david.dmytryshyn@f428.n250.z1.fidonet.org (david dmytryshyn) (08/17/89)
Here's something that's really annoyed quite a few of us. 5 of 6 months ago, we purchased Finale for musical DTP, thinking, well it is a little expensive, but it seems to be the only tool capable of doing what it does. So after wading through the brain dead interface that they had decided on, we seem to be using it somewhat efficiently. Then comes the shocker... Coda drops the price of Finale SUBSTANTIALLY. We had purchased it for around $1200CDN, the price now is $750CDN. CODA being the gracious (extreme sarcasm) company that they are, has offered us the next upgrade, which they say will cost $150, works out to about $190CDN, for free. Big deal. In the letter they sent they buttered us up, thanking us for being one of the earliest purchasers of the product, and because of that they're going to offer us the next upgrade (big $150 value) for free. Nowhere does it mention that they've dropped the price. This is an insult to my intelligence. Perhaps they thought I'd never notice. Are these people for real? So much for the user comes first... One letter to CODA coming up. Can hardly wait for the response... David.. --- FD 2.00 * Origin: Future Vision: Progressive & Innovative (1:250/428)
truesdel@ics.uci.edu (Scott Truesdell) (08/19/89)
david.dmytryshyn@f428.n250.z1.fidonet.org (david dmytryshyn) writes: >5 of 6 months ago, we purchased Finale for musical DTP, thinking, well it is a >little expensive, but it seems to be the only tool capable of doing what it >does. So after wading through the brain dead interface that they had decided >on, we seem to be using it somewhat efficiently. Then comes the shocker... >Coda drops the price of Finale SUBSTANTIALLY. We had purchased it for around >$1200CDN, the price now is $750CDN. I don't get it; what's so shocking? Thoughout the history of computing, users have constantly paid a premium for being at the forefront of technology. As the costs for development start to become assimilated by increased sales, prices drop. You didn't expect this? You state yourself that you are using it effectively... >CODA being the gracious (extreme >sarcasm) company that they are, has offered us the next upgrade, which they say >will cost $150, works out to about $190CDN, for free. Big deal. It IS a big deal. Take them up on it. What do you want, a $450CDN refund AND a free upgrade? Apple just dropped $300 from the prices of their SEs. I think they should mail me a check for $300 and upgrade me to an SE/30 for free! >In the letter >they sent they buttered us up, thanking us for being one of the earliest >purchasers of the product, and because of that they're going to offer us the >next upgrade (big $150 value) for free. Nowhere does it mention that they've >dropped the price. This is an insult to my intelligence. Perhaps they thought >I'd never notice. >Are these people for real? So much for the user comes first... One letter to >CODA coming up. Can hardly wait for the response... Oh lighten up, David! Do you really think you were treated unfairly? You didn't seem to think so when you bought the product, which you are using effectively. This action by Coda is completely in line with the way this entire industry operates. I think the free upgrade is a good deal. -- Scott Truesdell
david.dmytryshyn@f428.n250.z1.fidonet.org (david dmytryshyn) (08/21/89)
> I don't get it; what's so shocking? Thoughout the history of computing, > users have constantly paid a premium for being at the forefront of > technology. As the costs for development start to become assimilated by > increased sales, prices drop. You didn't expect this? You state yourself By that much? Almost 50%? No, I didn't expect this. For some reason, I'd expect this with hardware, but I'm hard pressed to remember the last piece of software which I purchased and the price went down after purchasing it, in fact, most have gone up in price. I've not done an industry wide survey here, just personal experience. But, if you can honestly tell me that after purchasing a piece of software for $1300 you envisioned it's price dropping some $550 I would laugh right in your face. (honestly, I would) But then again maybe your psychic powers are stronger than mine... (I'm sending a telepathic message to you now, are you reading it? :) ) > effectively. This action by Coda is completely in line with the way this > entire industry operates. I think the free upgrade is a good deal. And just because everyone else acts this way, it's somehow better? There's no logic there. If we all felt that way, the consumer would be taken advantage of left and right. Just because these are high-tech computer stuff doesn't mean we can't have consumer activism. And, just because the software was over $1000 doesn't make it any different than a $300 piece of software. Of course, if I take your line and become a passivist and just roll over I'm sure the world would be just such a great place. <hint of sarcasm> Passivism has it's place, but me thinks not here. The free upgrade is an attempt at appeasement, but I'm not rolling over. Wenger (CODA) is a big music publishing company, and I'm going to challenge them. Some companies will give the first upgrade free anyways. (not just bug fixes) One clarification, I said I was going to write a "nasty" letter, that's not my real intention, as it will have lost considerable effectiveness, the letter will be considerably more civil. Don't quite know why I used nasty, perhaps that was more a reflection of my mood. David.. --- * Origin: Toronto, Ontario, Canada. (1:250/428)
mls@cbnewsm.ATT.COM (michael.l.siemon) (08/21/89)
In article <21277@paris.ics.uci.edu>, truesdel@ics.uci.edu (Scott Truesdell) writes: > Oh lighten up, David! Do you really think you were treated unfairly? You > didn't seem to think so when you bought the product, which you are using > effectively. This action by Coda is completely in line with the way this > entire industry operates. I think the free upgrade is a good deal. Anyone who has agonized over the Finale interface will sympathize with the original poster's comments. It has the most godawful turkey of an interface I have ever tried to cope with. It is totatlly unclear whether the "upgrade" is going to be any better (apparently it has added some undo capability -- the original version couldn't undo *anything* interesting -- and reorganized some menus). About a month before the upgrade offer they also stopped giving free telephone support (which was one of the things they used to justify the high price). Certainly Coda has not been much worse than some other parts of the industry; but they have also now put themselves in a position where former customers see little but a ripoff. That's their choice, but another choice -- of cooperation and winning "hearts and minds" -- would have been possible. -- Michael L. Siemon In philosophy the winner of the race cucard!dasys1!mls is the one who can run most slowly. att!sfbat!mls Or: the one who gets there last. standard disclaimer -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
truesdel@ics.uci.edu (Scott Truesdell) (08/26/89)
david.dmytryshyn@f428.n250.z1.fidonet.org (david dmytryshyn) writes: > > users have constantly paid a premium for being at the forefront of ----------------------------------------- > > technology. As the costs for development start to become assimilated by > > increased sales, prices drop. >By that much? Almost 50%? No, I didn't expect this. For some reason, I'd --- <-- yes, quite a jump. >...But, if you can honestly tell me that after >purchasing a piece of software for $1300 you envisioned it's price dropping >some $550 I would laugh right in your face. This happens frequently in special purpose, niche-market software packages. Applications to solve some esoteric need prove to be generally useful to a broader market than originally envisioned resulting in repositioning the product in the marketplace. (how's THAT for marketing mumbo-jumbo? But really, David, that's how marketing types think!) Please don't ask me to wade through years of MacWEEKs, but many special purpose packages do this. I've seen AI packages drop even more dramatically. This happens mostly when a company envisions their product as "special purpose" but are (pleasantly) surprised to find the product brought into the mainstream. I have an interest in music scoring software, but strictly as a hobby, not professionally. I wouldn't justify Finale's original price for myself. I honestly had a gut feeling that Finale's price would drop twice: 1st, after the initial users who absolutely NEEDED Finale's functionality were satisfied, dealers would start discounting from the [high] list price. And 2nd, I felt it was possible that Coda would discover that the market was broader for their product than was originally anticipated by their marketing dept and that a reassessment of the mark-up vs. volume ratio would result in a price cut. So laugh. When companies enter a market that is new for them, they often go through some adjustment period finding their nitch. This isn't only true for high tech companies. >And just because everyone else acts this way, it's somehow better? There's no >logic there. It's not better; it's just the way things are. <shrug> >If we all felt that way, the consumer would be taken advantage >of left and right. We are! We are all guinea pigs for all the marketing departments of the world's fantasies. They spend billions trying to figure out how to control and manipulate us. >Just because these are high-tech computer stuff doesn't >mean we can't have consumer activism. Correct. But you weren't defrauded or ripped off, so what's to be active about? I don't get it. Do you want Coda to raise the price back up to the original price or do you want them to give you a rebate, then charge full price for the upgrade? >And, just because the software was over >$1000 doesn't make it any different than a $300 piece of software. Of course not. Why are you bringing this into the thread? >if I take your line and become a passivist and just roll over I'm sure the >world would be just such a great place. <hint of sarcasm> Passivism has it's >place, but me thinks not here. The free upgrade is an attempt at >appeasement, I don't think appeasement, I think that they were just saying "Thank you for contributing to our success. This one's on us." Other companies may do better or worse than this (Apple definitely does worse). > but I'm not rolling over. No one's asking you to. You already did so voluntarily when you originally bought the package. You want them to unroll you now? >Wenger (CODA) is a big music >publishing company, and I'm going to challenge them. Some companies will >give the first upgrade free anyways. (not just bug fixes) Some companies WILL give the 1st upgrade free. Company's choice. Again, what are you going to challenge them for? On what grounds. You can kick yourself for not waiting, but you can't kick Coda for offering a product on the open market that you voluntarily chose to purchase. >... the letter >will be considerably more civil. Always more effective! >Don't quite know why I used nasty, perhaps >that was more a reflection of my mood. You feel you were wronged and felt a burst of emotion. I don't agree that you were wronged, but I grant the validity of the adrenaline (SP?) rush accompanied by the desire to change the current situation. Nonetheless, don't expect too much from Coda. I can sympathize with your desire to save money, but you weren't wronged. Pure conjecture on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if Finale was developed for Wenger's own in-house use only and that when the users and programmers began to add features and polish the project they felt proud of their accomplishment. I can imagine several meetings where Coda decides to market the product and determine market size, marketing costs, desired returns, etc. They throw the product out there, and start getting feedback from end-users, dealers, their own marketing bozos. They respond to shifts in their perception of what the market would be like. If they had been dead on with their original guesses, things would have progressed differently, no doubt. The fact that they changed marketing strategies in mid-stream is not in and of itself a good or a bad thing. The fact that we, the consumers, are made aware of their change in marketing strategy is not the coolest way to go on their part. But if they figured the increased profit will offset the temporary marketplace confusion, they make their choice and run with it. Coda (Wenger) is a company. They want to maximize their profits. They will do what they can towards that end. Anyway, sorry for the length and I hope you feel better... -- Scott Truesdell