mfi@beach.cis.ufl.edu (Mark Interrante) (08/08/89)
According to the current issue of Info-world: Bushnell (of Atari fame) will soon be selling a real-time video card that includes a complete 109channel tv. The TV plays (runs) under multifinder. So now I can watch Star Trek while I program :) It also allows the cutting and pasting of images into the clipboard. Looks very impressive... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Interrante Software Engineering Research Center mfi@beach.cis.ufl.edu CIS Department, University of Florida 32611 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "X is just raster-op on wheels" - Bill Joy, January 1987
t-robje@microsoft.UUCP (Rob Jellinghaus) (08/09/89)
In article <20700@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> mfi@beach.cis.ufl.edu () writes: >Bushnell (of Atari fame) will soon be selling a real-time video card >that includes a complete 109channel tv. The TV plays (runs) under >multifinder. So now I can watch Star Trek while I program :) It does look impressive, if not for the fact that the biggest window you can get out of the thing is DA-sized. (At least, that's the interpretation I put on the article with its accompanying picture.) You can't have a full- screen window showing your TV program; the best you can do is a small window, probably about 128 x 128 pixels. Too bad... just when I thought I'd be able to use my II as a TV... If anyone knows any differently, please let me know! I'd like to buy it if it were actually useful as a TV, rather than just a small hack. (I mean, who wants to really watch a 5" TV?) >Mark Interrante Software Engineering Research Center >mfi@beach.cis.ufl.edu CIS Department, University of Florida 32611 Rob Jellinghaus (robertj@CS.Yale.EDU; only at M-soft for the summer)
dplatt@coherent.com (Dave Platt) (08/09/89)
In article <7285@microsoft.UUCP> t-robje@microsoft.UUCP (Rob Jellinghaus) writes: > It does look impressive, if not for the fact that the biggest window you > can get out of the thing is DA-sized. (At least, that's the interpretation > I put on the article with its accompanying picture.) You can't have a full- > screen window showing your TV program; the best you can do is a small > window, probably about 128 x 128 pixels. Too bad... just when I thought > I'd be able to use my II as a TV... > > If anyone knows any differently, please let me know! According to MacWeek, the first version is limited to a 128-by-96-pixel viewing area. On the Mac II, it'll display in 128 shades of gray. By December, Aapps expects to ship "MicroTV Professional" which includes a daughterboard; it will support a viewing-window of up to 256-by-192, will be able to capture single screens up to 640-by-480, and will be able to receive FM radio signals ($595). "An upgrade will be available to buyers of the original board" (price not specified). A color version should be available next year. The device uses an off-the-shelf TV tuner, with custom hardware and software. One of the people involved in the project is David Ramsey, the programmer fired by Apple in June for allegedly disclosing confidential information. [Personal opinion... I hope David does very well by this new venture. Apple's decision to fire him was unfair and unjustified, in my humble opinion and based on what I've read about the case. Best of luck, David!] This looks as if it could be a _very_ interesting little device... especially once a color version is available. -- Dave Platt FIDONET: Dave Platt on 1:204/444 VOICE: (415) 493-8805 UUCP: ...!{ames,sun,uunet}!coherent!dplatt DOMAIN: dplatt@coherent.com INTERNET: coherent!dplatt@ames.arpa, ...@uunet.uu.net USNAIL: Coherent Thought Inc. 3350 West Bayshore #205 Palo Alto CA 94303
mnkonar@gorby.SRC.Honeywell.COM (Murat N. Konar) (08/09/89)
This MicroTV thing from Aapps sounds really cool. But the low price
makes me suspicious. What's the update rate for the video? Is it
just like real TV or is it like HyperCard animations? I read somewhere
about a similar card that takes in video and displays it at only 7 frames
a second vs. 30 for real TV. It was much more pricey.
____________________________________________________________________
Have a day. :^|
Murat N. Konar Honeywell Systems & Research Center, Camden, MN
mnkonar@SRC.honeywell.com (internet) {umn-cs,ems,bthpyd}!srcsip!mnkonar(UUCP)dxjsb@dcatla.UUCP (Jack S. Brindle) (08/09/89)
In message <7285@microsoft.UUCP> t-robje@microsoft.UUCP (Rob Jellinghaus) writes: >If anyone knows any differently, please let me know! I'd like to buy it >if it were actually useful as a TV, rather than just a small hack. (I mean, >who wants to really watch a 5" TV?) Those of us who are Atlanta Braves fans can't bear to watch the Braves games on anything bigger. The small size of the picture seems to make things better :-). (Especially when getting stomped 10-2 by the Dodgers) Kind of like when you watch Gator football games :-). (Especially against Miami :-) :-) :-) :-). Jack Brindle. (Sorry, we Braves / Hurricane fans are usually well behaved...)
phil@vaxphw.dec.com (Phil Hunt) (08/10/89)
In article <27414@srcsip.UUCP>, mnkonar@gorby.SRC.Honeywell.COM (Murat N. Konar) writes... }This MicroTV thing from Aapps sounds really cool. But the low price }makes me suspicious. What's the update rate for the video? Is it }just like real TV or is it like HyperCard animations? I read somewhere }about a similar card that takes in video and displays it at only 7 frames }a second vs. 30 for real TV. It was much more pricey. } } }____________________________________________________________________ }Have a day. :^| }Murat N. Konar Honeywell Systems & Research Center, Camden, MN }mnkonar@SRC.honeywell.com (internet) {umn-cs,ems,bthpyd}!srcsip!mnkonar(UUCP) Well, It is amazing how the minute you add the word 'computer' to a discussion, $400 becomes 'low price'!! How much would YOU pay for a 3" B&W television that is not a computer television. I mean, I have seen Sony Watchmans for $59 with 3" screens REALITY CHECK!!! ================================================================== Phil Hunt "Wherever you go, there you are!!!" Digital Equipment Corporation Phone: (508)486-2164 ENET: VAXPHW::PHIL USENET: phil@vaxphw.dec.com MOREUSENET: phil%vaxphw.dec@decwrl.dec.com EVENMORE: ....!decwrl!dec-vaxphw!phil
geoff@pmafire.UUCP (Geoff Allen) (08/10/89)
In article <7285@microsoft.UUCP> t-robje@microsoft.UUCP (Rob Jellinghaus) writes: >In article <20700@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> mfi@beach.cis.ufl.edu () writes: >>Bushnell (of Atari fame) will soon be selling a real-time video card >>that includes a complete 109channel tv. The TV plays (runs) under >>multifinder. So now I can watch Star Trek while I program :) > >It does look impressive, if not for the fact that the biggest window you >can get out of the thing is DA-sized. (At least, that's the interpretation >I put on the article with its accompanying picture.) You can't have a full- >screen window showing your TV program; the best you can do is a small >window, probably about 128 x 128 pixels. Too bad... just when I thought >I'd be able to use my II as a TV... > >If anyone knows any differently, please let me know! I'd like to buy it >if it were actually useful as a TV, rather than just a small hack. (I mean, >who wants to really watch a 5" TV?) Who wants to use Mac II as a TV? That would be a very expensive TV! The impression I get is that this isn't for 'really watching,' but more for having on in the background so you can keep up on the baseball game (or whatever) while you're doing something else (writing in Word, for example). (Hey!! There's a good idea. This thing might be useful for sportswriters and reviewers. They could watch and write all on their Mac screen.) -- Geoff Allen - WINCO Computer Process Engineering ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ...{uunet|bigtex}!pmafire!geoff | Disclaimer: WINCO doesn't believe in Macs, ...ucdavis!egg-id!pmafire!geoff | so of course these are my own views.
mnkonar@yaya.SRC.Honeywell.COM (Murat N. Konar) (08/11/89)
In article <4008@shlump.nac.dec.com> phil@vaxphw.dec.com (Phil Hunt) writes: >It is amazing how the minute you add the word 'computer' to a discussion, >$400 becomes 'low price'!! > >How much would YOU pay for a 3" B&W television that is not a computer >television. I mean, I have seen Sony Watchmans for $59 with 3" screens If they support copy and paste I'll take one! :^) But seriously folks, the other cards I've heard of that can do this kind of thing were in the 1 to 3 thousand dollar range. ____________________________________________________________________ Have a day. :^| Murat N. Konar Honeywell Systems & Research Center, Camden, MN mnkonar@SRC.honeywell.com (internet) {umn-cs,ems,bthpyd}!srcsip!mnkonar(UUCP)
iradx7@pawl.rpi.edu (Ira Lee) (08/11/89)
I think MicroTV is a great idea. Of course nobody is going to buy it as their main television for the family..that's not it's purpose-to substitue a TV. It would be great to be able to have the convenience of just turning on the TV at any time to see whats on....I think its great because its a nother way of gettin gpictures in to the Mac. Does anyone know if you can hook a VCR on to it and watch that? See you. iradx7@pawl.rpi.edu
planting@hobbes.cs.pittsburgh.edu (Dr. Harry Plantinga) (08/12/89)
>>How much would YOU pay for a 3" B&W television that is not a computer >>television. I mean, I have seen Sony Watchmans for $59 with 3" screens >If they support copy and paste I'll take one! :^) Wow, that's a thought. What would paste do--broadcast your picture?
thomas@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Thomas Summerall) (08/12/89)
In article <6694@rpi.edu> iradx7@pawl.rpi.edu (Ira Lee) writes: > >Does anyone know if you can hook a VCR on to it and watch that? > >See you. >iradx7@pawl.rpi.edu YES! I just got back from MacWorld last night where they were demoing it by showing "Top Gun" from a vcr on the Mac Screen. The screen is quite small, but the price is right for certain uses...ie mac training videos on screen. Thomas Summerall thomas@eleazar.dartmouth.edu
rad@mbunix.mitre.org (Richard A. Dramstad) (08/12/89)
In article <27582@srcsip.UUCP> mnkonar@src.honeywell.com (Murat N. Konar) writes: >In article <4008@shlump.nac.dec.com> phil@vaxphw.dec.com (Phil Hunt) writes: >>It is amazing how the minute you add the word 'computer' to a discussion, >>$400 becomes 'low price'!! >> >>How much would YOU pay for a 3" B&W television that is not a computer >>television. I mean, I have seen Sony Watchmans for $59 with 3" screens > >If they support copy and paste I'll take one! :^) This has been an interesting thread of discussion. I spent about twenty minutes in the Aapps booth at MacWorld on Tuesday, and then spent a while longer in their hospitality suite at the Marriott that evening. (I must say, it was a *nice* hospitality suite...) Aapps was accepting orders at the show, and there were a lot of people throwing credit cards at them ready to order, even though it's at least a couple months before they make their initial production runs. It's mostly off the shelf components, which accounts for the relatively low price (for a computer board). There's a lot of curiosity about this (soon to be) product, so I'll throw my two cents worth of observations in: Yeah, it supports cut and paste. Bring up the MicroTV application, use the mouse to tune in the channel you want, hit the space bar, and Judge Wopner's (sp.?) face shows up on your clipboard to paste into your law course home work. (Make sure your word processor can handle/print gray scale; MacPaint-like one-bit deep programs need not apply.) The MTV card (the Aapps folks had on their "I want my M(icro)TV" buttons at MacWorld) has audio out, too. It's cable ready, and will also accept input from other video sources. At the show, they were using a laser disk with Top Gun on it; in the suite they were using a Sony Walkman VCR/TV for input, along with a video camera. Doing a paste from a videotape and then doing the same from the live camera shots makes for some interesting documents. The display gets refreshed about 28 times/second (less than TV), but was viewable. The video refresh stops/slows whenever there's a Macintosh interrupt, and there are a lot of those happening on a Mac, of course, when you're doing anything other than just watching the MicroTV. (Just doing a mouse down freezes the video; other activities like disk IO probably does the same.) When I asked, the Aapps folks said you could put more than one card in (the software probably doesn't support that yet; I don't know), but each card while running takes about 30% of the Mac's CPU (I think we're talking plain Mac II here, not 68030 Macs), so there are some limitations -- I don't think you want to have a Mac with a video card and 5 MicroTVs just so you can watch five channels at once. >But seriously folks, the other cards I've heard of that can do this kind >of thing were in the 1 to 3 thousand dollar range. Some of the cards you might be referring to include the Mass Micro Color Space II/Color Space FX boards or the Orange Micro Personal Vision frame grabber. Yeah, they're around $2K, like you said. MicroTV really addresses a different market, though, I'd say. The {Mass,Orange} Micro cards are for relatively high quality color video production; I don't think 128x96 grey scale pixels falls into the same category. The MicroTV Professional is still a long way from this type of system, too. So, how would you use the MicroTV? Yeah, you could have your soap operas come on automatically (isn't there some Mac init that will launch a program at a certain time? In this case, "program" takes on a whole new meaning...), but Phil Hunt is right, you can get a lot of TV these days for ~$400 -- big screen monitor with stereo, etc., and the MicroTV is not how you'd want to watch Star Wars (Casablanca maybe, but not colorized). Some more far out possibilities were raised: Use the MicroTV with a videodisk to provide on-screen video help under program control. Or, use Timbuktu (which only sends changes, not the entire screen image), to remote your video, which might be coming from the camera sitting on top of your Mac aimed at you. Videophone, anyone? Think of the possibilities for user support! I think the MicroTV is one of those technologies that seem like a toy at first, but one that will really grow on people, once they figure out how to use it. They didn't show the SE version or the Professional version at MacWorld, as far as I know. To avoid the obvious question, Aapps' phone # is (800)446-6393, or in CA it's (415) 961-4033. They're in Mountain View. >Murat N. Konar Honeywell Systems & Research Center, Camden, MN >mnkonar@SRC.honeywell.com (internet) {umn-cs,ems,bthpyd}!srcsip!mnkonar(UUCP) Dick Dramstad rad@mitre.org Disclaimer: No endorsement, but lots of interest. Your mileage may vary.
stores@unix.SRI.COM (Matt Mora) (08/12/89)
In article <14987@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> thomas@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Thomas Summerall) writes: > >YES! I just got back from MacWorld last night where they were demoing it by >showing "Top Gun" from a vcr on the Mac Screen. The screen is quite small, >but the price is right for certain uses...ie mac training videos on screen. > What about sound? does it come through the mac speaker? Is it in stereo? Can the picture be pasted into the clipboard? Can the sound be recorded? Just would like to know. -- ___________________________________________________________ Matthew Mora SRI International stores@unix.sri.com ___________________________________________________________
joej@oakhill.UUCP (Joe Jelemensky) (08/12/89)
In article <27414@srcsip.UUCP> mnkonar@gorby.UUCP (Murat N. Konar) writes: >This MicroTV thing from Aapps sounds really cool. But the low price >makes me suspicious. What's the update rate for the video? Is it >just like real TV or is it like HyperCard animations? I read somewhere Take a mildly close (doesn't even have to be REAL CLOSE) look at the picture in MacWeek. The ballplayers legs look like stair cases. I just put my Mac on one corner of the desk and my trusty Panasonic 5" on the other.
mdc@cambridge.apple.com (Marty Connor) (08/14/89)
In article thomas@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Thomas Summerall) writes: >YES! I just got back from MacWorld last night where they were demoing it by >showing "Top Gun" from a vcr on the Mac Screen. The screen is quite small, >but the price is right for certain uses... Yeah, but the real question is, can I use ThE LaSSo tOOl when watching *my* favorite videos? Marty Connor, Marty's Computer Workshop, "Specializing in Macintosh Training" 126 Inman Street, Cambridge, MA 02139; (617) 491-6935 mdc@entity.com, or ...{harvard|uunet}!mit-eddie!spt!mdc -- Marty Connor, Marty's Computer Workshop, "Specializing in Macintosh Training" 126 Inman Street, Cambridge, MA 02139; (617) 491-6935 mdc@entity.com, or ...{harvard|uunet}!mit-eddie!spt!mdc
paul@taniwha.UUCP (Paul Campbell) (08/15/89)
In article <20700@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU> mfi@beach.cis.ufl.edu () writes: >Bushnell (of Atari fame) will soon be selling a real-time video card >that includes a complete 109channel tv. The TV plays (runs) under I looked at it at MacWorld, when it's running things really seem to slow way down .... we were trying to figure out how they can sell a $395 NuBus Master without lots of VLSI (and hence time to market etc) .... we finally figured it out .... it's probably not a NuBus master and every so often it interrupts the Mac II and the Mac wakes up and copies the TV data from a RAM on the board to the screen - hence the cheap cost and the slow keyboard performance (they probably copy it at interrupt time!) it also explains the low resolution which wont be likely to get much better (without DMA) ... a neat hack but I think i'll pass Paul -- Paul Campbell UUCP: ..!mtxinu!taniwha!paul AppleLink: D3213 "Free Market": n. (colloq.) a primitive fertility goddess worshipped by an obscure cult in the late 20th C. It's chief priest 'Dow Jones' was eventually lynched by an enraged populace during an economic downturn (early 21st C).
truesdel@ics.uci.edu (Scott Truesdell) (08/16/89)
phil@vaxphw.dec.com (Phil Hunt) writes: >It is amazing how the minute you add the word 'computer' to a discussion, >$400 becomes 'low price'!! >How much would YOU pay for a 3" B&W television that is not a computer >television. I mean, I have seen Sony Watchmans for $59 with 3" screens >REALITY CHECK!!! You can grab frames off the Watchmans? Tell us how, please! Actually, Phil, you're right; for the functionality it is a bit pricey. Still, it is a GREAT hack and anyway, you should have seen the vendors of $4000 frame grabbers pulling their hair out in frustration at MacWorld Expo! Apple, I'm told, expressed much more than just a passing curiosity at the technology. It's not great yet (Aw heck, yes it is... if you want/need it) but the implications, especially regarding cost vs. production scale, are very far reaching. --scott -- Scott Truesdell
truesdel@ics.uci.edu (Scott Truesdell) (08/16/89)
iradx7@pawl.rpi.edu (Ira Lee) writes: >Does anyone know if you can hook a VCR on to it and watch that? Yes, it does that. As well as cut and paste to other applications. --scott -- Scott Truesdell
phil@vaxphw.dec.com (Phil Hunt) (08/16/89)
In article <402@taniwha.UUCP>, paul@taniwha.UUCP (Paul Campbell) writes... }I looked at it at MacWorld, when it's running things really seem to slow }way down .... we were trying to figure out how they can sell a $395 }NuBus Master without lots of VLSI (and hence time to market etc) .... }we finally figured it out .... it's probably not a NuBus master and } every so often it interrupts the Mac II and the Mac wakes up and copies }the TV data from a RAM on the board to the screen - hence the cheap cost and }the slow keyboard performance (they probably copy it at interrupt time!) }it also explains the low resolution which wont be likely to get much }better (without DMA) ... a neat hack but I think i'll pass } } Paul } Exactly right! At Macworld, they said the board takes 30+% of the CPU to run!!! Yikes! Too much for me to watch tv on my mac! ================================================================== Phil Hunt "Wherever you go, there you are!!!" Digital Equipment Corporation Phone: (508)486-2164 ENET: VAXPHW::PHIL USENET: phil@vaxphw.enet.dec.com MOREUSENET: phil%vaxphw.dec@decwrl.enet.dec.com EVENMORE: ....!decwrl!dec-vaxphw!phil
cmacfarl@bbn.com (Craig MacFarlane) (08/18/89)
In article ... (Marty Connor) writes: >In article thomas@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Thomas Summerall) writes: >YES! I just got back from MacWorld last night where they were demoing it by >showing "Top Gun" from a vcr on the Mac Screen. The screen is quite small, >but the price is right for certain uses... Gee, you could even hook up an apple II to the TV window. But seriously folks... How about getting the close caption text also. It would be neat to get transcripts of the news and such (I know it isn't exact word for word). Is there anything like this available? RS232 would be ok... I wonder. If it could handle the info at the bottom of the screen you could download/broadcast new sofware or news reports. Craig Macfarlane BBN Advanced Computers Inc. Boston Road Club Hotline (617) 873-2711 (617) 484 0313