rowen@blake.acs.washington.edu (Russell Owen) (09/25/89)
I have a folder I simply cannot delete. When I try, it says "The trash couldn't be emptied (a file was busy or a folder was not empty)" I have tried the following several times each: - rebuild the desktop (no help) - reorganizing the disk with DiskExpress (no help) - reorganizing the disk with SilverLining (no help) - Apple's DiskFirstAid (no problems found) - Booting off of other systems, including 5.3 and a bare (no inits) 6.0.3 I have a Mac Plus with 2.5Mb RAM and am using System 6.0.3 The folder originally contained a corrupted copy of QuickKeys (another cute problem--that QuickKeys was working just fine, but it had somehow grown to 4.5Mb, from its proper, fully-loaded-with-my-key-definitions size of 170Mb). The trouble started when I threw the folder+file out--the file was correctly deleted, but the folder got into this wierd state. I can simply initialize the disk and rebuild, but would rather not just for one stupid folder, at least until I've heard from the net. Any suggestions? Thanks -- Russell Owen internet: owen@phast.phys.washington bitnet: owen@uwaphast
c8s-an@franny.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Lau) (09/25/89)
In article <3762@blake.acs.washington.edu> rowen@blake.UUCP (Russell Owen) writes: >I have a folder I simply cannot delete. When I try, it says >"The trash couldn't be emptied (a file was busy or a folder was not empty)" >I have tried the following several times each: >- rebuild the desktop (no help) >- reorganizing the disk with DiskExpress (no help) >- reorganizing the disk with SilverLining (no help) >- Apple's DiskFirstAid (no problems found) >- Booting off of other systems, including 5.3 and a bare (no inits) 6.0.3 > >I have a Mac Plus with 2.5Mb RAM and am using System 6.0.3 > >The folder originally contained a corrupted copy of QuickKeys >(another cute problem--that QuickKeys was working just fine, >but it had somehow grown to 4.5Mb, from its proper, >fully-loaded-with-my-key-definitions size of 170Mb). >The trouble started when I threw the folder+file out--the file >was correctly deleted, but the folder got into this wierd state. > >I can simply initialize the disk and rebuild, but would rather not >just for one stupid folder, at least until I've heard from the net. >Any suggestions? > >Thanks >-- Russell Owen >internet: owen@phast.phys.washington >bitnet: owen@uwaphast Well, you've done just about everything right. Congratulations. I've been hearing a lot of these problems lately. It's related to a bug in the Finder that, at times, leaves a resource open in a folder (don't ask me how or why) and leaves it undeletable. At times, files in the folder disappear, although they're still really there. The files are recoverable by SUM, but it's still quite distressing. I think it has to do with a corrupted disk directory, but I don't know for sure and I don't know how to find out for sure. Sometimes rebooting helps. Sometimes the passage of time (and multiple rebootings) helps. Sometimes rebuilding the desktop helps. Sometimes defragmentation, although dangerous, helps. Sometimes throwing the folder in the trash, and then restarting while it's in the trash helps. Sometimes humming "The Star- Spangled Banner" while standing on your head helps, but not often. Sometimes turning it invisible with DiskTop and forgetting about it helps, but it solves the problem about as well as humming the National Anthem. The only way to get it off completely and with confidence is by backing up, reformatting and restoring. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but hey - try humming the National Anthem anyway. It's kind of fun. --- Alex UUCP: {att,backbones}!ucbvax!franny!c8s-an INTERNET: c8s-an%franny.berkeley.edu@ucbvax.berkeley.edu FIDONET: Alex.Lau@bmug.fidonet.org (1:161/444)
t-jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Tony Jacobs) (09/26/89)
I don't know if the following is your problem or not but whenever I can't delete a folder it is because some other applications or DA has a directory open to that folder or one inside that folder. The fix: simply call up something which brings up the Standard File Dialog and switch to a different folder. Then you can delete the folder! Simple as that. Works for me. Tony Jacobs * Center for Engineering Design * U of U * t-jacobs@ced.utah.edu
macak@lakesys.UUCP (James Macak) (09/26/89)
In article <17630@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> c8s-an@franny.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Alex Lau) writes: >In article <3762@blake.acs.washington.edu> rowen@blake.UUCP (Russell Owen) writes: >>I have a folder I simply cannot delete. When I try, it says >>"The trash couldn't be emptied (a file was busy or a folder was not empty)" >>I have tried the following several times each: (Several lines deleted.) >>I can simply initialize the disk and rebuild, but would rather not >>just for one stupid folder, at least until I've heard from the net. >>Any suggestions? >> >>Thanks >>-- Russell Owen >>internet: owen@phast.phys.washington >>bitnet: owen@uwaphast > >Well, you've done just about everything right. Congratulations. > >I've been hearing a lot of these problems lately. It's related to >a bug in the Finder that, at times, leaves a resource open in a >folder (don't ask me how or why) and leaves it undeletable. At >times, files in the folder disappear, although they're still >really there. The files are recoverable by SUM, but it's still >quite distressing. I think it has to do with a corrupted disk >directory, but I don't know for sure and I don't know how to >find out for sure. (Several lines deleted) > >The only way to get it off completely and with confidence is >by backing up, reformatting and restoring. Sorry to be the >bearer of bad news, but hey - try humming the National Anthem >anyway. It's kind of fun. > >--- Alex >UUCP: {att,backbones}!ucbvax!franny!c8s-an >INTERNET: c8s-an%franny.berkeley.edu@ucbvax.berkeley.edu >FIDONET: Alex.Lau@bmug.fidonet.org (1:161/444) I ran across some messages on FidoNet's EchoMac some time ago regarding this problem, and saved them in case it should ever happen to me. Well it did, and after some moments of perspiration, I was able to delete the folder by using the info in the messages. So, I'll repost them here... Be careful, though. I imagine you could really ruin your disk directory or whatever if you goof when doing this, so best to be sure your disk is backed up before trying the following. -------------------- From: Chuck Shotton To: Andy Shaw 31-Jan-89 08:31am Subject: Re: RE:help! Undeletable Fold I posted a message about getting rid of undeletable folders a few days ago, but I'll repeat the main points. The undeletable folders usually pop up when running Multifinder, but there is a definite bug somewhere in the bowels of Finder itself that causes folders to end up with a file count that is non-zero (positive or negative) when the folder is really empty. The easy way out of this problem is to take a tool like FEdit or MacSnoop and set the count in the directory to zero. If you're not familiar with the directory structure, play around with a floppy first by making a folder or two, putting a known number of files in each one, and then searching the disk for these values. The easiest way to find the correct area on the disk is to search for the folder name first, then look for the file count number. Once you get this technique down on a floppy, just do the same thing for your undeletable folder on your hard disk. You'll know the proper offset from the name field, so it shouldn't be hard to find the right bytes. Remember what the original byte(s) were that you changed, in case you screw up. Besides, you probably won't be any worse off after the edit than before, given that the folder is trashed already. I've used this technique successfully on 4 "empty" folders which contained 3, -1, -6, and -2 files respectively. After setting the file count to zero, all were deletable. One word of caution. Make ABSOLUTELY sure that there are no hidden (off the screen) or invisible files in the folder before you set the count to zero. Chuck --- * Origin: Brain In A Pan, Houston TX, (713) 480-7422. Mac Developers Here! (Opus 1:106/260) From: Steve Zopfi To: Andy Shaw 31-Jan-89 03:14pm Subject: RE:help! Undeletable Fold I finally found out how to destroy it. First rename the folder something like FolderFromHell to distinguish it from the rest of your desktop. Open up the Volume using MacSnoop. Search the disk for FolderFromHell (there may be multiple occourances). In the hex section of the window you will see a string that looks something like this: 0000 0100 XXXX where XXXX contains the number of files in the folder in Hex. Change XXXX to 0000. Make sure you do this to all occurances of FolderFromHell. Write the Block to the disk. Go back to the desktop and trash the folder and empty. It should go away. I am not sure what caused the problem originally. I believe it was linked to the power going out during a download from a BBS. Yours may have happened the same during a Disk I/O in Sum or whatever if the power Glitched. Good luck and let me know if it works. --- Tabby/Mansion 1.8 * Origin: Sea/Mac *Mansion/Tabby* (206-725-6629) HST (1:343/31) -------------------- I hope this helps. Good luck! Jim -- macak@lakesys.lakesys.com (James Macak) << All my own opinions. >>
cgw@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu (Gray Watson) (09/27/89)
>The easy way out of this problem is to take a tool like FEdit or MacSnoop and >set the count in the directory to zero. If you're not familiar with the >directory structure, play around with a floppy first by making a folder or >two, putting a known number of files in each one, and then searching the disk >for these values. Ugh!! >0000 0100 XXXX where XXXX contains the number of files in the folder in Hex. >Change XXXX to 0000. Make sure you do this to all occurances of >FolderFromHell. I think my brain just overloaded!!! :^0 One of the reasons for keeping the great, old DeskZap DA around is for solving this very problem. DeskZap is the only utility I have ever seen with the Close-Open-File command. Open the folder-from-hell with this command should list the offending files which you can select and close. This should allow you to throw away the folder NORMALLY. If is doesn't then uuuh..... follow what those guys said... :-) gray ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Addresses: | Virtual Address: Office of Biomedical Infomatics gray@med.pitt.edu | 217 Victoria Hall cgw@dsl.pitt.edu | Pittsburgh, PA 15261 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
englandr@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Scott Englander) (09/27/89)
This question comes up periodically. The solution is to use ResEdit,
select the folder, and use the Clear command to trash it.
--
- Scottmacak@lakesys.UUCP (James Macak) (09/27/89)
In article <1989Sep26.222410.15735@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu> gray@med.pitt.edu (Gray Watson) writes: >>The easy way out of this problem is to take a tool like FEdit or MacSnoop and >>set the count in the directory to zero. If you're not familiar with the >>directory structure, play around with a floppy first by making a folder or >>two, putting a known number of files in each one, and then searching the disk >>for these values. >Ugh!! >>0000 0100 XXXX where XXXX contains the number of files in the folder in Hex. >>Change XXXX to 0000. Make sure you do this to all occurances of >>FolderFromHell. >I think my brain just overloaded!!! :^0 Yes, mine did too, but after reading the directions a few times, practicing on a "test" folder, and then following the directions in light of my practice session, I _was_ able to delete such an "undeleteable" folder. >One of the reasons for keeping the great, old DeskZap DA around is for solving >this very problem. >DeskZap is the only utility I have ever seen with the Close-Open-File command. >Open the folder-from-hell with this command should list the offending files >which you can select and close. This should allow you to throw away the folder >NORMALLY. >If is doesn't then uuuh..... follow what those guys said... :-) >gray DeskZap may be a useful utility (haven't used it for ages myself) but the use of it as outlined above has no bearing on the problem as outlined above that! (I hope you can follow that!) The problem is that the Finder _thinks_ there are files in that undeleteable folder though there are in fact none there. As noted in the original message, Finder looks for "0" for the number of files in a folder to see if it is an empty folder. The problem arises when that number comes up as non-zero (including a negative number) and does not match the real number of files in the folder (which is usually zero since the user has tried to delete all the files already). Then you can't delete the folder (because it has non-zero files) and you can't delete the files (because they are already gone)! This, at least, is my understanding of the situation, which is more complex than the problem of a "busy" file in a folder. Jim -- macak@lakesys.lakesys.com (James Macak) << All my own opinions. >>
pasek@ncrcce.StPaul.NCR.COM (Michael A. Pasek) (09/28/89)
Add one more to the list: I use MacTools (which comes with Copy II Mac). It has a "Delete File" function which doesn't care about "busy", "in use", etc., and it's always worked for me. M. A. Pasek Switching Software Development NCR Comten, Inc. (612) 638-7668 CNG Development 2700 N. Snelling Ave. pasek@c10sd3.StPaul.NCR.COM Roseville, MN 55113