kuo@tramp.Colorado.EDU (Andy Y.A. Kuo) (09/17/89)
I apologize if this has been discussed before on the net. I read this group regularly, but I might have missed it as I didn't thought anything about it. I heard from my friend that one can use a Sun workstation as a Mac server. My questions are: 1) How to get the Mac to recognize that there is a server on the net? 2) Would there be some specific software that I would need? 3) How can one put files to the Sun(sorry about my lack of knowledge in this area) and retrieve in a user's point of view? Will it be kind of like AppleShare? 4) Would there be any "external software" that you can also put on the Sun just like running a mail server or print spooler with AppleShare? Any help will be greately appreciated! --Andy Internet:kuo@tramp.colorado.edu or kuo%tramp@vaxf.colorado.edu Bitnet: kuo@tramp.colorado.bitnet or kuo%tramp@vaxf.colorado.bitnet
mr2t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Tod Rose) (09/19/89)
Sun, as you might know, makes the popular TOPS filesharing software for the Mac; believe it or not, they also offer versions for PCs, Suns and (I believe) DEC VAXen. If a Mac on your net has an Ethernet card and the new Apple Internet Router software, then you can 1) purchase TOPS for everyone (including the Sun), 2) hook up your Ethernet Mac to the Sun, 3) hook up your LocalTalk LAN to the Ethernet (router) Mac, 4) configure the TOPS stations and the router, and 5) stand back in awe as everyone transparently shares files. At least, that's the theory. It's actually somewhat more complicated (or it was; I don't know what's up with TOPS v. 2.2 for the Sun, which was s'posed to fix some little problems) but that's the basic idea. Directories and files on the Sun, when "published," show up on the Macs as folders and files. The operation is transparent; the Sun can go right on UNIXing, NeWSing, Xing, or Open-Looking to its silicon heart's content. There may be other solutions (I understand that Novell has a few neat tricks), but so far as I know, TOPS is the only company offering plug-n-play Sun fileserver software for Mac networks. -mike "fileservers are for wimps -- gimme a REMO 600 meg I can attach to my Mac Plus and I'll show you a fileserver, bucko :->" rose mr2t+@andrew.cmu.edu
hallett@positron.uucp (Jeff Hallett x5163 ) (09/19/89)
In article <8Z5JA=200WB9Q7YJcM@andrew.cmu.edu> mr2t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Tod Rose) writes: > >Sun, as you might know, makes the popular TOPS filesharing software for the >Mac; believe it or not, they also offer versions for PCs, Suns and (I believe) >DEC VAXen. > [...] >There may be other solutions (I understand that Novell has a few neat tricks), >but so far as I know, TOPS is the only company offering plug-n-play Sun >fileserver software for Mac networks. This is partly true. I don't think they make a VAX version. Also, it is really far from plug-n-play. We installed it under BSD 3.5 on a Sun file server. The installation instructions were wrong, the installation makefiles were wrong. The only way we could get it to install correctly was to make use of the Sun field guy that visited our site once a week. It requires modifying the kernel. Yeech. In my humble opinion, your best bet is to get a Gatorbox from Cayman Systems. It will sit there and make ANY NFS Ethernet host an AppleShare server. You will not require additional software for the Macs since AppleShare client software is part of the System. You will not require any software for your hosts. The combined GatorBox and AppleShare<->NFS software is ~$4900. Considering that TOPS for the Sun is around $1500 and then you start paying ~$100 per Mac, it doesn't take long to make up the cost. Further IPT has come out with a TOPS-like INIT that performs distributed AppleShare (for the technically minded, this product is basically an AFP-compliant TOPS rather than a TFP-compliant one). Any Macintosh can become an AppleShare server without being dedicated (much like any TOPS user can publish). Therefore, if you ever need to go to a more distributed system, the door is open. (BTW, the IPT software is MUCH less per node than TOPS.) Good stuff. -- Jeffrey A. Hallett, PET Software Engineering GE Medical Systems, W641, PO Box 414 Milwaukee, WI 53201 (414) 548-5163 : EMAIL - hallett@gemed.ge.com
vita@daredevil.crd.ge.com (Mark F. Vita) (09/21/89)
In article <8Z5JA=200WB9Q7YJcM@andrew.cmu.edu> mr2t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Tod Rose) writes: > >Sun, as you might know, makes the popular TOPS filesharing software for the >Mac; believe it or not, they also offer versions for PCs, Suns and (I believe) >DEC VAXen. >... >There may be other solutions (I understand that Novell has a few neat tricks), >but so far as I know, TOPS is the only company offering plug-n-play Sun >fileserver software for Mac networks. Actually, there are at least three other possibilities besides TOPS: CAP (Columbia Appletalk Package), IPT's uShare, and the Cayman GatorBox. CAP and uShare perform essentially the same task: i.e., providing an AFP-compliant file server on a UNIX box (CAP is public domain software; uShare is a commercial product). With either of these installed on a Sun, UNIX file systems can be "published" as AppleShare volumes, and accessed by any Mac with standard AppleShare client software (provided on Apple's system software disks) installed. Note that to use either of these products (or TOPS) requires an AppleTalk-to-Ethernet bridge such as the Kinetics Fastpath or Cayman GatorBox (see discussion below). According to MacWEEK, Shiva will also be coming out with such a bridge sometime soon. Note that installation of any these products (CAP, uShare, TOPS) on a Sun server is far from "plug-and-play"; all require a significant amount of grunt work to get up and running. The Cayman GatorBox adopts a different, and in my opinion, more elegant solution to the file serving problem than the aforementioned products. TOPS, CAP and uShare all use a similar approach in that they implement the file server as a process on the host UNIX machine. This requires you to mess around to some degree with the guts of the UNIX server (in the case of TOPS, kernel modification is required). Also, you need to worry about the impact of OS upgrades (for example, TOPS broke when Sun went to OS 4.0). And of course, you need a separate, licensed (except for CAP) copy of the software for each host that you want to be able to serve files. The GatorBox, on the other hand, in addition to serving as a AppleTalk to Ethernet bridge, can do AFP-to-NFS conversion entirely on the gateway. With one of these installed, any NFS server on the Ethernet can appear as an AppleShare server to any Mac with the standard AppleShare client software. Since all the intelligence for this is contained in the GatorBox, no NFS machine or Mac needs to be modified with any special software. Cayman recently unbundled its former GatorBox product into two separate products: the basic GatorBox ($2795), which serves as an AppleTalk-to-Ethernet bridge; and GatorShare, additional-cost ($1995) software which runs on the GatorBox and does AFP-NFS conversion. The basic GatorBox now has the same list price as a Kinetics Fastpath, and will perform the same functions: i.e., let you run TOPS, NCSA Telnet, CAP, whatever. But the GatorBox has the advantage that you can later upgrade with GatorShare software to provide AppleShare file service. Note also that the GatorBox has slightly better hardware than the Kinetics box -- faster processor, more memory -- though with the current rev of the software, the throughput of the two devices is about the same (Cayman claims that they still aren't maxing out the hardware in their box). Note that IPT has a lot of other goodies in their product line besides uShare, including e-mail, terminal emulation, print spooling, and "virtual disk" software, which allows a "diskless" Mac to use a UNIX file server as a boot drive. They also have a product called the "Personal Server Network", which is "distributed" AppleShare server software for a Mac (i.e., it lets any Mac function as a non-dedicated server, like TOPS, but is fully AFP-compliant, unlike TOPS). PSN is also cheaper; it lists for $145 for a two-node license. The nice thing about CAP, IPT and the GatorBox is that they all provide AFP-compliant solutions; TOPS, on the other hand, is based on the proprietary TFP (TOPS Filing Protocol). One big advantage of the AFP-compliant solutions is that the client software is free (just install the AppleShare workstation stuff from the standard system disks). By contrast, TOPS requires that you buy a separate, serialized copy of $249 software for every Mac on the network, even ones which just want to be clients (the serialization is enforced by each node periodically broadcasting serial-number packets over the network). AFP-compliance also means that any multiuser database applications you have are likely to work correctly, in contrast to TOPS, which has been plagued by data corruption problems in large multiuser applications, and which is incompatible with some popular applications such as Foxbase (though according to TOPS this situation is about to change Real Soon Now). ---- Mark Vita vita@crd.ge.com General Electric CRD ..!uunet!crd.ge.com!vita Schenectady, NY
vita@daredevil.crd.ge.com (Mark F. Vita) (09/21/89)
I probably should have included names/addresses/prices, etc., for the items discussed. Here they are: CAP --- Available via anonymous FTP from cunixc.columbia.edu (128.59.40.130). Price: free IPT (uShare, PSN) ----------------- Information Presentation Technologies, Inc. 23801 Calabasas Road, Suite 2008 Calabasas, CA 91302 (818) 347-7791 Prices: uShare (single node license): $1195 PSN (two-node license): $145 GatorBox -------- Cayman Systems, Inc. University Park at MIT 26 Landsdowne Street Cambridge, MA 02139 (617) 494-1999 Prices: GatorBox: $2795 GatorShare: $1995 ---- Mark Vita vita@crd.ge.com General Electric CRD ..!uunet!crd.ge.com!vita Schenectady, NY
planting@hobbes.cs.pittsburgh.edu (Dr. Harry Plantinga) (09/22/89)
In article <2438@crdgw1.crd.ge.com> desdemona!vita@steinmetz.UUCP (Mark F. Vita) writes: >CAP and uShare perform essentially the same task: i.e., providing an >AFP-compliant file server on a UNIX box (CAP is public domain >software; uShare is a commercial product).... Note >that to use either of these products (or TOPS) requires an >AppleTalk-to-Ethernet bridge such as the Kinetics Fastpath or Cayman >GatorBox (see discussion below). The problem always used to be that you need somehow to encapsulate appletalk packets in TCP/IP packets in order for the Sun to see them. That's why all of these techniques need[ed] an AppleTalk-to-Ethernet bridge and didn't work with an ethernet card. Can I use MacTCP for that instead? That is, can I get an ethernet card and MacTCP, and use CAP? -Harry Plantinga planting@vax.cs.pitt.edu
news@calgary.UUCP (Network News Manager) (09/23/89)
From: sharp@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Maurice Sharp) Path: cpsc!sharp There is a company called IPT (Information Presentation Technologies) that markets a whole range of UnixBox to Mac communication. This includes using the box as a file server, printer, and even Mac Mail. I refer you to MacWorld or MacUser. Apparently it works quite well on a Sun. Not so hot on other boxes. It comes in an ehternet version, which requires an etherneted Mac. Or you can get a card to bung in the back of a sun that will connect it to the Appletalk network. This product has an advantage over KIP/CAP, it works. At least as far as the Gatorbox is concerned. The Gatorbox will not give you what you want, I know because we tried one. If you want to invest in a Kinetics box, you may get what you want. maurice Maurice Sharp University of Calgary Computer Science Department 2500 University Drive N.W. sharp@ksi.cpsc.UCalgary.CA Calgary, Alberta, T2N 1N4 ...!alberta!calgary!sharp
drew@cup.portal.com (Andrew E Wade) (09/26/89)
Just to add my two cents: I'm a very satisfed Cayman Gatorbox user. It was easy to install, easy to use, transparently allows file sharing between nfs network (diverse machines) and macs (appleshare interface). Just drag files around, use laserwriter from unix, backup from macs to unix servers, telnet login anywhere, nice email (extra-cost sw), and even niceties like handling CR to LF conversions transparently and trapping filenames that unix doesn't do well with (like embedded "/"). drew@objy.com
jca@pnet01.cts.com (John C. Archambeau) (09/27/89)
I'd like to know from the person that is NOT satisfied with Cayman's GatorBox to tell us (especially me) why. One, out of personal curiousity. Two, I'm in charge of tech support for an Apple and Sun MicroSystems VAR; it's my job to know why. I've had one person e-mail me that it's a great thing, another post that it's a great thing, and I have one saying that a Kinetics FastPath would be better. Well, in the mailings I've got from Cayman a GatorBox can emulate a FastPath if desired or if you have a TOPS network. No offense to the TOPS Division of Sun MicroSystems since it is a good piece of software, but TOPS is slow. I hate slow things. Since the GatorBox is a piece of hardware and this this marvelous AFP to NFS conversion I would think that it would perform a lot better than having everything running on TOPS. I've already made arrangements to have our demo unit from Cayman sent to us via UPS Brown for a 45 day trial period and I'll give you all my opinion on it after I've done some testing myself. Of course, the real test is having the box myself for me and everybody in our office to play with. Should be fun having everybody logging in on the Suns from a Mac Plus. :) /*--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * Flames: /dev/null (on my Minix partition) *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * ARPA : crash!pnet01!jca@nosc.mil * INET : jca@pnet01.cts.com * UUCP : {nosc ucsd hplabs!hd-sdd}!crash!pnet01!jca *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * Note : My opinions are that...mine. My boss doesn't pay me enough to * speak in the best interests of the company (yet). *--------------------------------------------------------------------------*/