ianf@nada.kth.se (Ian Feldman) (09/22/89)
These questions are specifically addressed to the people from Apple, though I'd also like to hear others' opinion on the same subject. Background: Judging from the pictures of the MacPortable on the cover of BYTE, October issue, its keyboard layout differs from that of a standard ADB one - as well as from the recommended ISO standard. The second command key to the right of the space bar seems to be gone, possibly replaced by a second option-key (couldn't read the legend properly) that, alas, has been shrunk in size from 1.5 to 1-key-width module - both of them in fact. The current arrow-key layout of non-extended keyboards with horizontal placement for the left and right-direction keys, vertical for the up/ down-movement ones has been replaced by a single line of four arrow keys in a row, below the (now larger) rightmost shift key. While these changes from IMHO the present well-functioning ADB key layout might (*only*) take some time to get used to for someone that is migrating portable-wards I fail to see the justification for moving the <key between leftmost shift and Z> out to a position between the (now the only one) command key and the space bar. Besides being a violation of the recommended ISO keyboard layout standard that makes it harder to use the MacPortable in multi-hardware environments it simply "gets in the way" of touch-accessing (ie, no peeking) there residing option and command keys. The <ctrl> key seems also to have been moved from the present (on my Swedish SE keyboard) position in the lower left corner up to a level above the shift key, switching positions with the caps-lock key. Though the latter's relative importance (based on frequency of usage) in no way matches its normal, prime position nor the physical size - usually larger than the shift key - its replacement is another needlessly reintroduced step backwards as far as I am concerned. Besides that, the <ctrl> key's ISO-defined, usual placement at the very physically-felt boundary of the keyboard rectangle makes it more easily accessible than from the new position above the left shift key. Question: Is the keyboard on the BYTE cover just an early, pre-production, model or is it a conscious try by Apple to redefine the present, by-and- large ISO-compliant ADB keyboard layout? -- ---- ------ ianf@nada.kth.se/ @sekth.bitnet/ uunet!nada.kth.se!ianf ---- --
folta@tove.umd.edu (Wayne Folta) (09/22/89)
" ... both of them in fact. The current arrow-key layout of non-extended
" keyboards with horizontal placement for the left and right-direction
" keys, vertical for the up/ down-movement ones has been replaced by a
" single line of four arrow keys in a row, below the (now larger)
" rightmost shift key.
...
"
" The <ctrl> key seems also to have been moved from the present (on my
" Swedish SE keyboard) position in the lower left corner up to a level
" above the shift key, switching positions with the caps-lock key.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
" Though the latter's relative importance (based on frequency of usage)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
" in no way matches its normal, prime position nor the physical size -
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
" usually larger than the shift key - its replacement is another
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
" needlessly reintroduced step backwards as far as I am concerned.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
" Besides that, the <ctrl> key's ISO-defined, usual placement at the
" very physically-felt boundary of the keyboard rectangle makes it more
" easily accessible than from the new position above the left shift key.
"
I was wondering where IBM got the weird keyboard layout for their PS/2s!
I guess that they are ISO-compliant.
If you admit that the Caps Lock key is way oversized and much too prominent,
while the Control Key is much more used, then why is a sane Control Key
placement/size a step backwards?
I believe that all of the keyboards that I have used in the last five
years have the Control above the shift. Placing the Control so far from
the home keys is a real pain for me. Especially since I don't tend to
touch type editor control sequences.
Anyhow, the keyboard layout you describe sounds exactly like the one I have
on my SE. It is evidently the US version of Apple's Standard Keyboard.
Wayne Folta (folta@tove.umd.edu 128.8.128.42)chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (09/22/89)
> Judging from the pictures of the MacPortable on the cover of BYTE, > October issue, its keyboard layout differs from that of a standard ADB > one - as well as from the recommended ISO standard. The keyboard in the portable is the same one in the standard ADB keyboard (american version. Probably different from what's seen in Europe). It hasn't been internationalized yet. -- Chuq Von Rospach <+> Editor,OtherRealms <+> Member SFWA/ASFA chuq@apple.com <+> CI$: 73317,635 <+> [This is myself speaking. I am not Appl Segmentation Fault. Core dumped.
alms@cambridge.apple.com (Andrew L. M. Shalit) (09/22/89)
In article <1738@draken.nada.kth.se> ianf@nada.kth.se (Ian Feldman) writes:
Question:
Is the keyboard on the BYTE cover just an early, pre-production, model
or is it a conscious try by Apple to redefine the present, by-and-
large ISO-compliant ADB keyboard layout?
I believe there will be ISO as well as non-ISO keyboards available.
This info is based on the fact that the new version of the sysenvirons
trap supports entries for several kinds of keyboards, some of which
have ISO in the name.c8s-an@franny.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Lau) (09/23/89)
In article <19748@mimsy.UUCP> folta@tove.umd.edu.UUCP (Wayne Folta) writes: >If you admit that the Caps Lock key is way oversized and much too prominent, >while the Control Key is much more used, then why is a sane Control Key >placement/size a step backwards? Wait a minute. I know that keyboard layout is a subjective area of discussion, but in normal usage the Control key is hardly ever used. It's only in certain kinds of telecommunications where it gets any significant amount of usage, or if you've programmed it with Quickeys or something. Also, for any keyboard worth its salt (so to speak), the caps lock key is above the shift key. It's that way on all the good typewriters, it should be that way on my keyboard. It's the reason I shelled out the bucks for the extended keyboard. >I believe that all of the keyboards that I have used in the last five >years have the Control above the shift. Placing the Control so far from >the home keys is a real pain for me. Especially since I don't tend to >touch type editor control sequences. Editor control sequences? Ah-hah! More people in the Mac world use MacWrite than EMACS, you know. >Anyhow, the keyboard layout you describe sounds exactly like the one I have >on my SE. It is evidently the US version of Apple's Standard Keyboard. >Wayne Folta (folta@tove.umd.edu 128.8.128.42) --- Alex UUCP: {att,backbones}!ucbvax!franny!c8s-an INTERNET: c8s-an%franny.berkeley.edu@ucbvax.berkeley.edu FIDONET: Alex.Lau@bmug.fidonet.org (1:161/444)
rickf@Apple.COM (Rick Fleischman) (09/23/89)
In article <19748@mimsy.UUCP> folta@tove.umd.edu.UUCP (Wayne Folta) writes: > >Anyhow, the keyboard layout you describe sounds exactly like the one I have >on my SE. It is evidently the US version of Apple's Standard Keyboard. > > >Wayne Folta (folta@tove.umd.edu 128.8.128.42) Actually, the keyboard on the Macintosh Portable is identical to the Apple Standard Keyboard with a few exceptions: 1) Does not come standard with a numeric keypad. (One is available optionally) 2) Does not come with the Mac II Power-on key. 3) In order to make room for the "enter" key in the main keyboard, the return key was shortened and the backslash key was moved from next to the space bar to above the return key (to the right of the "right bracket") 4) The enter key was placed in the spot vacated by the backslash key next to the spacebar. Otherwise the keyboard is identical in key layout to the Apple Standard Keyboard. Rick Fleischman Developer Channels/APDA Apple Computer, Inc. rickf@goofy.apple.com AppleLink: FLEISCHMAN@applelink.apple.com
cleeland@rex.cs.tulane.edu (Chris Cleeland) (09/25/89)
In article <4323@internal.Apple.COM> rickf@Apple.COM (Rick Fleischman) writes: >Actually, the keyboard on the Macintosh Portable is identical to the Apple >Standard Keyboard with a few exceptions: > >[ 1 and 2 delted to please inews] > >3) In order to make room for the "enter" key in the main keyboard, the >return key was shortened and the backslash key was moved from next to >the space bar to above the return key (to the right of the "right bracket") > >4) The enter key was placed in the spot vacated by the backslash key next >to the spacebar. > >Otherwise the keyboard is identical in key layout to the Apple Standard >Keyboard. > I don't know for sure, but it sounds pretty damned close to the keyboard I'm currently typing on -- a venerable ORIGINAL mac keyboard. The tiny one used on from 128 --> 512Ke. This is closer to "standard" terminal keyboard layouts than any of the other Apple keyboards, save the ADB Extended, which bears very close semblance to both the AT and the VT-220 keyboards. Just my $.02... Hit 'n' or '^N' right now -- the rest is 'inews' fodder. I H A T E I N E W S -- Thanks Chris Cleeland, Tulane University ADDRESS: cleeland@rex.tulane.cs.edu Disclaimer: "I'm a student -- I can't afford to buy one!"