ddgg0881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (10/17/89)
I have two major irritations when using the finder: 1. You have two folders open and you want to transfer or copy a file from one to the other. You click on the file you want to move and then its window comes to the front which totally obliterates your view of the destination folder. Yuck! it would have been easier to use DOS or UNIX. 2. When using multifinder typically you have a lot of windows open for whatever applications you're using. If you go to the desktop these windows block out your view of the trashcan. It feels pretty bad when you can't even remove files. Dale Gerdemann University of Illinois, Dept of Linguistics Cognitive Science Group, Beckman Institute dale@tarski.cogsci.uiuc.edu d-gerdemann@uiuc.edu
jsp@key.COM (James Preston) (10/18/89)
In article <111900082@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> ddgg0881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > >1. You have two folders open and you want to transfer or >copy a file from one to the other. You click on the file >you want to move and then its window comes to the front >which totally obliterates your view of the destination folder. >Yuck! it would have been easier to use DOS or UNIX. Yes! YES! YES! I am a relatively new (< 6 mos.) Mac user and this is, without a doubt, my number one complaint in the "sounds small, but is amazingly irritating" category. (I've wanted to post this complaint myself, but was afraid of being laughed at by the old timers. :-) Is there any chance that some Mac-guru with some extra time on his hands could think up and implement some way to remove this particular thorn from our sides? Perhaps an init to provide an option that temporarily disables the mandate that the clicked-in folder comes to the top? I don't know enough about the MacInternals to know if this is even possible, but there must be SOME way to ease this pain. --James Preston
alms@cambridge.apple.com (Andrew L. M. Shalit) (10/18/89)
In article <1166@key.COM> jsp@key.COM (James Preston) writes: In article <111900082@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> ddgg0881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > >1. You have two folders open and you want to transfer or >copy a file from one to the other. You click on the file >you want to move and then its window comes to the front >which totally obliterates your view of the destination folder. >Yuck! it would have been easier to use DOS or UNIX. Yes! YES! YES! I am a relatively new (< 6 mos.) Mac user and this is, without a doubt, my number one complaint in the "sounds small, but is amazingly irritating" category. (I've wanted to post this complaint myself, but was afraid of being laughed at by the old timers. :-) Sounds like a good use of the ol' command key in the next version of the finder. As you know (maybe) holding down the command key when you click in the title-bar lets you move a window without selecting it. Shouldn't be too hard to extend this to work for selecting files. Of course, it would have to be done by the people who write the finder. Whoops, I just thought of a problem with this. Right now the Finder can assume that only the front window has selected items in it. That model would have to be changed. Allowing selected items in multiple windows would probably be a good thing, though. -andrew
dorourke@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (David M. O'Rourke) (10/18/89)
alms@cambridge.apple.com (Andrew L. M. Shalit) writes: >Sounds like a good use of the ol' command key in the next version of >the finder. As you know (maybe) holding down the command key when you >click in the title-bar lets you move a window without selecting it. >Shouldn't be too hard to extend this to work for selecting files. >Of course, it would have to be done by the people who write the >finder. I remember hearing somewhere that the 'new' finder will not bring a window forward, or some such, until a mouse-up. So you press the button on the file, and if you keep the button down {very reasonable assumption IMHO} then you're proably doing a file-drag for a copy or some such. Having played with this idea some in my current projects it works quite well. The users really don't care if a window isn't selected until the mouse-up, and in fact I personal haven't noticed much difference in operation as far as window selection goes. This is all based on memory, and I might be confused... But if I am confused I'd like to submit this idea as a possible solution. Seems elegant {sp??} to me, so that must mean I didn't think of it. :-) -- \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\|///////////////////////////////////////// David M. O'Rourke____________________|_____________dorourke@polyslo.calpoly.edu | Graduating in March of 1990, with a BS in Computer Science & need a Job. | |_____________________________________________________________________________|
FTWILSON@pucc.Princeton.EDU (Frederick Todd Wilson) (10/18/89)
In article <ALMS.89Oct17173900@brazil.cambridge.apple.com>, alms@cambridge.apple.com (Andrew L. M. Shalit) writes: >In article <1166@key.COM> jsp@key.COM (James Preston) writes: > > In article <111900082@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> ddgg0881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > > > >1. You have two folders open and you want to transfer or > >copy a file from one to the other. You click on the file > >you want to move and then its window comes to the front > >which totally obliterates your view of the destination folder. > >Yuck! it would have been easier to use DOS or UNIX. > FYI, this and many other grips will be taken care of in System 7. - FTW (std. disclaimer) - - - - - - - - -
6600pete@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (10/18/89)
In article <111900082@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> ddgg0881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > I have two major irritations when using the finder: > 1. You have two folders open and you want to transfer or > copy a file from one to the other. You click on the file > you want to move and then its window comes to the front > which totally obliterates your view of the destination folder. > Yuck! it would have been easier to use DOS or UNIX. Drag the destination folder out to the Desktop, drag your file into it, then use Put Away from the File menu. There's a command key for it, or if there isn't stick one in there with ResEdit. Better yet, get a real file maintenance utility, specifically CE Software's DiskTop, which is a DA that does everything the Finder does except icons. Apple knows about the many problems with the Finder interface. There are rumors that System 8.0 will address them in a very big way. Mostly I hear that the Standard File (Open dialog) interface will be somehow unified with the Desktop (Finder) interface, probably at the expense of the former. Remember that the Finder was written with non-hierarchical 400K disks in mind. > 2. When using multifinder typically you have a lot of windows > open for whatever applications you're using. If you go to the > desktop these windows block out your view of the trashcan. It > feels pretty bad when you can't even remove files. Learn to manage your windows. [ aside: Smart applications (Word, f'rinstance) don't open new windows that cover up the vertical strip of screen that the Trash lives in. ] Better yet (again), get DiskTop. When you become a "power user" (which the Mac was supposed to make obsolete, but tough for the visionaries, dammit), the Trash can metaphor will only frustrate you, because nothing REALLY gets deleted when it goes into the Trash, and that's what you'll want. P.S. DiskTop has the added benefit of being available all the time under SingleFinder.
pasek@ncrcce.StPaul.NCR.COM (Michael A. Pasek) (10/18/89)
In article <1166@key.COM> jsp@penguin.key.COM (James Preston) writes: >In article <111900082@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> ddgg0881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >>1. You have two folders open and you want to transfer or >>copy a file from one to the other. You click on the file >>you want to move and then its window comes to the front >>which totally obliterates your view of the destination folder. >Yes! YES! YES! I am a relatively new (< 6 mos.) Mac user and this is, >without a doubt, my number one complaint in the "sounds small, but is >amazingly irritating" category. (I've wanted to post this complaint myself, >but was afraid of being laughed at by the old timers. :-) >[remainder deleted] While I cannot say that this has NEVER happened to me, I certainly immediately recognized that I could accomplish by goal by doing one of a number of things: 1) Move the "from" window so it doesn't cover up the "to" window 2) "Growbox" the "to" window so it shows around the "from" window 3) Close the "to" window so it's just a folder, then move the files Now, from experience, I have arranged my desktop so the likelihood of this occurring is minimized -- yet I still have things arranged so that they are convenient to get to and work with. I think it's a heck of a lot easier (even with the gripes mentioned) to copy files from one folder to another on a Mac than from one directory to another on U**x or DOS. So....don't make something more complex than it has to be....keep the Finder (and it's "rules") simple. M. A. Pasek Switching Software Development NCR Comten, Inc. (612) 638-7668 CNG Development 2700 N. Snelling Ave. pasek@c10sd3.StPaul.NCR.COM Roseville, MN 55113
chris@sunset.ncsl.nist.gov (Chris Schanzle) (10/19/89)
jsp@key.COM (James Preston) writes: >In article <111900082@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> ddgg0881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >> >>1. You have two folders open and you want to transfer or >>copy a file from one to the other. You click on the file >>you want to move and then its window comes to the front >>which totally obliterates your view of the destination folder. >>Yuck! it would have been easier to use DOS or UNIX. >Yes! YES! YES! I am a relatively new (< 6 mos.) Mac user and this is, >without a doubt, my number one complaint in the "sounds small, but is >amazingly irritating" category. Guys! You obviously haven't seen or heard about an init called "Rear Window". It allows you to click and drag icons on lower windows to other (higher) windows. It uses the Command + Tab keys to distinguish from the standard operation of clicking and dragging. If you can see what you want to copy and where you want to copy it to, you can do it! The init is something like 1,600 bytes. A binhex is SO incredibly small (34 lines) that I've included it below for your enjoyment. (This file must be converted with BinHex 4.0) :#e*PBA)J9fPZC'ph!%P15943699()!#3"`C2jq3!N!3"!*!$"B`!!!5-!*!$``# 3!iS!!J#3"@%!+!"e!'3%!Np,!*!&B3#h!(8,8Q9KFL"AD@jNEhF#!*!eS(PBf!# 3"JC2C#"[EQ8Z)%4[)(P[G5"hDA0S)(4[)'p`C@iJDA3J2`#3"#)!!3#3"5J!C!! m!,3%!Np,!*!&#J!M!"i"GSJ#AM!!N!21!!B!N!J"p!(d!*!(%`!b!#S"')J28Q9 cEh9bBf8J4@4TG'pb!*!'$!!+!#`!N!1LB!i!!%P1593!N!K"q[rZ)FJ*cQ!!!'4 19[ri,c`!N!3[2%0[C'8r2!!!UD!YArrm5Ulrr'B%F!&J-L"ZrrbJ+5mZrrbTNM! m!4qK4LB))'lrr#"3-$`"(k"(,82rq#"Zrr`J8#&ZrrJ!"(!!6Pj1G8P18e4"6%a 351IiF+%S+!LJ+8kkrj*R!!!)2c`!!UR))%5J+NcI$Kp1G8je!!!"!*!*$rri!!U UU!!2rrJ!#!!)!!Xib!!,2-J!#cc)!!J!#!!)!!J!#!rrq!J+UUKrrrri9993#(r rmiK!!"2)3!!6b&YZ%!KEEa!)@fm3#%!!%!K!!"!B6QfIq%pYN!!!6ff3!!"!!"! !3!!`!(rrm!#3&3rrq!!2rrJ!$rri!!rrq!!2rrJ!$rri!!rrq!!2rrJ!$rri!!r rrrJ2rrriIrrrq(rrrrKrrrriIrrrq(rrrrKrrrriIrrrq(rrrrKrrrriIrrrq(r rrrKrrr!!Irr`!(rrm!"rrr!!Irr`!*!3(&"098F!N!-"5801)`#3"B"'8N9'!*! &J!#3!`G*6NP8!*!'p'!1!!"$Ef4P!*!)3IVrlL()#FjJ!!#D6PErk%KZrr#TGM" Z!!JJ#)(m!#!p32rU-'i!##!)JI`!)%K!28$rk$"ZrqJJ#)(m!!MR3$"ZrqJL#)2 m!!K)3A3(P%(33Me!rqK`(j!!E[rSFJ(KU5e"rq``,[rU5-$PJ0#1)%!J+2r``+l rl%U!CJ4`!'!#F!&1ANje590,49P%6eG19J!!6PiJAdr[!!41d%eC8d9-480851I mH#J)2c`!0dkkrea86`a!!!"R!!!82c`!-%kkrdT86`a!!!"Q!!!-@%3J4#"3B!! !"N(krl4-hair6Y"1G3#3!dY+8Q9KFPGTEQ4[Gbi09Q9bFfP[EL!a,M!J)!e$Eh" jFQPRD(3J3@aXB@iJ4QpcG'9b)$%j1$JZ$@&QEh0dCA*!Bh0P,QpRBbjPC(8!!!& X6PEqqLm)S#N[&dKZrrT)E[rm5'lqqUQS2blrqMmmrrp1ZJ!+)&qJ+NjH6R919J! !,`Y#Tbmm5801)cmZ!!UTS#!ICb!J3+!T*NJ[%$mZ!!K1ZJ!8)%ZJ+Lm)UD-QAdj H,Tp1G@$f6PEqV%MR2a`[1!N%5qlrr#(0#34)E[riU'j)E[kXU'm`1!NXieJ+3"! KX(J*,QFB$,K3BA9X#RKR#$(m!!J*,'!'-IJ+IJNX3HlqV$!S!!`%3!!S5%!`1!N X,8$r*Le!rbS'EJ!Jrb`'EJ!JrbSQEJ!+B63`1!NX-Li!#'S%-M`!+0""-F!*,10 B#N!3)6(!#5j)E[kXU(dKh`N%60mir%jH)&pFMdl35Hlr'#L,"T3!N!1!1A`!"!! %3U`!"LPm!#!!)!!+,`a&l[kX5'S!!NKk!#a)E[mQ2c`!!d+RU1`%P!#3!i![$%K U!!*)HJ!35'lr*Mmm!!&#TkMX6R8!N!8J!#!!!!%!N!-&M!!!")`!N!2$!!PLc!1 Z!*!$(!#L!!9*6NP8!!%!-NP$6L-!N!0+3Nj%6!#3!eC'8N9'!*!$BN0[C'8!N!0 Z8%e94`#3!hS!N!3J!*!%#G1F!)!!'#!!!a`!#G--!)$rr`#3!kB!N!@!rrm!!!' U!*!&J2rr!!!"bJ#3"`a3!!(9!*!'rrm!!!,0!*!%#dCTEQ4PFP"KG'0S#dCTEQ4 PFR"KG'0S#&0SEhG*6NP8%Ai: "There are bigger things in the Chris Schanzle, Comp. Scntst scheme of life than to worry Ntnl Inst. of Stds & Tech about a woman who drives you nuts." chris@sunset.ncsl.nist.gov 129.6.48.38
kh@cs.glasgow.ac.uk (Kevin Hammond) (10/19/89)
In article <ALMS.89Oct17173900@brazil.cambridge.apple.com> alms@cambridge.apple.com (Andrew L. M. Shalit) writes: >Whoops, I just thought of a problem with this. Right now the Finder >can assume that only the front window has selected items in it. >That model would have to be changed. Allowing selected items in >multiple windows would probably be a good thing, though. Yes, this can be a major irritation (try copying certain files from certain folders to floppy, or running an application with two files from different folders). Allowing selections over different disks might be a problem, though, perhaps? You might need to take individual error actions for each folder involved in the selection, for instance? Kevin -- Wot? No Signature? UUCP: ...!mcvax!ukc!uea-sys!kh JANET: kh@cs.glasgow.ac.uk
barry@wolman1.prime.com (10/19/89)
In your posting to comp.sys.mac, you mention having difficulty "seeing"
the trashcan under Multifinder with lots of windows open. You should
acquire either InvisiWin FKEY or WindowShade, both of which have been
posted to SUMEX archives relatively recently and may also be available
from bulletin boards, Bix, Compuserve, Genie, etc.
InvisiWin is an FKEY that makes the active window of the current
application "transparent" so you can see and touch what is underneath
it. For example, suppose the active window overlaps the icon for a
mounted floppy. cmd-shift-7 makes the window transparent, so that all
you see is the title bar and the outline, and you can then click on the
now visible mounted icon. cmd-shift-7 a second time restores
visibility. InvisiWin has worked well for me. It handles all sorts of
windows, including ones with rounded corners such as is used by
calculator DA.
Windowshade is similar in purpose, but is a CDEV/INIT. You can
configure it so that visibility is toggled (as with InvisiWin) by
clicking on the title bar with/without modifier keys being depressed.
Windowshade is a bit different in that it leaves only the title bar
visible and can't deal with round cornered windows. I briefly tried
Windowshade and found that it worked OK. But, since I already had
enough INITs, I decided that I preferred to use an FKEY.
Either of these programs (both freeware) should do what you want.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Wolman | barry@s66.prime.com
Principal Technical Consultant | 500 Old Connecticut Path
Prime Computer | Framingham, MA 01701
| 508/626-1700, ext. 4187
------------------------------------------------------------------------khaw@parcplace.com (Mike Khaw) (10/19/89)
jsp@key.COM (James Preston) writes: +In article <111900082@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> ddgg0881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: +> +>1. You have two folders open and you want to transfer or +>copy a file from one to the other. You click on the file +>you want to move and then its window comes to the front +>which totally obliterates your view of the destination folder. +>Yuck! it would have been easier to use DOS or UNIX. +Yes! YES! YES! I am a relatively new (< 6 mos.) Mac user and this is, +without a doubt, my number one complaint in the "sounds small, but is +amazingly irritating" category. (I've wanted to post this complaint myself, +but was afraid of being laughed at by the old timers. :-) +Is there any chance that some Mac-guru with some extra time on his hands +could think up and implement some way to remove this particular thorn +from our sides? Perhaps an init to provide an option that temporarily +disables the mandate that the clicked-in folder comes to the top? +I don't know enough about the MacInternals to know if this is even possible, +but there must be SOME way to ease this pain. There is a freeware INIT called Rear Window that allows you to pick icons from a folder other than the active folder -- however, on my 6.0.2 SE, it doesn't work under MultiFinder, only under Finder. Mike Khaw -- ParcPlace Systems, 1550 Plymouth St., Mountain View, CA 94043 415/691-6749 Domain=khaw@parcplace.com, UUCP={uunet,sun,decwrl}!parcplace!khaw
mystone@caen.engin.umich.edu (Dean Yu) (10/19/89)
In article <1766@durer.cme.nbs.gov> chris@sunset.ncsl.nist.gov (Chris Schanzle) writes: >jsp@key.COM (James Preston) writes: >>In article <111900082@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> ddgg0881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >>> >>>1. You have two folders open and you want to transfer or >>>copy a file from one to the other. You click on the file >>>you want to move and then its window comes to the front >>>which totally obliterates your view of the destination folder. >>>Yuck! it would have been easier to use DOS or UNIX. > >>Yes! YES! YES! I am a relatively new (< 6 mos.) Mac user and this is, >>without a doubt, my number one complaint in the "sounds small, but is >>amazingly irritating" category. > >Guys! You obviously haven't seen or heard about an init called "Rear >Window". It allows you to click and drag icons on lower windows to >other (higher) windows. It uses the Command + Tab keys to distinguish >from the standard operation of clicking and dragging. If you can see >what you want to copy and where you want to copy it to, you can do it! > Yes, yes, but it doesn't work under MultiFinder... _______________________________________________________________________________ Dean Yu | E-mail: mystone@caen.engin.umich.edu Self-declared License Czar | Real-mail: Dean Yu University of Michigan | 909 Church St Computer Aided Engineering Network | Apt C INCLUDE 'Disclaimers.a' | Ann Arbor, MI 48104 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
a_dent@vaxa.uwa.oz (Andy Dent, ph: 09 380 2620) (10/19/89)
In article <111900082@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>, ddgg0881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > I have two major irritations when using the finder: > > 1. You have two folders open and you want to transfer or > copy a file from one to the other. You click on the file > you want to move and then its window comes to the front > which totally obliterates your view of the destination folder. > Yuck! it would have been easier to use DOS or UNIX. > > 2. When using multifinder typically you have a lot of windows > open for whatever applications you're using. If you go to the > desktop these windows block out your view of the trashcan. It > feels pretty bad when you can't even remove files. > Which is exactly why I use DiskTop from CE Software - it has a MUCH better interface to copying and deleting files and also a logical Move - across volumes as well as between folders on the same volume!
cyosta@taux01.UUCP ( Yossie Silverman ) (10/19/89)
In article <1166@key.COM> jsp@penguin.key.COM (James Preston) writes: .In article <111900082@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> ddgg0881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: .> .>1. You have two folders open and you want to transfer or .>copy a file from one to the other. You click on the file .>you want to move and then its window comes to the front .>which totally obliterates your view of the destination folder. .>Yuck! it would have been easier to use DOS or UNIX. . .Yes! YES! YES! I am a relatively new (< 6 mos.) Mac user and this is, .without a doubt, my number one complaint in the "sounds small, but is .amazingly irritating" category. (I've wanted to post this complaint myself, .but was afraid of being laughed at by the old timers. :-) . .Is there any chance that some Mac-guru with some extra time on his hands .could think up and implement some way to remove this particular thorn .from our sides? Perhaps an init to provide an option that temporarily .disables the mandate that the clicked-in folder comes to the top? .I don't know enough about the MacInternals to know if this is even possible, .but there must be SOME way to ease this pain. . .--James Preston Someone did. I don't remember what it is called, but basically, in FINDER, it allows you to select from a non-front window when the command-tab keys are held down. I use it all the time and haven't had ANY problems with it. I think it is called something like 'Rear Window'. - Yossie -- Yossie Silverman What did the Caspian sea? National Semiconductor Ltd. (Israel) cyosta%taux01@nsc.nsc.COM or RPR1YOS@TECHNION.BITNET NSA LSD FBI KGB PCP CIA MOSAD NUCLEAR MI5 SPY ASSASSINATE SDI -- OOLCAY ITAY
wwtaroli@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Bill Taroli) (10/20/89)
Well, allowing multiple items to be selected in multiple windows would be nice in the finder EXCEPT, for instance, if you forgot that you selected a file somewhere and then subsequently did something that you wouldn't have wanted to do to that particular file (or group of files). Also, since this has something to do with windowing... this would leave open the possibility of having multiple text selections in multiple windows in programs. And if you really wanted to extend the capabilities of this feature... why not allow multiple items selected in multiple windows of multiple APPLICATIONS?? You see the problems that this sort of thinking creates? Bill Taroli WWTAROLI@RODAN.acs.syr.edu
wwtaroli@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Bill Taroli) (10/20/89)
In article <1989Oct17.220051.25171@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU> dorourke@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (David M. O'Rourke) writes: > > I remember hearing somewhere that the 'new' finder will not bring a >window forward, or some such, until a mouse-up. So you press the button >on the file, and if you keep the button down {very reasonable assumption >IMHO} then you're proably doing a file-drag for a copy or some such. Well, what would you do if you wished to copy multiple files from one folder to another? Although this does make sense for the copying of a single file from one folder to another... although remember that instead of having both folder open, only the destination folder's icon need be visibile. If the window of the source folder overlaps it, having this capability will do you no good. Bill Taroli WWTAROLI@RODAN.acs.syr.edu
ddgg0881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (10/20/89)
>I have two major irritations when using the finder: > >1. You have two folders open and you want to transfer or >copy a file from one to the other. You click on the file >you want to move and then its window comes to the front >which totally obliterates your view of the destination folder. >Yuck! it would have been easier to use DOS or UNIX. >Guys! You obviously haven't seen or heard about an init called "Rear >Window". It allows you to click and drag icons on lower windows to >other (higher) windows. It uses the Command + Tab keys to distinguish >from the standard operation of clicking and dragging. If you can see >what you want to copy and where you want to copy it to, you can do it! When I wrote the original question I was hoping that someone would point out some simple solution that I didn't know about because I haven't read all the tip books. This seems like such a basic operation that I find it amazing that Apple hasn't bothered to fix up the problem. The "Rear Window" solution sounds almost right but I can see now how it would work for me. I would see the file I want to copy and see the place where I wanted to put it. But I wouldn't notice which window was active so I would forget the arcane Command+Tab key combination. The solution suggested by David O'Rourke is much closer to the mark. You simply don't select the window until you release the mouse button: > I remember hearing somewhere that the 'new' finder will not bring a >window forward, or some such, until a mouse-up. So you press the button >on the file, and if you keep the button down {very reasonable assumption >IMHO} then you're proably doing a file-drag for a copy or some such. Some people told me that I simply wasn't managing my windows correctly. These people must know about something I don't know about. If the source folder and the destination folder are both 4 or 5 levels deep you've, got the desktop covered before you even begin the copy or move operation. Again the whole operation could have been done in DOS or UNIX before you even begin on the Mac. My purpose though is not to dump on the Mac. I actually need to use the Mac for some purposes and it's getting on my nerves. I'm hoping someone will tell me an easier way to do things. The other main suggestion I got was to use the program Disktop. I guess the point of this suggestion is that the finder is hopeless and it's best to give up on it and use some desk accessory that does the same thing in a nicer way. This may be the correct way to go. Dale Gerdemann University of Illinois, Dept of Linguistics Cognitive Science Group, Beckman Institute dale@tarski.cogsci.uiuc.edu d-gerdemann@uiuc.edu
kent@sunfs3.camex.uucp (Kent Borg) (10/20/89)
In article <111900082@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> ddgg0881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >I have two major irritations when using the finder: > >1. You have two folders open and you want to transfer or >copy a file from one to the other. You click on the file >you want to move and then its window comes to the front >which totally obliterates your view of the destination folder. >Yuck! it would have been easier to use DOS or UNIX. This is supposed to be fixed in the 7.0 Finder. As of last May (very old 7.0 info at this point, but the best I have), Apple said that the new 7.0 Finder would not restack windows on mouse down, but wait until mouse up, so just grabbing an icon and dragging it off will not hide your destination. >2. When using multifinder typically you have a lot of windows >open for whatever applications you're using. If you go to the >desktop these windows block out your view of the trashcan. It >feels pretty bad when you can't even remove files. This will also get better under 7.0, but you don't have to wait until then! Find someone who has Apple's SADE debugger. With it comes MultiFinder 6.1b7 (at least that is my number) which has a "Set Aside" item under the apple menu. It causes all the windows belonging to the current application to be spirited off to some invisible place where they don't cover up the screen and where they don't require lots of update time. 6.1b7 also moves the application list to appear above the DA list--very nice for us Suitcase abusers. Seems to be solid too. I think all MultiFinder users should use it. -- Kent Borg "Then again I could be foolish kent@lloyd.uucp not to quit while I'm ahead..." or -from Evita (sung by Juan Peron) ...!husc6!lloyd!kent
jsp@key.COM (James Preston) (10/21/89)
Someone wrote: >Guys! You obviously haven't seen or heard about an init called "Rear >Window". No, I sure haven't, but it sounds like I'd love it. Can anyone tell me where or how I could obtain a copy? (I would have emailed the author of the above but, due to the earthquake, we missed some news here so I only got to read about Rear Window secondhand.) --James Preston
long@rainbo.enet.dec.com (Richard Long) (10/23/89)
In article <538@sunfs3.camex.uucp>, kent@sunfs3.camex.uucp (Kent Borg) writes... >In article <111900082@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> ddgg0881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >>I have two major irritations when using the finder: >> >>[copying and window stuff deleted] > >[suggests getting Multifinder 6.1b7 to address window irritations] 6.1b7 is VERY nice in handling those annoying windows that overlay the desktop, BUT, as I found out the hard way, SuperMac's SuperSpool program DOES NOT work with it. SuperMac is aware of the problem, according to their tech support, but they are going to wait and see what happens when the final, release Multifinder appears. Anyway, if you use SuperSpool, thought I'd save you some time before you go hunting all over for the beta Multifinder. [Small poke at SuperMac follows] I used that beta Multifinder for some months, and NOTHING ELSE ever had a glitch under it, until SuperSpool came along... Sigh. The wonderful world of software incompatibilities. Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>| mcntsh::long | "I'd like that tattooed /~~) /~~ / | long@mcntsh.enet.dec.com | on my thigh." -MASH /~~\ /__ /__ | ...!decwrl!mcntsh.enet.dec.com!long | Richard C. Long | long%mcntsh.dec@decwrl.enet.dec.com |
mjkobb@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Michael J Kobb) (10/24/89)
In article <5669@shlump.nac.dec.com> long@rainbo.enet.dec.com (Richard Long) writes: >6.1b7 is VERY nice in handling those annoying windows that overlay the desktop, >BUT, as I found out the hard way, SuperMac's SuperSpool program DOES NOT work >with it. WHAT?!???!?! I use Super Spool all the time with 6.1b7. Daily, actually, and I have no trouble. I use it in the manual feed mode, granted, but it still frees up the mac while printing, just coming back to prompt for new pages. What are the symptoms? --Mike
long@rainbo.enet.dec.com (Richard Long) (10/24/89)
In article <869@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU>, mjkobb@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Michael J Kobb) writes... >In article <5669@shlump.nac.dec.com> long@rainbo.enet.dec.com (Richard Long) writes: > >>6.1b7 is VERY nice in handling those annoying windows that overlay the desktop, >>BUT, as I found out the hard way, SuperMac's SuperSpool program DOES NOT work >>with it. > >WHAT?!???!?! I use Super Spool all the time with 6.1b7. Daily, actually, and >I have no trouble. I use it in the manual feed mode, granted, but it still >frees up the mac while printing, just coming back to prompt for new pages. >What are the symptoms? REALLY? :-) You must have a gift. I'm running in automatic feed mode on an SE which at the time was running 6.0.2, plus the beta Multifinder. I got symptoms ranging from a complete system lockup to a system bomb box with error 12, indicating an unimplemented system trap. I was ready to chuck SuperSpool, when I decided to try it under Finder. Worked fine. Then I dropped back to the 6.0.2 MultiFinder. Worked fine. It appeared to be the beta MultiFinder that was the culprit. I run a lot of INITs, true, but disabling them made no difference. I called Supermac tech support, and they acknowledged the problem, so it's not my imagination. I just wish they'd fix it. I miss that beta MF... Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>| mcntsh::long | "This is me." /~~) /~~ / | long@mcntsh.enet.dec.com | "...guess you wouldn't /~~\ /__ /__ | ...!decwrl!mcntsh.enet.dec.com!long | lie to me about a Richard C. Long | long%mcntsh.dec@decwrl.enet.dec.com | thing like that." -MASH
unhd (Thomas J Baker) (10/24/89)
Where does one get all these latest versions of System Software? There is alot of talk of Multifinder 6.1b7 and LaserWriter 6.0 but I've not yet seen where they can be obtained. Thanks for any information you can send me.
vila@wmt.UUCP (Vincent van der Laan) (10/24/89)
In article <1989Oct17.220051.25171@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU>, dorourke@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (David M. O'Rourke) writes: > stuff deleted... > I remember hearing somewhere that the 'new' finder will not bring a > window forward, or some such, until a mouse-up. So you press the button > on the file, and if you keep the button down {very reasonable assumption > IMHO} then you're proably doing a file-drag for a copy or some such. > > Having played with this idea some in my current projects it works quite > well. The users really don't care if a window isn't selected until the > mouse-up, and in fact I personal haven't noticed much difference in > operation as far as window selection goes. > > This is all based on memory, and I might be confused... But if I am > confused I'd like to submit this idea as a possible solution. Seems > elegant {sp??} to me, so that must mean I didn't think of it. :-) I was at the Apple Macintosh Developers Conference in Paris and sure enough, this feature of System 7.0 was demonstrated (the crowd cheered)! I don't know implementation details though. Anyway, we just have to wait till 7.0 comes out. (BTW it was great to see the outline fonts!) Greetings, Vincent.
orchard@tybalt.caltech.edu (John Orchard) (10/25/89)
>In article <1166@key.COM> jsp@key.COM (James Preston) writes: > > In article <111900082@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> ddgg0881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > > > >1. You have two folders open and you want to transfer or > >copy a file from one to the other. You click on the file > >you want to move and then its window comes to the front > >which totally obliterates your view of the destination folder. > >Yuck! it would have been easier to use DOS or UNIX. > > Yes! YES! YES! I am a relatively new (< 6 mos.) Mac user and this is, > without a doubt, my number one complaint in the "sounds small, but is > amazingly irritating" category. > The key to using the Finder, and Multifinder as well, is to think of it in terms of its "metaphor". Yes, a groan from the audience, because metaphor is a much abused term at Apple. Nonetheless.. The Finder is supposed to be just like a desktop. All thos windows you have open are supposed to be like pieces of paper or folders on top of that desktop. Well, some people have messy desks, and others have neat desks. When you want to look at something on a piece of paper, but only half that piece is visible, you have to pick up that piece and slide it out from under the other pieces. This is like when you click on a file and its window comes to the foreground on the Mac. The way around this on your desk is to place papers you know you will be using right next to one another without one obscuring the other. Same thing on your Mac in the Finder. Remember you can resize windows, as well as scroll them, sao this can help you out on a small screen. The important thing to remember here is that it is supposed to be like something we all recognize and have dealt with: a real desktop, and so it inevitably gets the same problems a real desktop gets. There is another solution to your problem, too, though. What you can do when you click on your file and the window pops up, covering you destination, just move your file directly onto the background (the "desktop" itself), and then into the window or folder you want. Admittedly, it is a two step process, but again, the great leap (IMHO) to an intuitive interface will unfortunately bring along baggage from the "metaphor". Hope this helps the change-over from DOS. John Orchard orchard@tybalt.caltech.edu
kent@sunfs3.camex.uucp (Kent Borg) (10/26/89)
In article <111900083@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> ddgg0881@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >Again the whole operation could have been done in DOS or UNIX before >you even begin on the Mac. My purpose though is not to dump on the Mac. >I actually need to use the Mac for some purposes and it's getting on my >nerves. I'm hoping someone will tell me an easier way to do things. For those who ever long for Unix-like features on the Macintosh, join APDA and buy MPW. It is only $100 these days. It gives you equivilents of most the simple Unix tools, scripting, a reasonable editor, and a source code management system. Just the backup tool is worth it for me. I use it to do hard disk-to-hard disk backups, it seems faster than DiskFit. Normal people should not buy MPW, but any techno-nerd with a couple free megs of disk space who ever longs for a command line should.-- Kent Borg "Wouldn't it be fun not to be famous? kent@lloyd.uucp Wouldn't it be fun not to be rich?" or -Cole Porter lyric (from Aladdin) ...!husc6!lloyd!kent