[comp.sys.mac] DeskJet, PaintJet and DeskWriter

brucer@pwcs.UUCP (Bruce Alan Riebe) (08/04/89)

What Success/horror stories can you share regarding the: DeskJet,
PaintJet and DeskWriter?  What about grappler and MacPrint
interface?  Which of the above is better?

Breaking the 'Piggy Bank' makes me nervous, but I want better
letter quality (possibly color) than is attainable with the
Imagewriter.  Since budget is less than 1200.00 a postscript
printer is out of the question....8-(

This is for a college students personal use.  Please advise.

Any rumors on a new Apple Printers???


email  brucer@pwcs.StPaul.GOV

-- 
Bruce Riebe: Supervisor of User Services 
City of St. Paul Public Works Computer Services
700 CHA 25 W. 4th St.  St. Paul, MN 55102-1660 (612) 298-5553
Quote: Keep grandma off the streets -- legalize bingo. (Fortune)

mjkobb@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Michael J Kobb) (08/05/89)

In article <9291@pwcs.UUCP> brucer@pwcs. (Bruce Alan Riebe) writes:
>What Success/horror stories can you share regarding the: DeskJet,
>PaintJet and DeskWriter?  What about grappler and MacPrint
>interface?  Which of the above is better?

If you're using this thing for a Mac, I'd say go with the DeskWriter for sure.
I don't own one, but I tried one out at a dealer yesterday with some really
nasty specially-prepared files.  It worked great, and it was even faster than
a LaserWriter Plus on one of the documents (a Word 4.0 doc w/lots of different
text sizes and styles)!  The DeskWriter is specially designed for the Mac and
comes with a driver and Mac fonts.  The other printers are originally for the
IBM world, and can be used with a Mac with a special interface.  They use the
same engine, though.  The hook:  The DeskWriter is supposedly faster than the
DeskJet+ with an interface, and it should cost the same or less!  (Including
the cost of the interface...)

Also, to answer one of my earlier questions on this family of printers,
according to MacWorld, HP is working on a non-water-soluable ink for these
printers.  No promises, though.

--Mike

Standard disclaimers...

mec@mtfmi.att.com (M.CONNICK) (08/07/89)

In article <434@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU> mjkobb@media-lab.media.mit.edu (Michael J Kobb) writes:
>In article <9291@pwcs.UUCP> brucer@pwcs. (Bruce Alan Riebe) writes:
>>What Success/horror stories can you share regarding the: DeskJet,
>>PaintJet and DeskWriter?  What about grappler and MacPrint
>>interface?  Which of the above is better?
>
>If you're using this thing for a Mac, I'd say go with the DeskWriter for sure.
>I don't own one, but I tried one out at a dealer yesterday with some really
>nasty specially-prepared files.  It worked great, and it was even faster than
>a LaserWriter Plus on one of the documents (a Word 4.0 doc w/lots of different
>text sizes and styles)!  The DeskWriter is specially designed for the Mac and
>comes with a driver and Mac fonts.  The other printers are originally for the
>IBM world, and can be used with a Mac with a special interface.  They use the
>same engine, though.  The hook:  The DeskWriter is supposedly faster than the
>DeskJet+ with an interface, and it should cost the same or less!  (Including
>the cost of the interface...)

The DeskWriter has a list price of $200 over the DeskJet +, so I
seriously doubt that you're going to get one for the same or less. You
can run a DeskJet or DeskJet + quite satisfactorily with the
completely free HPDJ driver, or spend only $79 for the really excellent
MacPrint driver.

We went the "real cheap" route and bought a lowly DeskJet. They can now
be had for $500 or even less. With the MacPrint driver they offer
everything we'd use in the MUCH more expensive DeskWriter except for
speed. Our printing demands are simply not high enough to justify the
much greater expense. Since MacPrint supports both the built-in and
cartridge fonts of the DeskJet (neither of which are available on the
DeskWriter), we can actually get the same speed out of our DeskJet as
a DeskWriter by using them.

So if money is a concern, I'd recommend seriously shopping around for
a DeskJet or perhaps even a DeskJet +. I'm sure the DeskWriter is a
fine printer, I'm just not sure if it's worth spending that much more
money for it.

-----------------------------------------------------
Michael Connick    att!mtfmi!mec        201-957-3057
AT&T Bell Labs     MT 3F-113	        (Dept. 79153)

mel@fleet.UUCP (mel) (08/08/89)

According to a trade journal HP is considering building a low cost 
laser printer that would be much less expensive than Apple's SC version
although it would have only a 4 page per minute rating.  Doubt if it will
have postscript.

This will take place if HP has success with the Deskwriter according to the
article.

rickk@hpvcfs1.HP.COM (Rick Klaus) (08/14/89)

>The DeskWriter has a list price of $200 over the DeskJet +, so I
>seriously doubt that you're going to get one for the same or less. You
>can run a DeskJet or DeskJet + quite satisfactorily with the
>completely free HPDJ driver, or spend only $79 for the really excellent
>MacPrint driver.

The DeskWriter does list for more, but several booths at MacWorld were
selling it for $775.  Once you add the price of the third party driver
to the DJ+ cost, you are in the same ballpark.  In addition, the DW driver
has been extensively tested and is compatible with most Mac Applications.
MacWeek "expected to find many more problems than [they] encountered."
You are not going to get this with a Public Domain driver.

>We went the "real cheap" route and bought a lowly DeskJet. They can now
>be had for $500 or even less. With the MacPrint driver they offer
>everything we'd use in the MUCH more expensive DeskWriter except for
>speed. Our printing demands are simply not high enough to justify the
>much greater expense. Since MacPrint supports both the built-in and
>cartridge fonts of the DeskJet (neither of which are available on the
>DeskWriter), we can actually get the same speed out of our DeskJet as
>a DeskWriter by using them.

The DeskJet is cheaper, but the speed is SO much slower that it is almost
unbearable.  As for cartridge fonts speeding things up, you are throwing
WYSIWYG out the window when you try to mix Mac fonts and graphics with
printer fonts.

>Michael Connick    att!mtfmi!mec        201-957-3057

Rick Klaus
hpvcfs1!rickk

mec@mtfmi.att.com (M.CONNICK) (08/15/89)

In article <780033@hpvcfs1.HP.COM> rickk@hpvcfs1.HP.COM (Rick Klaus) writes:

>The DeskJet is cheaper, but the speed is SO much slower that it is almost
>unbearable.  As for cartridge fonts speeding things up, you are throwing
>WYSIWYG out the window when you try to mix Mac fonts and graphics with
>printer fonts.

Gee, doesn't anyone read what I post?

AGAIN, with the MacPrint driver you can use the DeskJet fonts, either
built-in or cartidge, just like any other font. You SEE them on your
screen with WYSIWYG look and spacing. However, when you print them out
you get 2 pages/minute speed. You can mix the DeskJet fonts with
QuickDraw fonts in the same document, even in the same line. When
MacPrint encounters a DeskJet font, printing speeds up dramatically.
When it encouters a QuickDraw font or bit-mapped or PICT graphics, it
enters graphics mode and prints much slower. So if you use the DeskJet
Times cartridge and have the bulk of your text in Times, you can get
output that's about as fast as the DeskWriter. If you use both the
Times and Helvetica cartridges and have only those fonts in your
document, I'd wager you could probably beat the DeskWriter!

Wow, that all looks familiar, doesn't it? ;-)

As to whether the speed of printing all QuickDraw stuff is unbearable,
it's really in the eye of the beholder. A typical text page using
nothing but QuickDraw fonts will print out in less than two minutes at
300 dpi.  If you add grahpics, it's slower. You get faster speeds by
printing at 75 or 150 dpi. The absolutely slowest document we ever
printed was a newsletter page with lots of grahpics, including a
digitized photo. The page took almost 7 minutes to print at 300 dpi.
With our printing volume and being able to print out in background
under MultiFinder, these rates are completely acceptable to us. With
a price today of around $500 total for the DeskJet and MacPrint driver
(complete with cable) I think this is still one terrific
price/performance ratio. If money were no object, I'd buy a
LaserWriter II NT!

-----------------------------------------------------
Michael Connick    att!mtfmi!mec        201-957-3057
AT&T Bell Labs     MT 3F-113	        (Dept. 79153)

parent@apple.com (Sean Parent) (08/16/89)

In article <780033@hpvcfs1.HP.COM> rickk@hpvcfs1.HP.COM (Rick Klaus) 
writes:
> >We went the "real cheap" route and bought a lowly DeskJet. They can now
> >be had for $500 or even less. With the MacPrint driver they offer
> >everything we'd use in the MUCH more expensive DeskWriter except for
> >speed. Our printing demands are simply not high enough to justify the
> >much greater expense. Since MacPrint supports both the built-in and
> >cartridge fonts of the DeskJet (neither of which are available on the
> >DeskWriter), we can actually get the same speed out of our DeskJet as
> >a DeskWriter by using them.
> 
> The DeskJet is cheaper, but the speed is SO much slower that it is almost
> unbearable.  As for cartridge fonts speeding things up, you are throwing
> WYSIWYG out the window when you try to mix Mac fonts and graphics with
> printer fonts.

Orange Micro just anounced the Grappler LX. This is basicaly a Grappler LQ 
but the serial to parallel converter operates at 57.6K baud. This will 
replace the Grappler LQ. It was built mostly for the DeskJet+ that can 
print quickly from parallel but the serial port cannot go above 19.2K 
baud. There is suppose to be very little speed improvement from a Mac+ or 
SE but the speed is very good from a MacII or SE/30. About 1 page every 1 
to 2 minutes I believe. I gotten my hands on one to try it out yet but it 
might be worth looking at.

Sean Parent
Disclaimer: I used to work at Orange Micro so ...