sharp@ksi.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Maurice Sharp) (11/17/89)
I just played with a portable. One of the tests I like to do is Crystal Quest. See how many critters you can get without bogging down the machine. Well, version 2.2 CRASHES THE PORTABLE !!!! It does not crash SE, SE/30 or MacII types. Modified ROMS huh ? I guess it is back to the drawing board or find a fix time ! maurice Maurice Sharp University of Calgary Computer Science Department 2500 University Drive N.W. sharp@ksi.cpsc.UCalgary.CA Calgary, Alberta, T2N 1N4 ...!alberta!calgary!sharp
chrisj@ut-emx.UUCP (Chris Johnson) (11/22/89)
In article <2106@cs-spool.calgary.UUCP> sharp@ksi.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Maurice Sharp) writes: > > I just played with a portable. One of the tests I like to do is >Crystal Quest. See how many critters you can get without bogging >down the machine. Well, version 2.2 CRASHES THE PORTABLE !!!! It >does not crash SE, SE/30 or MacII types. Modified ROMS huh ? I guess >it is back to the drawing board or find a fix time ! > > maurice > >Maurice Sharp >University of Calgary Computer Science Department >2500 University Drive N.W. sharp@ksi.cpsc.UCalgary.CA >Calgary, Alberta, T2N 1N4 ...!alberta!calgary!sharp Having had a chance to do considerably more than "play" with a portable (I was loaned one for two days with which I could do anything I wanted), I have to say that the above statements are rather rash and pointless. The Macintosh Portable is a *real* Macintosh in every respect - right down to the fact that developers that don't play by the rules when they write software are going to create programs that are very likely to break, sooner or later. Just because some arbitrarily chosen piece of software (a game, no less) crashes on the machine, does not mean that there's anything wrong with the machine. 98% (or more) of the time, the problem is with the application(s), not the ROMs, not the System Software, not the machine itself. In running the Portable I encountered only two programs that crashed: ScrapSaver 1.4 (an INIT), and NCSA Telnet 2.3 (an advanced communications program). All the other software I tried, including a suite of PD cdevs, RDEVs and INITs, worked without a hitch. I expect that relatively simple fixes to both ScapSaver (which I can live without) and NCSA Telnet (which I missed) will eliminate the crashes. Games, in particular, are known for violating developer guidelines - witness all the games that had to be re-written when the Mac II was introduced, and games like Falcon that *only* work with the Apple color card because they continue to do unusual and dubious things even in their current incarnations. So, whether games work or not on a particular type of Mac or in a particular release of the System, generally says very little about the quality of the Mac or the System, but it usually *does* say a great deal about the quality of the game itself. (I should add that the few games I tried on the Portable worked great: The Idrow, Leprechaun and Shufflepuck.) All in all, the simple fact that arbitrarily-chosen-program-X, crashes on any make of Macintosh (Portable or otherwise) doesn't necessarily tell us anything about the Macintosh in question. I hope this helps, ----Chris (Johnson) ----chrisj@emx.utexas.edu
chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (11/22/89)
>> I just played with a portable. One of the tests I like to do is >>Crystal Quest. See how many critters you can get without bogging >>down the machine. Well, version 2.2 CRASHES THE PORTABLE !!!! It >>does not crash SE, SE/30 or MacII types. Modified ROMS huh ? I guess >>it is back to the drawing board or find a fix time ! >Having had a chance to do considerably more than "play" with a portable >(I was loaned one for two days with which I could do anything I wanted), I >have to say that the above statements are rather rash and pointless. Actually, considering the number of very low-level (e.g. visible only to the software) changes that there are very few real compatibility issues with the Portable. I've worked with it a fair amount, and it's hard to find things that don't work. Crystal Quest doesn't, but most of the games I've tried do, including things like Shufflepuck. What bothers me is this "I've used it for 10 minutes, a program crashed on it, it's terrible" attitude -- why do you automatically assume it's the Mac problem? The original Crystal Quest, for instance, wouldn't work with Multifinder, for instance. It's impossible to really evaluate anything based on *a* program or *an* afternoon. Imagine if I'd just read the first four words of your posting and decided what I thought of it from there.... >Games, in particular, are known for violating developer guidelines - witness >all the games that had to be re-written when the Mac II was introduced, and >games like Falcon that *only* work with the Apple color card because they >continue to do unusual and dubious things even in their current incarnations. Or the games that won't load onto hard disks, or the games that *still* won't work under multifinder, or the games (like MicroLeague Baseball) that still won't work on a Mac II, or.... -- Chuq Von Rospach <+> Editor,OtherRealms <+> Member SFWA/ASFA chuq@apple.com <+> CI$: 73317,635 <+> [This is myself speaking] All it takes is one thorn to make you forget the dozens of roses on the bush.
russ@key.COM (Russell Donnan) (11/22/89)
In article <2106@cs-spool.calgary.UUCP> sharp@ksi.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Maurice Sharp) writes: > > I just played with a portable. One of the tests I like to do is >Crystal Quest. See how many critters you can get without bogging >down the machine. Well, version 2.2 CRASHES THE PORTABLE !!!! It >does not crash SE, SE/30 or MacII types. Modified ROMS huh ? I guess >it is back to the drawing board or find a fix time ! > > maurice My educated "guess" is that this happens because Crystal Quest checks for color quickdraw by looking at the machine number. Since the machine number is one that it doesn't recognize, it does a >n. The premis that Apple would NEVER make a new machine without color quickdraw obviously was a mistake. ;-) Crystal Quest is not the only program with this problem. A lot of MS programs have the same result for the same reasons. (sigh) -Russ -- Russ Donnan (415) 623-2121 Amdahl Corporation, Key Computer Laboratories, Fremont, CA, USA russ@key.amdahl.com, ...!{pacbell,sgi,amdahl}!key!russ -To capture the essence of an opinion takes but one lawyer.
cyosta@taux01.UUCP ( Yossie Silverman) (11/22/89)
Crystal Quest 2.2c worked sort of strangely on my Mac SE/30. It complained about colors or something, but worked anyway. As for the Portable, I suggest you find someone (yourself?) who knows how to use, and has, Nosy/TMON and Fedit and its ilk. A few minutes should be all it takes to find and fix the code to work, if only on the Portable. - Yossie P.s. I speak of experience, I had to do it to other games. :-) -- Yossie Silverman What did the Caspian sea? National Semiconductor Ltd. (Israel) cyosta%taux01@nsc.nsc.COM or RPR1YOS@TECHNION.BITNET NSA LSD FBI KGB PCP CIA MOSAD NUCLEAR MI5 SPY ASSASSINATE SDI -- OOLCAY ITAY
russ@key.COM (Russell Donnan) (11/23/89)
In article <21247@ut-emx.UUCP> chrisj@emx.UUCP (Chris Johnson) writes: >In article <2106@cs-spool.calgary.UUCP> sharp@ksi.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Maurice Sharp) writes: Having replied to Maurice already, I just couldn't pass up this one. Sorry... I hate to re-order Chris' posting, but it suits my needs. ;-) >All in all, the simple fact that arbitrarily-chosen-program-X, crashes on any >make of Macintosh (Portable or otherwise) doesn't necessarily tell us anything >about the Macintosh in question. This I agree with whole-heartedly! It isn't the Mac's fault, so don't blame Apple! >The Macintosh Portable is a *real* Macintosh in every respect - right down >to the fact that developers that don't play by the rules when they write >software are going to create programs that are very likely to break, sooner >or later. ... <deleted> This I don't agree with. Most of the programs which don't work on the portable follow the Macintosh Developer Guidlines to the letter. What has happened is a machine which was not in the guidlines has come out, and the software had to make an assumption about it. Now, please tell me, if you had to make a guess... Would you think that a new Mac would have Color QD? I know I would. Anyway, I'm sure the new software will be out soon enough. Well worth the wait for the Mac Portable IMHO. -Russ -- Russ Donnan (415) 623-2121 Amdahl Corporation, Key Computer Laboratories, Fremont, CA, USA russ@key.amdahl.com, ...!{pacbell,sgi,amdahl}!key!russ -To capture the essence of an opinion takes but one lawyer.
lsr@Apple.COM (Larry Rosenstein) (11/23/89)
In article <1259@key.COM> russ@xanadu.key.COM (Russell Donnan) writes: > >and the software had to make an assumption about it. Now, please tell >me, if you had to make a guess... Would you think that a new Mac would >have Color QD? I know I would. Anyway, I'm sure the new software will >be out soon enough. Well worth the wait for the Mac Portable IMHO. It is not necessary to guess whether a machine has color QuickDraw. A call to SysEnvirons will tell you that. This will work on all future machines. SysEnvirons also indicates the exact model. It is incorrect that a value greater than some value implies that the machine has color QuickDraw. (That's what people seemed to say was the problem in this case; I don't know if it is or not.) A similar thing happened when the Mac IIx came out. Some programs were testing to see if the machine contained a 68020 in it to decide whether color QD was available, and failed. -- Larry Rosenstein, Object Specialist Apple Computer, Inc. 20525 Mariani Ave, MS 46-B Cupertino, CA 95014 AppleLink:Rosenstein1 domain:lsr@Apple.COM UUCP:{sun,voder,nsc,decwrl}!apple!lsr
macgyver@banana.cis.ohio-state.edu (wilson m liaw) (11/23/89)
In article <1259@key.COM> russ@xanadu.key.COM (Russell Donnan) writes: [....deleted] > >This I don't agree with. Most of the programs which don't work on the >portable follow the Macintosh Developer Guidlines to the letter. What >has happened is a machine which was not in the guidlines has come out, >and the software had to make an assumption about it. Now, please tell >me, if you had to make a guess... Would you think that a new Mac would >have Color QD? I know I would. Anyway, I'm sure the new software will >be out soon enough. Well worth the wait for the Mac Portable IMHO. In which place the portable didn't follow the Macintosh Developer guidlines? I disagree with the fact that you can assume a new Mac would have color QD. I mean, it doesn't exactly take a whole lot to check if Color QD is available, you know... Mac -=- Wilson "Mac" Liaw |Don't fall in love, it's too complicated. Internet:macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu | - Molly Ringwald =============================================================================== Disclaimer:Nobody knows what I am talking about, including myself.
chrisj@ut-emx.UUCP (Chris Johnson) (11/24/89)
In article <1259@key.COM> russ@xanadu.key.COM (Russell Donnan) writes: >>In article <21247@ut-emx.UUCP> chrisj@emx.UUCP (Chris Johnson) writes: >> >>The Macintosh Portable is a *real* Macintosh in every respect - right down >>to the fact that developers that don't play by the rules when they write >>software are going to create programs that are very likely to break, sooner >>or later. ... <deleted> > >This I don't agree with. Most of the programs which don't work on the >portable follow the Macintosh Developer Guidlines to the letter. What >has happened is a machine which was not in the guidlines has come out, >and the software had to make an assumption about it. Now, please tell >me, if you had to make a guess... Would you think that a new Mac would >have Color QD? I know I would. Anyway, I'm sure the new software will >be out soon enough. Well worth the wait for the Mac Portable IMHO. Actually, NO, I wouldn't assume that any new Macintosh would automatically have Color QuickDraw. Furthermore, there would be no need for me to make any such assumption. A simple call to SysEnvirons will tell me whether the Mac my software is running on has Color QuickDraw or not (via. the hasColorQD field of the SysEnvRec). I mean, that's what it's there for, right? If Apple had meant developers to make assumptions about what function- ality would be present in future Macs, they'd have been saying things like "if you get a machineType number greater than 4 (envMacII), you'll know you have Color QuickDraw", but they've said no such thing, and, in fact, they've gone to some trouble to provide functions like SysEnvirons() and Gestalt() so that developers can check for *specific* functionality without making any assumptions. I mean, geez! :-) Cheers, ----Chris (Johnson) ----chrisj@emx.utexas.edu