign the Command- Option-Q sequence to another command, when it asked us if we wanted to de-assign it from the Paste Special Character command. Voila - we found the magic command name. Armed with all that, we looked it up in the documentation. COMPLETELY undocumented. Thanks, Microsoft. Thpppppt.... BTW, has anyone else noticed that if you install the new Adobe NFNT numbering scheme for the Symbol font, that equations break in Word. Those stupid dolts at Microsoft STILL think that font assignment should be saved by number only! Stupid is one thing, viciously stubbornly stupid should be boycotted. . . -- -Brian Diehm Tektronix, Inc. (503) 627-3437 briand@tekig4.LEN.TEK.COM P.O. Box 500, M/S 39-383 Beaverton, OR 97077 (SDA - Standard Disclaimers Apply)
sklein@cdp.UUCP (07/29/89)
To find out the ascii value of any character on the screen (in MW Word 4.0):
1) select (highlight) the character
2) type Option-Command-Q
-shabtaidavidlu@microsoft.UUCP (David Luebbert) (07/31/89)
>>Does anyone out there in netland know if the "code" feature >>has been excised from Word 4.0? I can't seem to invoke it in >>the way 3.02 did it...selecting a char and clicking in the >>page # box. Brian Diehm (Tektronix, Inc.) replies... >Try Command-Option-Q when the selection is between characters. It lets you >type in a code. If you select a character and type Command-Option-Q, it tells >you the code of that character. >There is a Commands... command to do this: Paste Special Character. The >entire feature is undocumented. We found it because one person in the >department was VERY persistent, and discovered Command-Option-Q. With that >in hand, we tried to find the equivalent command. We filed until we tried to >assign the Command-Option-Q sequence to another command, when it asked us if >we wanted to de-assign it from the Paste Special Character command. Voila - >we found the magic command name. Armed with all that, we looked it up in the >documentation. COMPLETELY undocumented. >Thanks, Microsoft. Thpppppt.... Actually, it's very easy to get a list of all of Word 4.0's commands key and menu assignments by using the Edit/Commands dialog. Simply press the List button. This creates a new document consisting of a table listing every Word command and its current assignments. If you want to know what a command does press the Help... button in the dialog. For Paste Special Character the Help button produces the text: "Inserts a special font character indicated by decimal code you type". The fact that Word can tell you what a command does at user request puts the lie to the claim the Paste Special Character command is "COMPLETELY undocumented". Dave Luebbert Microsoft Corporation
drg@wjh12.harvard.edu (Dean R Gallant) (08/01/89)
In article nnn briand@tekig4.LEN.TEK.COM (Brian Diehm) writes: >>Does anyone out there in netland know if the "code" feature >>has been excised from Word 4.0? > >There is a Commands... command to do this: Paste Special Character. The entire >feature is undocumented. . . .Armed with all that, we looked it up in the >documentation. COMPLETELY undocumented. > >Thanks, Microsoft. Thpppppt.... > Appendix D in the 4.0 manual, "The Macintosh Character Set" documents this feature succinctly. It is indexed under "Character set/finding character by number" and also under "Searching" and "Macintosh character set" and "character formatting/keyboard procedures" and referenced under "finding"; in addition there is reference to it on p.58 under "finding or replacing with special characters." These may not be the places that we'd all have listed the feature, but it's a broad range. Sometimes, alas, it helps to thumb through the manual merely to see how the writers put the thing together. Often the appendices will contain just the kind of information you're looking for but don't know how to find in the index. -- Dean Gallant drg@wjh12.harvard.edu Center for the Behavioral Sciences drg@harvunxw.BITNET
briand@tekig4.LEN.TEK.COM (Brian Diehm) (08/01/89)
> Actually, it's very easy to get a list of all of Word 4.0's commands key and > menu assignments by using the Edit/Commands dialog. Simply press the List > button. This creates a new document consisting of a table listing every Word > command and its current assignments. If you want to know what a command does > press the Help... button in the dialog. For Paste Special Character the Help > button produces the text: "Inserts a special font character indicated by > decimal code you type". The fact that Word can tell you what a command does > at user request puts the lie to the claim the Paste Special Character command > is "COMPLETELY undocumented". > > Dave Luebbert > Microsoft Corporation OK, you win, it's not COMPLETELY undocumented. It's just that in order to find out about the feature, you have to already know about the feature. When we started our quest to find the feature (we knew it was in 3.xx), we looked for all the appropriate topics we could think of in indexes and tables of contents. WHO WOULD GUESS THIS FEATURE WOULD BE FOUND UNDER PASTE? OR SPECIAL CHARACTER? We tried Code (suggested from the old feature), ASCII, literal, insert, and several others, but a group of people spent a half hour on it without getting it from the manual. Another member of the group found it first by experimen- tation. To top it off, when we DID find it, we looked it up under the name Paste Special Character in the dictionary-style list of topics in the reference manual. No go. It turns out the discussion is in the "Keyboard" section, under Paste Special Character. I've gone back and asked people later if they had seen that, and one person remembers scanning it and rejecting it as unlikely - mostly because they thought it meant some sort of special paste operation, as in a variation of the typical paste. I think, but cannot say for sure, that I did exactly the same thing. In other words, a quick scan got no farther than "Paste Special..." and the name was rejected as unlikely. This is a difficult area, I know because I also write user manuals. Believe me, I sympathize. It is difficult to remember that when the going is hot and heavy, and you can't find the information you want, you are in the WORST frame of mind for being able to scan for alternate names, or to figure out THE COMPANY'S name for whatever it is you are looking for. In this case, several people worked on it, and at least I had felt that I had gone through the documentation pretty thoroughly beforehand. The documentation did not anticipate our expectations. The problem is made worse when the user has a totally different expectation of how the feature will work than the way it has been implemented. This is the fault of neither the vendor nor the user, and often the user will understand the implementation philosophy immediately when it is explained. It's just that the expectations the user brings to the task (from background, from experience, or from cultural heritage) may be different. It is the job of the writer to anticipate all this. (The process is also made difficult when the product is at variance with established standards, say, Apple's Human Interface Guidelines. Bruce Tognazzini's article about non-modal modal dialog boxes is particularly apposite. July 89 Apple Direct) It is incumbent on the writers to index under EVERY LIKELY title that people may think of when they search for the feature, not just the name that the feature has been assigned for that package. That's a tall order, and Microsoft isn't alone in doing a less-than-perfect job. However, the lack of user- orientation as opposed to "official" orientation seems pretty strong in Word documentation. If Microsoft differs with this opinion, they should listen to their customers instead of trying to shout them down. I am certainly not alone in my critical assessment, if my incoming mailbox is to be believed. -- -Brian Diehm Tektronix, Inc. (503) 627-3437 briand@tekig4.LEN.TEK.COM P.O. Box 500, M/S 39-383 Beaverton, OR 97077 (SDA - Standard Disclaimers Apply)
weinhous@dinorah.wustl.edu (Martin S. Weinhous) (08/01/89)
In article <379@wjh12.harvard.edu>, drg@wjh12.harvard.edu (Dean R Gallant) writes: > In article nnn briand@tekig4.LEN.TEK.COM (Brian Diehm) writes: > >... command to do this: Paste Special Character. The entire > >feature is undocumented. . . .Armed with all that, we looked it up in the > >documentation. COMPLETELY undocumented. > > > Appendix D in the 4.0 manual, "The Macintosh Character Set" documents > this feature succinctly. Perhaps Microsoft should recognize from the above and other similar comments that the documentation index needs to be expanded and needs better cross-referencing. I also have been too often been frustrated by the Word 4 reference manual index.
jhenry@randvax.UUCP (Jim Henry) (08/03/89)
Paste Special Character is documented on p. 158 of the User's Guide. It is indexed under the heading "Special Character".