mcdonald@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Doug McDonald) (12/19/89)
In article <3450@husc6.harvard.edu> fry@brauer.harvard.edu (Zippy) writes: >What kind of intelligence is it that is proud of being able to >use a command line interface rather than a graphic-based one? >Do you seriously consider this some sort of badge of honor? >How threatened you must feel by those that can use both... > I'm not threatened - I use both. As to the answer to the first question, we are here getting dowm to the heart of the Mac-toaster-all_menu system and the Unix/MS-DOS command driven system. (Note that one could patch a command line into the MAC to remedy its shortcomings). The kind of intelligence that is less useful on a Mac is the ability to solve complicated problems by combining pieces of a solution, being able to see how to do a given task by working with convenient pre-existing things. It is the same kind of task that high schoolers learn (well, I did) in geometry (proving theorems), that freshmen learn in calculus class (doing a complicated integral by various tricks) and that I do in my business, solving problems in theoretical physics. The MAC-type interface limits the interconnectivity of different programs. Now, of course, you can use the clipboard to move certain limited sets of data between programs. But you can't do it very generally. Consider the Unix model of "filter" programs: programs that operate on ascii data and manipulate it in various ways. This is very powerful, even with only the supplied programs, and grows infinitely powerful asymptotically as one writes new filters. On Unix you can do this from the command line, on MS-DOS you may be able to, or may need a batch file. The MAC doesn't HAVE a command line or batch files. This is its biggest failing - you can't (short of finding one for it) automate things. Everything has to be done from the keyboard (unless you write your own programs, which is VERY un-MACish). You will note that essentially EVERY MS-DOS computer comes with a programming language (a powerful if disgusting one) built in, and most Unix boxes also do. Writing programs for the MAC (or other similar system, such as Microsoft Windows) is tough. Sufficiently tough to make the MAC not the machine of choice for doing serious calculations. I have written one program for the MAC, just to see how to do it, and several for Microsoft Windows (because I needed programs that will multitask properly and also for them the mouse/menu interface was right) (one of these programs is proving quite popular, it is a Windows previewer for TeX) - and it is justifyable only is special cases. The philosophy of the Mac is that it is the world's most powerful appliance. There is no philosophy for a PC - it is just there. The Mac way has been grafted onto the PC, because it is better for certain things, no doubt about that. It is better as an appliance. But the Mac (normal user interface) has never been extended beyond its limited way as a standard feature (i.e. one that comes standard or is sold in every software store in the land for $99). Consider this: if the Mac is the greatest, why does Steve Jobs sell a Unix box? The NeXt gives you the union of both schools, right out of the carton. The NeXt shows great promise. Whatever promise the Mac ever had, has already been achieved. Short of becoming another NeXt, it is a dead end. Microsoft Windows and OS/2-PM and Unix/X offer the same thing for the PC hardware, a bit less elegantly, much cheaper. I amd not claiming that NeXts or PC's or Unixes are the "greatest", I am simply flaming the MAC for being limited. Doug McDonald
6600pete@hub.UUCP (12/20/89)
Boy, am I looking forward to getting flamed for this! From article <1989Dec19.152919.7284@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, by mcdonald@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Doug McDonald): > Consider this: if the Mac is the greatest, why does Steve Jobs > sell a Unix box? Hee hee. Because he was kicked out of Apple. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pete Gontier | InterNet: 6600pete@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu, BitNet: 6600pete@ucsbuxa Editor, Macker | Online Macintosh Programming Journal; mail for subscription Hire this kid | Mac, DOS, C, Pascal, asm, excellent communication skills
mnkonar@gorby.SRC.Honeywell.COM (Murat N. Konar) (12/20/89)
In article <3375@hub.UUCP> 6600pete@hub.UUCP writes: >Boy, am I looking forward to getting flamed for this! > >From article <1989Dec19.152919.7284@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, by mcdonald@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Doug McDonald): >> Consider this: if the Mac is the greatest, why does Steve Jobs >> sell a Unix box? > >Hee hee. Because he was kicked out of Apple. Actually, the CuBE is a MACH box. Hey! Let's start another flame fest over UNIX vs. MACH! And let's crosspost and everything! ____________________________________________________________________ Have a day. :^| Murat N. Konar Honeywell Systems & Research Center, Camden, MN mnkonar@SRC.honeywell.com (internet) {umn-cs,ems,bthpyd}!srcsip!mnkonar(UUCP)