hallett@shoreland.uucp (Jeff Hallett x4-6328) (08/25/89)
In article <3986@csd4.csd.uwm.edu> hammen@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Robert J. Hammen) writes: >In article <11238@burdvax.PRC.Unisys.COM> dave@PRC.Unisys.COM (David Lee Matuszek) writes: >> >>I recently bought S.U.M. 1.1 from Symantec. >> > >Or get the SUM II upgrade (hopefully for free, in your case). BTW, there is a >new version of DiskExpress coming out, DiskExpress II (geez, where are all of >these Roman numerals coming from?). The way their ads describe it, it sounds >like an INIT ("always optimizing your drive when your Mac is inactive" or >somesuch. I called Alsoft today: the upgrade is $28, the list is $89.95, but if >you buy it now for $69.95 list (MacConnection is cheaper), you'll get the >upgrade for free... Aside: Yes, David, getting the SUM II update will cure most of your gripes. Bob's comment on the SUM and DiskExpress updates, reminds me of a constant thorn in my side - Software Update policies. There are several items that really bug me. Yeah, I guess this is whining; companies are in the business to make money, unfortunately, at ALL costs, but I'd still be curious to see other people's opinions. 1. If I have MacProgram v1.0 which I bought 3 years ago, and somone gets version 1.0 from MacConnection two days before some update is released, I pay and he doesn't. As nice as it is when you are on the receiving end, it is really stupid. Either the update is worth paying for, or it isn't. He is getting exactly what I am, but is paying less for it. I can understand that if I have 1.0 and he has 1.12, then I might have to pay more for an update to version 2.0 (because I am probably going to get not only the update, but any fixes/added features he already received in 1.12). That's fair. I understand the psychological motivations behind the "bought-withing-last-X-days = free-update" concept, but it still seems kinda dumb. 2. At the MacWorld Expo, at the System 7.0 panel discussion, discussion was raised to the effect that probably many programs' print routines will bomb when Apple releases the new Print Manager. Guy Kawasaki commented that companies will undoubtably release compatibility updates for "under $20". BullSh*t!! Those puppies should be free, or, at most $5 to pay for shipping and the cost of the disk. Companies should not charge for bug fixes or system compatibility updates. However, then you get the easy way out: when a bug fix is due, companies will delay shipment until they can throw in a few new features. This allows them to charge $50 for the update, rather than having to foot the bill for the big fix alone. How about some responsibility and loyalty to the customer base, for cryin' out loud. Updates, in general, are too expensive for what we get. I can illustrate my points in what I consider to be the sh*ttiest update announcement ever in Mac history: Excel 2.2 Get this. The biggy is that Excel 2.2 cracks the 1 Mb barrier. Ooooh! Pinch me! Can it really be true? As an aside they throw in ~65 new functions (pretty minor ones, from what I've been told - 99% of users probably won't even use them), the ability to use multiple fonts and colors in rows and columns and variable row height (plus a few other weird things) and to boot, it runs about 20% SLOWER on a Plus or SE than 1.5 did. All this can be yours for $100!!!!!!!!! This is ludicrous. Basically, they release an update that allows the program to run the way it should have at release date (except the colors - they weren't really around then) and they want an extra $100 for it. As an added slap in the face, the retail price remains at $395. Which means that those you who bought Excel from the beginning, and religiously upgraded get screwed for an extra $100 while the people who go out and buy it today get it all for the same price you originally paid. Talk about crapping on the customer base - what about the people who bought the thing early and helped make Excel what it is today? As for me, I think I'm going to ditch the Excel update and find another spreadsheet. It's a great spreadsheet, but this really gets my cookies in an uproar. Best update policy I've dealt with: Williams & Macias I had myDiskLabeller without color. When Systme 5.0 came out,and I got an ImageWriter II, I found a bug that prevented me from printing in color from my Plus. I called them an the next day, I had the newest version of the program, not only with the bug fixed, but with a couple of new features. All for shipping of $2.98. Small companies still respect the customer base. Oh well, enough whining. Please don't attempt to change my mind - you can't. However, I'm curious to hear other people's upgrading woes/kudos. -- Jeffrey A. Hallett, PET Software Engineering GE Medical Systems, W641, PO Box 414 Milwaukee, WI 53201 (414) 548-5173 : EMAIL - hallett@positron.gemed.ge.com
mpip@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Robert Annechiarico) (08/26/89)
In article <925@mrsvr.UUCP> hallett@shoreland.UUCP (Jeff Hallett x4-6328) writes: > >Bob's comment on the SUM and DiskExpress updates, reminds me of a >constant thorn in my side - Software Update policies. There are >several items that really bug me. Yeah, I guess this is whining; >companies are in the business to make money, unfortunately, at ALL >costs, but I'd still be curious to see other people's opinions. > . . . >As for me, I think I'm going to ditch the Excel update and find >another spreadsheet. It's a great spreadsheet, but this really gets >my cookies in an uproar. > >Best update policy I've dealt with: Williams & Macias > Opinion time? Ok. I'd like a better upgrade policy everywhere, but I don't expect it. It's nice to have any at all; when was the last time you received an upgrade offer on a textbook? (I've got two editions of Samuelson's Economics, and they're both out of date. I have no idea what number it's up to by now). I think you've found the best approach: what's the competition for Excel, and what is THEIR upgrade policy? (I know - Wingz, and they don't *have* a policy, yet. Hmmm.) Thanks for the information on Williams & Macias. I'll look at their products. Eric Carleen University of Rochester Medical Center (716)-275-5391 Bitnet: heartedc@uorhbv Internet: mpip@uhura.cc.rochester.edu "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away". - Tom Waits
roy@phri.UUCP (Roy Smith) (08/29/89)
In <925@mrsvr.UUCP> hallett@shoreland.UUCP (Jeff Hallett x4-6328)
rants (perhaps with some justification) about software upgrade policies.
Here's something that's been bugging me for a while. We've used IDD's
MacDraft for a long time and like it. It has a few quirks, and some
serious drawbacks, but for the money it was a pretty reasonable program
when it came out. The only serious feature it was lacking was the ability
to do rotated text (other than N*90 degress), which we use a lot around
here. When we got a big-screen mac, we discovered it had some bugs which
made it crash on a big screen, but IDD sent us a bugfix upgrade for some
reasonable amount of money ($25, or something like that).
Then, Dreams came out and IDD wanted something like $200 for it if
you were a registered MacDraft owner. Note that they didn't call it an
upgrade, but rather the $200 deal was a discount on the new program.
Granted, it is changed a lot, but it's not really a new program. The file
structure is changed (I suspect a lot of the limitations of MacDraft were
due to poorly designed file structure) and there are a bunch of new
features (many of them quite nice), and some bug fixes, but it sure feels
more like MacDraft-II than a new program, complete with a new (higher)
pricetag. I think list is something like $400 and you can get it for about
$260 from software discounters. Anyway, we bought the program, if only to
get the rotated text feature, but it still gnaws at me that we got ripped
off.
Now, before anybody flames me, let me point out that I have said
many times in the past that if you know what the program does, and you know
how much it cost, and you agree to pay that price for it, and it does whey
they advertize it to do, you havn't really gotten ripped off. You could
have decided it wasn't worth what they were asking for it and declined to
buy it. But it *still* bothers me. :-)
--
Roy Smith, Public Health Research Institute
455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016
{att,philabs,cmcl2,rutgers,hombre}!phri!roy -or- roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu
"The connector is the network"bj@gvgspd.GVG.TEK.COM (Brion Johnson) (08/29/89)
Updates are a hassel and cost alot in time as well as money. If I am a typical user, then the average mac user has around 7 major applications, (those applications that get used *a lot* - several times a week) 20 minor applications (once a month or so), and a smattering of other things such as DA's, INIT's etc. Keeping up current with all of these programs involves dealing with as many different companies - say 35 to 40 of them, each with a different policy, method, etc. Having the update in hand is only part of the struggle. The update must then be installed, the old version archived and eventually removed, and the manuals updated. Then the new version must be learned (which sometimes is a major task - I still haven't finished getting thru More II for example) and carefully checked for compatibility with inits, the system, printers, etc. And then, on occasion, the old data files don't recognise the new version and launch it (MacWrite II for example - shame, Claris!) so I have to go launch it manually and look for the data file for it once I get in it. And, every once in a while the new version will mangle data created with a prior version or will totally blow up when launched. Finally, I get to the registration cards. Most companies put cards with their updates, which I dutifully (eventually) fill out and send in. A few companies recognise the fact that I had to prove to them that I owned the original, and so they don't bother me with registering again. And some companies send a followup questionaire to me after a week or two, long enough that I have usually forgotten the update session by the time that the questionaire arrives (send it WITH the update, please, if you must). To sum up, it is a hassel to keep up with all the diverse updates from a bunch of companies that each think I have their product as my only application. I appreciate most those companies that make it easy on me. This tome was NOT a flame, just a primordial scream of frustration... Brion
jaynes@sequent.UUCP (Steve Jaynes) (08/30/89)
Every possible combination of upgrade policy has prevaded computer-user land since Babage needed new gears for his calculating machine. However I had the unsupressable urge to comment: Books are a faily poor comparison, in that very few book owners have to exchange data with fellow book owners, and expect their computations or activities to continue to function correctly. Business and professional computer users do. I might add, and do they must, irrespective of the make or size of the computer. I would like all the publishers out there to listen up, for us professionals who are now totally addicted to these keystoke mongers, to provide reliable update subscription services for products which are dynamic. If significant enhancements are planned, then market the product that way, and charge what the service is worth, and then deliver the value which has been promised. Example MS WORD Ver X.?. If the product is static, then say so, and offer the same deal. Example: Reflex Plus. Value is determined by Functionality, manual changes, etc. Additionally, as expensive as major programs are, (over $150.00 to $750.00 for one user) a year of free updates in not an unreasonable thing to expect. Just send in your trusty software registration card and Voir la! Presently off of soapbox and returning to serious Mac'ing.
mha@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Mark H. Anbinder) (08/30/89)
In article <925@mrsvr.UUCP> hallett@shoreland.UUCP (Jeff Hallett x4-6328) writes: > >Bob's comment on the SUM and DiskExpress updates, reminds me of a >constant thorn in my side - Software Update policies. There are >several items that really bug me. Yeah, I guess this is whining; >companies are in the business to make money, unfortunately, at ALL >costs, but I'd still be curious to see other people's opinions. > ... One recent example of a good upgrade policy is with Acius and their 4th Dimension software. Acius just sent out notices to ALL of their 4D registered owners, offering them two choices for upgrading to version 2.0. They can either get a FREE upgrade of the software, with an upgrade manual that describes the new features and changes, OR they can pay $80 for a completely new set of manuals along with the software. That means that people who want to take their chances get a free upgrade, including the bug fixes, changes, and all the new features, but people who want a set of the new documentation can pay a very reasonable sum and get all of the new manuals. When you think about how much documentation the first version came with, this really does look like a good deal. Not everyone has an upgrade policy that'll make everyone happy (end users and shareholders both have to be considered!), but it's good to know that some companies, not just small ones, have the end users in mind from the start. -- Mark H. Anbinder ************************** mha@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu BAKA Industries ** (cornell!)biar!memory!mha 200 Pleasant Grove Rd. H: (607) 257-7587 ******** Ithaca, NY 14850 W: (607) 257-2070 ******* "It's not safe out here." Q