mystone@caen.engin.umich.edu (Dean Yu) (09/28/89)
In article <10169@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus) writes: >How many times have you had to pop a disk into one Mac just to copy a file >to a Macintosh sitting three feet away? Now, if you have your machines >networked together, you can transfer files over AppleTalk (no disks needed). > >How do you do this? Use "Public Folder." Claris has been kind enough to >release this handy utility AT NO COST. Because this is free software >... Does it use ADSP or ATP for transferring files? Unless is uses ADSP, I'm not impressed. OK, ok, maybe I'll be impressed a little bit, but I wouldn't be impressed as much as I would be if it uses ADSP. _______________________________________________________________________________ Dean Yu | E-mail: mystone@caen.engin.umich.edu Self-declared License Czar | Real-mail: Dean Yu University of Michigan | 909 Church St Computer Aided Engineering Network | Apt C INCLUDE 'Disclaimers.a' | Ann Arbor, MI 48104 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus) (09/28/89)
How many times have you had to pop a disk into one Mac just to copy a file
to a Macintosh sitting three feet away? Now, if you have your machines
networked together, you can transfer files over AppleTalk (no disks needed).
How do you do this? Use "Public Folder." Claris has been kind enough to
release this handy utility AT NO COST. Because this is free software
provided only as a service to the Macintosh community, Claris will not
formally be distributing this software, nor will they be able to provide
technical support.
Public Folder can be distributed freely. Pass copies around to all of your
friends.
I have already sent this software to info-mac and comp.binaries.mac, but if
you would like for me to send you a copy, just let me know (maybe someone
would be willing to post it to other electronic services as well). Hopefully
it will show up soon. [An aside: Nothing that I have ever posted to
comp.binaries.mac has ever shown up or been acknowledged.]
This utility is implemented as a Chooser RDEV, with a server process running
in the background on all machines running Public Folder. This means that you
can transfer a file from another machine while that other machine is in use.
Very nice. You can also transfer an entire folder (or folders) in one sweep,
also nice. (I have used this utility to transfer the contents of a 20MB disk
to a 40MB disk -- and the machines were in different buildings. Since
both were internal hard drives, this sure saved a lot of disk popping.)
-Michael
--
Michael Niehaus UUCP: <backbones>!{iuvax,pur-ee}!bsu-cs!mithomas
Apple Student Rep ARPA: mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu
Ball State University AppleLink: ST0374 (from UUCP: st0374@applelink.apple.com)vita@daredevil.crd.ge.com (Mark F. Vita) (09/29/89)
In article <10169@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus) writes: >How many times have you had to pop a disk into one Mac just to copy a file >to a Macintosh sitting three feet away? Now, if you have your machines >networked together, you can transfer files over AppleTalk (no disks needed). > >How do you do this? Use "Public Folder." Claris has been kind enough to >release this handy utility AT NO COST. Because this is free software >... Hmm, is this an incarnation of the fabled "Oscar" utility I've heard about? Supposedly Oscar was developed by some Apple engineer in his spare time, is quite nifty, and is used heavily inside of Apple. One rumor had it that Oscar had received Gassee's blessing and would be part of the System 7 release. Seems likely that such a beast would put a substantial dent in sales of things like TOPS... ---- Mark Vita vita@crd.ge.com General Electric CRD ..!uunet!crd.ge.com!vita Schenectady, NY
peirce@claris.com (Michael Peirce) (09/29/89)
In article <45eb3ff4.1285f@maize.engin.umich.edu> mystone@sol.engin.umich.edu writes: >In article <10169@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus) writes: >>How many times have you had to pop a disk into one Mac just to copy a file >>to a Macintosh sitting three feet away? Now, if you have your machines >>networked together, you can transfer files over AppleTalk (no disks needed). >> >>How do you do this? Use "Public Folder." Claris has been kind enough to >>release this handy utility AT NO COST. Because this is free software >>... > > Does it use ADSP or ATP for transferring files? Unless is uses ADSP, I'm >not impressed. OK, ok, maybe I'll be impressed a little bit, but I wouldn't be impressed as much as I would be if it uses ADSP. > >_______________________________________________________________________________ >Dean Yu | E-mail: mystone@caen.engin.umich.edu >Self-declared License Czar | Real-mail: Dean Yu >University of Michigan | 909 Church St >Computer Aided Engineering Network | Apt C > INCLUDE 'Disclaimers.a' | Ann Arbor, MI 48104 >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why in the world would people care if it uses ATP or ADSP??? Public Folder does the job and it does it with decient performance. Typical tranfer rates are 15K bytes per seconds using LocalTalk to LocalTalk and maybe 55K bytes per second EtherTalk to EtherTalk. These transfer rates include all the overhead: open remote file, read remote file, close remote file, create local file, open, write, close, flushVol, as well as transfer over the network. Your milage WILL vary based on network traffic, how many bridges you have to go through, speed of the two Macs and their disks, and phase of the moon (always the most important variable!). In practice this seems pretty good. For short files transfer time is negligible. Transfering a 10M hard disk took under four minutes over the ethernet... For the record, I did used ATP, rather then ADSP. With ATP I didn't need to allocate too much buffering. This allows Public Folder's server resident code and data buffers to take up less than 10K. This compares well with the alternatives (TOPS is a memory pig IMHO). Anyways, I hope people find Public Folder useful even though it uses the dreaded ATP ;-) Claris Corp. | Michael R. Peirce (author of Public Folder) -------------+-------------------------------------- | 5201 Patrick Henry Drive MS-C4 | Box 58168 | Santa Clara, CA 95051-8168 | (408) 987-7319 | AppleLink: peirce1 | Internet: peirce@claris.com | uucp: {ames,decwrl,apple,sun}!claris!peirce
oberst@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Daniel J. Oberst) (09/30/89)
One thing to note about PUBLIC FOLDER thought is that it doesn't set up a mounted volume (a la TOPS or AppleShare). So you couldn't use it for example to keep an updated office rolodex or other dynamic/shared files. You can't launch or just "use" a file with Public, but must "fetch" or actually copy it to your machine. "FTP for the masses." It does however make it easy to share files/folders. You just put it in your "Public" folder, "Broadcast" to your colleague that it's there and they can just "Fetch" it with the Public Chooser Cdev.
mystone@caen.engin.umich.edu (Dean Yu) (10/01/89)
In article <10588@claris.com> peirce@claris.com (Michael Peirce) writes: >In article <45eb3ff4.1285f@maize.engin.umich.edu> mystone@sol.engin.umich.edu writes: >> >> Does it use ADSP or ATP for transferring files? Unless is uses ADSP, I'm >>not impressed. OK, ok, maybe I'll be impressed a little bit, but I wouldn't be impressed as much as I would be if it uses ADSP. >> > >Why in the world would people care if it uses ATP or ADSP??? Public Folder >does the job and it does it with decient performance. Typical tranfer rates >are 15K bytes per seconds using LocalTalk to LocalTalk and maybe 55K bytes >per second EtherTalk to EtherTalk. These transfer rates include all the >overhead: open remote file, read remote file, close remote file, create local >file, open, write, close, flushVol, as well as transfer over the network. >Your milage WILL vary based on network traffic, how many bridges you have >to go through, speed of the two Macs and their disks, and phase of the >moon (always the most important variable!). > Excuse me. I meant AFP. (In both posts.) ADSP is a faster protocol than AFP. > >For the record, I did used ATP, rather then ADSP. With ATP I didn't need to >allocate too much buffering. This allows Public Folder's server resident >code and data buffers to take up less than 10K. This compares well with >the alternatives (TOPS is a memory pig IMHO). > >Anyways, I hope people find Public Folder useful even though it uses the >dreaded ATP ;-) > > I meant no negative criticism to you, Mike. I was wondering about the throughput of Public Folder. If it's as fast as you say, I'm not going to complain. _______________________________________________________________________________ Dean Yu | E-mail: mystone@caen.engin.umich.edu Self-declared License Czar | Real-mail: Dean Yu University of Michigan | 909 Church St Computer Aided Engineering Network | Apt C INCLUDE 'Disclaimers.a' | Ann Arbor, MI 48104 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus) (10/02/89)
I believe that I missed much of this conversation. Our system has been
having some major problems (incoming mail works, but that is about it;
hopefully this will make it out).
I believe that ATP is good to use. And the speed tradeoff is not
significant.
As for some timings, Public Folder gets between 4500 bytes/second and
5200 bytes/second between two SEs. Compare that with using floppies and
tennis shoes... (This is over LocalTalk.)
-Michael
--
Michael Niehaus UUCP: <backbones>!{iuvax,pur-ee}!bsu-cs!mithomas
Apple Student Rep ARPA: mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu
Ball State University AppleLink: ST0374 (from UUCP: st0374@applelink.apple.com)peirce@claris.com (Michael Peirce) (10/03/89)
> Excuse me. I meant AFP. (In both posts.) ADSP is a faster protocol than AFP. >_______________________________________________________________________________ >Dean Yu | E-mail: mystone@caen.engin.umich.edu >Self-declared License Czar | Real-mail: Dean Yu >University of Michigan | 909 Church St >Computer Aided Engineering Network | Apt C > INCLUDE 'Disclaimers.a' | Ann Arbor, MI 48104 >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aha, AFP (AppleTalk Filing Protocol -- used by AppleShare) vs. non AFP (ATP or ADSP) makes sense now. PUBLIC FOLDER does *not* implement AFP. That is, PUBLIC FOLDER does not provide you with an AppleShare compatable server. It does not let you mount a volume like AppleShare or TOPS. It does let you copy a file from another mac. I guess it's like FTP or DECNET COPY. Claris Corp. | Michael R. Peirce -------------+-------------------------------------- | 5201 Patrick Henry Drive MS-C4 | Box 58168 | Santa Clara, CA 95051-8168 | (408) 987-7319 | AppleLink: peirce1 | Internet: peirce@claris.com | uucp: {ames,decwrl,apple,sun}!claris!peirce