rcbaab@eutrc3.urc.tue.nl (Annard Brouwer) (09/08/89)
Hello NetWorld! I had some questions regarding MacNosy: 1) What is the amount of memory needed to run the program comfortably, 2) What is the newest version (mine is from '86 and I can't find any info on updates and how much it costs to update)? I have also encountered some other problems, Apple released a few programs a long while ago which make a file of resources to be used with RMaker (one can experimentally make some windows and dialogboxes and the description of the resources is written to a file) but I always have trouble in compiling them directly, I have to manually add the names of the resources and then RMaker does want to compile them. Is it my fault or do I have to get new versions of the programs needed to make a resource-description file? Thanks very much in advance for any info! Greetings, Annard -- | Annard Brouwer Bitnet (preferred) : rcgbbaab@heitue51 | Dreef 74 UUCP : rcbaab@eutrc3.urc.tue.nl | NL-5504 LD Veldhoven packet-radio : pe1koo@pi8mid | The Netherlands PSI (receive only) : psi%14901760604::rcgbbaab
rampil@cca.ucsf.edu (Ira Rampil) (09/18/89)
In article <902@eutrc3.urc.tue.nl> rcbaab@eutrc3.urc.tue.nl (Annard Brouwer) writes: >Hello NetWorld! > >I had some questions regarding MacNosy: >1) What is the amount of memory needed to run the program comfortably, >2) What is the newest version (mine is from '86 and I can't find any info >on updates and how much it costs to update)? Greetings, Nosy runs very comfortably in 1 Meg and probably does fine in 512k for small target programs. I have sucessfully Nosy'd a program containing 1.2MByte of CODE resource with Nosy running in a 1M partition. Jasik is continually working on his products and there are minor revisions/extensions monthly, major releases every 3-4 months. The current version is substantially rewritten since 1986 and now uses a standard Mac interface and comes with a legible manual. I believe that Nosy is now sold only as part of the 'Debugger' package which is distributed through APDA and Bonsu so most Mail-Order retailers can get it (make sure you get at least version 2.95 btw). IMHO Nosy/Debugger are extremely powerful, useful tools. By comparison Macsbug, TMON and even SADE are unspeakably primitive, and even Think's nice debuggers are missing too many feature (like natural format trap arguments and discipline). On the other hand, the product does not get much press because (again IMHO) 1) Jasik can be very irritating to deal with, and 2) Most popular press reviewers and their readership don't understand the product or have any use for it, it is at best a "gee whiz." Nonetheless, it has saved me many hours of bug tracing in my work, and has made (as a side effect) new customers for Jasik out of many of the companies I beta test for because with almost no investment of my time, I can give them specific bug reports almost down to the line number of their code without my acess to their source. I will now descend from the soapbox. I know Steve Jasik but have no relationship, other than as a satisfied customer with him. Ira Rampil Department of Anesthesia UCSF
harry@ngc.UUCP (Harry Saal) (09/19/89)
The later and greater versions of MacNosy & Friends may be wonderful, but I am sorely disappointed that I can't get a version of what I once paid for and loved (e.g. MacNosy only) that works on my Mac II. It broke when I upgraded from a Mac 512K, and now my only upgrade path is something like $200 for a Mac II version along with other new features. It's disappointing to be left without the use of good-old MacNosy due to Apple and Jasik's policies.
gft_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu (09/19/89)
In article <478@ngc.UUCP>, harry@ngc.UUCP (Harry Saal) writes... > >The later and greater versions of MacNosy & Friends may be wonderful, >but I am sorely disappointed that I can't get a version of what I once >paid for and loved (e.g. MacNosy only) that works on my Mac II. It broke >when I upgraded from a Mac 512K, and now my only upgrade path is something >like $200 for a Mac II version along with other new features. It's >disappointing to be left without the use of good-old MacNosy due to >Apple and Jasik's policies. ^^^^^ I know people blame Apple for a lot, but you're blaming them because a program which accesses the Mac at such a low level broke with the Mac II????? C'mon, give Apple a break. But I will agree with you on your main point: MacNosy is _way_ too expensive for Mac II owners. I'd love to check out MacNosy, but there's no way I can spend $350 for it (yep, it's 350 bucks for Mac II owners). I know at least one other person here who wants to buy it, but also can't afford that price. Robert ------ ra_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu ----------------------------- generic disclaimer: all my opinions are mine
doner@henri.ucsb.edu (John Doner) (09/19/89)
In article <5452@tank.uchicago.edu> gft_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu writes: > >But I will agree with you on your main point: MacNosy is _way_ too expensive >for Mac II owners. I'd love to check out MacNosy, but there's no way I can >spend $350 for it (yep, it's 350 bucks for Mac II owners). I know at least one Yes, it's expensive, but not more than lots of other programs. And consider the size of the market for this highly technical product. Jasik is a one-man band, and has been relying on this for his income for the last five years. Give him a break. John Doner doner@henri.ucsb.edu
gft_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu (09/20/89)
> >Yes, it's expensive, but not more than lots of other programs. And >consider the size of the market for this highly technical product. >Jasik is a one-man band, and has been relying on this for his income >for the last five years. Give him a break. Well, $350 seems like a lot to me, but you're right, there are other programs out there that cost that much (although usually one can get them below list through places like MacConnection). It's not so much the price by itself that bothers me: it's the huge price differential between the versions for the Plus/SE and the Mac II. The Plus/SE version is under $200, if I recall, and the II version is nearly twice as much. Why is that? I assume because Jasik figures that if Mac II owners can pay extra for their machine, they can pay extra for their software. Lots of companies do that, true, but it doesn't make it a great practice. In any case, since the Mac II (not X, cx, or ci) is not exactly on the cutting edge these days, and can thus be bought (perhaps 2nd hand) for relatively less money, it no longer follows that the only people who own them are wealthy, and can thus afford more expensive software. Hey, Jasik should charge whatever the market will bear. But a Mac II price closer to the Plus/SE price might get him a larger market among Mac II owners. I know if MacNosy were priced lower, I'd buy it. Robert ------ ra_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu ----------------------------- generic disclaimer: all my opinions are mine
rampil@cca.ucsf.edu (Ira Rampil) (09/23/89)
{{{ Complaints that Nosy now costs too much}}
I too would like software for less than I frequently wind
up paying for it. On the other hand, Jasik Designs is not
very diversified and they make their living selling
professional programming tools to professional programmers.
When I bought Nosy/Debugger I thought $350 was not too
expensive if it saved me a few days of tearing out what
little hair I have left. I was not dissappointed.
BTW, a little investigation would reveal that Nosy/Debug
has a street or mailorder price of about 250 or 275.00
N.B. I am not a professional programmer now, thought I
may have been one in the past. I just pass gas and hack on
the side.
Chererio
Ira Rampil
Dept of Anesthesiarampil@cca.ucsf.edu (Ira Rampil) (09/23/89)
{{ Someone complaints about the price differential between
the SE and the Mac II version of Nosy}}
Leesee now an SE has 128k ROMS and the II family has 256k.
What could be the difference? Ah, all those funny new
managers like Color stuff, Slot Mgr, Time Mgr. Ah, new
multimode processor chip, too! Sorry to be faciteous, but
actually, there was a lot of work for Jasik and Harry Starr
to convert the Debugger to run on the II. I think the SE
version is a dead issue and all development work is on the
II version. I hope this explains (from an outsider's
view) why there is a cost differential.
Adios,
Ira Rampil
Dept Anesthesiasiegel@endor.harvard.edu (Rich Siegel) (09/23/89)
In article <2419@ucsfcca.ucsf.edu> rampil@cca.ucsf.edu.UUCP (Ira Rampil) writes: >{{ Someone complaints about the price differential between > the SE and the Mac II version of Nosy}} > >Leesee now an SE has 128k ROMS and the II family has 256k. >What could be the difference? Ah, all those funny new >managers like Color stuff, Slot Mgr, Time Mgr. Ah, new >multimode processor chip, too! Sorry to be faciteous, but I hate to say this, but: you're wrong. The SE has 256K ROMs. Also, the SE and the II have a lot of new managers in common, with the exception of handlers for the NuBus, Color QuickDraw, and the MMU. The 68020 does not complicate matters all that much; you just have to remember that the '020's exception stack frame is two bytes smaller, and that the 68020 does have some tricky new addressing modes (which most Mac HLL compilers currently don't use). You may have a point, but you should at least make a token attempt to get your facts straight. R. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rich Siegel Staff Software Developer Symantec Corporation, Language Products Group Internet: siegel@endor.harvard.edu UUCP: ..harvard!endor!siegel "There is no personal problem which cannot be solved by sufficient application of high explosives." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~