bnfb@Apple.COM (Bjorn Freeman-Benson) (08/22/89)
In article <1446@draken.nada.kth.se> d88-jwa@nada.kth.se (Jon W{tte) writes: >>I've just noticed a strange looking "icon" in the upper right corner >If you would have taken two minutes to Read The F*cking Manual (RTFM) Ah, so according to Jon, Macs are now like IBMs: you must read the <rude word> manual to learn how to use it. Come on people, this is the Mac, we don't read manuals. We shouldn't have to read manuals. And if even if this fellow had read the manual, it would have taken more than two minutes to find that little detail about Easy Access. "Macintosh" implies "No manuals!" Bjorn N. Freeman-Benson
mjkobb@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Michael J Kobb) (08/22/89)
In article <34192@apple.Apple.COM> bnfb@Apple.COM (Bjorn Freeman-Benson) writes: >In article <1446@draken.nada.kth.se> d88-jwa@nada.kth.se (Jon W{tte) writes: >>>I've just noticed a strange looking "icon" in the upper right corner > >>If you would have taken two minutes to Read The F*cking Manual (RTFM) > >Ah, so according to Jon, Macs are now like IBMs: you must read the ><rude word> manual to learn how to use it. Come on people, this is >the Mac, we don't read manuals. We shouldn't have to read manuals. >And if even if this fellow had read the manual, it would have taken >more than two minutes to find that little detail about Easy Access. Okay, I don't usually reply to messages along threads like this, but I feel the need this time. First, I hope that Jon meant his comment in a friendly way, as I infer from the caps in the "rude expression." As a community, Mac users are supposed to be supportive of one another. Since the Mac is designed to be used by non- programmer types, many of the features do get explained by friends, etc. I can certainly understand the sentiment behind RTFM, since I am frequently asked questions that seem trivial, but they're not trivial to the people who are asking them. Furthermore, Easy Access isn't what I would call a transparent function. In other words, its use is hardly apparent at first glance. This would seem especially true if it just suddenly started appearing on machines in a lab, which I think was the situation here. Easy Access must be invoked by an obscure key sequence that is virtually impossible to stumble upon, so its not something the average user would happen upon. That's why it isn't transparent: it is a special-purpose application that the average user wasn't supposed to have to deal with, unless he chose to. Also, the average user reading the update docs for System 6 would probably see the Easy Access section, and seeing no use for that function, skip the description, and consequently be unfamiliar with its operation. Okay, that's it for my $0.02. --Mike Disclaimer: I think that disclaimers are an incredibly sad statement about our society. Nonetheless, nothing that I say can or should be construed as having been said by anyone. Ever.
werner@utastro.UUCP (Werner Uhrig) (08/22/89)
I appreciate that Mike took the time to "break a lance" in support of the
person asking the question and for the "friendly" sentiments he champions
for interaction on the net: quite honestly, I thought of several other
things as possible reasons for "that little icon", and did not think of
Easy Access either.... and am not ashamed to admitting to it.
I do not believe in the RTFM-sentiment, because I am certain that it had no
entry in the index for "that little icon in the top right corner of the
menubar" and I do not believe in having to scan half a dozen of manuals
or docs which could be the source of information for something that there
is no telling what causes it.
The real problem is that the user-interface lacks a HELP-key or a MENU-entry
(with some settable command-key-equivalence) to allow the user to select
something on the DeskTop and ask: "What's That?! ... I consider this to
be the most glaring absence in Apple's attempt at user-friendliness.
imagine, a standard programmer interface to connect helpful information
to most anything that appears on the screen !! what a blessing for us
overworked and underpaid (and understaffed) brotherhood of support-volunteers
for the Macintosh; rather than RTFM one could say: "do you know how one
can ask for HELP about anything that appears on the screen?"
Wouldn't that be wonderful ?!!!
--
-----------> PREFERED RETURN-ADDRESS FOLLOWS <--------------
(ARPA) werner@rascal.ics.utexas.edu (Internet: 128.83.144.1)
(UUCP) ..!utastro!werner or ..!uunet!rascal.ics.utexas.edu!wernerdavew@hp-ptp.HP.COM (Dave_Waller) (08/23/89)
Here here! Go easy on the guy! In addition, He probably _DID_ read the manual, but if he isn't a disabled person, he skipped the stuff about _Easy Access_. Give him a break! Just 'cause everyone who uses a Mac isn't a nerd with nothing better to do than read parts of a manual that don't seem to apply to him/her doesn't mena they're stupid. After all, what's c.s.m for anyway, if questions like this can't be asked?!?? Dave Waller Hewlett-Packard Co. Workstation Group Pacific Technology Park 1266 Kifer Rd. Sunnyvale, CA (408) 746-5324 [ucbvax!]hplabs!hpdstma!dave | dave@hpdstma.ptp.hp.com +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ | Standard disclaimer: | "I refuse to put anything in quotes | | The opinions expressed above are | in this space" | | solely my own, and in no way reflect| | | those of my employer. | | +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
hoofb@psueea.uucp (Bruce Hoof) (08/23/89)
In article <34192@apple.Apple.COM> bnfb@Apple.COM (Bjorn Freeman-Benson) writes: >In article <1446@draken.nada.kth.se> d88-jwa@nada.kth.se (Jon W{tte) writes: >>>I've just noticed a strange looking "icon" in the upper right corner > >>If you would have taken two minutes to Read The F*cking Manual (RTFM) > >Ah, so according to Jon, Macs are now like IBMs: you must read the ><rude word> manual to learn how to use it. Come on people, this is >the Mac, we don't read manuals. We shouldn't have to read manuals. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I would not agree to this at all!. EVERYONE should read the manuals that come with the hardware, even if it is a Microwave, Car, New TV, an IBM, or (YES) a Macintosh. All kinds of hardware have something strange about it and is usually documented, if properly done. I have no sympathy to those who have not read their manuals and come to me asking this or that when the answer to their questions was right there, IN THE MANUAL. While reading IBM manuals is a pain in the $#@%! it is not very hard to read the manuals that come with a Macintosh, and does not take much time (they are not beyond most people). Practice safe computing. Bruce
anson@spray.CalComp.COM (Ed Anson) (08/23/89)
In article <34192@apple.Apple.COM> bnfb@Apple.COM (Bjorn Freeman-Benson) writes: > Come on people, this is >the Mac, we don't read manuals. We shouldn't have to read manuals. >And if even if this fellow had read the manual, it would have taken >more than two minutes to find that little detail about Easy Access. As an aside, I might point out that the presence of Easy Access as a default violates some of the most fundamental elements of Apple's User Interface Guidelines. In particular, it causes unexpected (surprising) behavior, and tends to lead to frustration. These problems are fundamental. I think I should also point out that the originator of this thread is not the first to have this problem. Nor will he be the last. I know it confused me a bit when it first came out. When I found out what was happening, my thoughts were something like this: Neat idea! I can see how some people will really appreciate having this! But why isn't it in the utilities folder so only the people who need it -- and are aware of it -- can put it into their System folders to make use of it? Indeed, why not? -- ===================================================================== Ed Anson, Calcomp Display Products Division, Hudson NH 03051 (603) 885-8712, anson@elrond.CalComp.COM
sho@pur-phy (Sho Kuwamoto) (08/24/89)
In article <2696@spray.CalComp.COM> anson@spray.UUCP (Ed Anson) writes: >when I found out what was happening[with easy access], my >thoughts were something like this: Neat idea! I can see how some people will >really appreciate having this! But why isn't it in the utilities folder so >only the people who need it -- and are aware of it -- can put it into their >System folders to make use of it? perhaps because of the following... easy access makes it easier to get at the modifier keys, which incidentally just broke on the move from l.a. to here, but i digress..., as well as freeing the user from having to use the mouse, if motor coordination is a problem. so how is the user going to drag the cdev into the system folder... granted, someone else is going to have to install the system, plug in the wires, etc., in the first place, but this means that this installer guy does not have to know how to install easy access. the user can read the manual, hit shift five times, and go with it. i mean, half the apple salesmen i've seen couldn't install a cdev if their life depended on it.... -sho -- sho@newton.physics.purdue.edu <<-- suffering from hardware handicap.
kent@sunfs3.camex.uucp (Kent Borg) (08/24/89)
In article <2696@spray.CalComp.COM> anson@spray.UUCP (Ed Anson) writes: > >As an aside, I might point out that the presence of Easy Access as a default >violates some of the most fundamental elements of Apple's User Interface >Guidelines. In particular, it causes unexpected (surprising) behavior, and >tends to lead to frustration. These problems are fundamental. > >I think I should also point out that the originator of this thread is not >the first to have this problem. Nor will he be the last. I know it confused >me a bit when it first came out. When I found out what was happening, my >thoughts were something like this: Neat idea! I can see how some people will >really appreciate having this! But why isn't it in the utilities folder so >only the people who need it -- and are aware of it -- can put it into their >System folders to make use of it? One of the beauties of the Macintosh is that I can use one where ever I find one. I can get new and different programs to do things for me--without looking at the manual. Easy Access is great if it can help some handicapped people use Macintoshes. Should those handicapped people also be allowed to walk up to a random Macintosh and use it? I think so, but it is only possible for some of them if Easy Access is installed already. By having Easy Access on the System Tools disk rather than on one of the utility disks, the odds are improved that it will be there. Should Easy Access be more obvious in its use? Sure, and the "What is"-help I mentioned yesterday should make it so--assuming it really does make it into 7.0. Also I would like to mention the mouse-keys feature of easy access. By pressing cmd-shift-clear, the key pad turns into a cursor pad for moving the mouse. 8 is up, 4 is left, 3 is down and right, etc. 5 is the mouse button, 0 locks the mouse button, and the period releases a locked down button. Clear again turns off mouse-keys. I use it all the time when in drawing programs and I want precise positioning. I like Easy Access even though I am not its target audience. Kent Borg kent@lloyd.uucp or ...!husc6!lloyd!kent
hallett@shoreland.uucp (Jeff Hallett x4-6328) (08/25/89)
In article <2696@spray.CalComp.COM> anson@spray.UUCP (Ed Anson) writes: >when I found out what was happening[with easy access], my >thoughts were something like this: Neat idea! I can see how some people will >really appreciate having this! But why isn't it in the utilities folder so >only the people who need it -- and are aware of it -- can put it into their >System folders to make use of it? I always thought that Easy Access should have a cdev associated with it so I can turn it off in the Control Panel if I want to. I like to use it sometimes and I'm not physically challenged (mentally maybe...), but when I play games like Continuum which uses the SHIFT key to shoot with and COMMAND to turn , well, you can imagine what happens. At least if there were a cdev, someone might get a hint by looking in the control panel. -- Jeffrey A. Hallett, PET Software Engineering GE Medical Systems, W641, PO Box 414 Milwaukee, WI 53201 (414) 548-5173 : EMAIL - hallett@positron.gemed.ge.com
anson@spray.CalComp.COM (Ed Anson) (08/25/89)
In article <915@mrsvr.UUCP> hallett@shoreland.UUCP (Jeff Hallett x4-6328) writes: >In article <2696@spray.CalComp.COM> anson@spray.UUCP (Ed Anson) writes: >> But why isn't it in the utilities folder so >>only the people who need it -- and are aware of it -- can put it into their >>System folders to make use of it? > >I always thought that Easy Access should have a cdev associated with >it so I can turn it off in the Control Panel if I want to. Since I posted my remark about Easy Access being the default, several people have pointed out (publicly and privately) why making it default is a good idea. I have to concede that the reasons are largely valid. But my objection stands: The current situation frequently results in behavior which isn't very user friendly. Jeff's suggestion is the best I've seen so far. I would like to build on it. If Easy Access were a cdev, it could default to inactive. I expect that anyone who can use Easy Access usefully, could also access the Control Panel to turn it on when needed. And as a cdev, it could potentially be made more flexible, by permitting configuration to each individual's needs. I can see some potential for something called Easier Access. BTW: If anyone wishes to continue this discussion with me, please send mail. I am losing my net access, but mail will be forwarded for a time. -- ===================================================================== Ed Anson, Calcomp Display Products Division, Hudson NH 03051 (603) 885-8712, anson@elrond.CalComp.COM