sapg0386@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (11/30/89)
I bought my mac + in september. I have been writing programs in C and it has been working fine. This week I thought I would buy a game and play a little. So I went to my mall software outlet and bought simcity. What a mistake. I get it home and put it in the computer and all it can do is ask me to insert the original simcity disk. It can't tell that the original simcity disk is already in there. Finally I dig out the system manual and get the disk ejected. I put it back in and again it says to insert the original simcity disk. At least now it knows to eject it. But you can go through this cycle n times where n is any positive integer. At 40 bucks I expect to get a little more than this. I am going to see if I can get my money back. But I think anyone that tries to sell this kind of crap (the developer and the retailer both) should be legally barred from the software business. No one would tolerate this behavior in an appliance or a car or a house or just about any other retail item. A lot of kids are going to be disappointed on christmas morning. So buyer beware, at least one company out there is charging big bucks for nothing more than a diskette in a box. Steve Pax 502 E. White St. #24 Champaign, Ill 61820
rsvp@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (R. Scott V. Paterson) (12/01/89)
In article <111900101@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> sapg0386@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >At 40 bucks I expect to get a little more than this. > >I am going to see if I can get my money back. But I think anyone that >tries to sell this kind of crap (the developer and the retailer both) >should be legally barred from the software business. No one would >tolerate this behavior in an appliance or a car or a house or just about >any other retail item. A lot of kids are going to >be disappointed on christmas morning. > >So buyer beware, at least one company out there is charging big bucks >for nothing more than a diskette in a box. This is one of the most ridiculous postings I have ever read. You obviously received a bad disk which could be quickly remedied by returning it to the store where you bought it. Realize that SimCity is copy protected and the behavior you describe occurs with any illegal copy of the program. You must have the original disk. Furthermore, to label the company as charging big bucks for nothing more than a diskette in a box is an unfounded and only displays your blind anger - stupidity. You obviously have done nothing about the situation other than to release your frustrations with a posting to the world. Maxis software is one of the finest companies I have ever dealt with. After having lost my SimCity disk on a drive cross country, I simply mailed them a letter with a photocopy of my filled out registration card asking them how I could get another disk and they responded by sending my a brand new and updated version of their game, which is, by the way, one of the best games/simulators I have ever seen for the mac. Contrary to your ignorant statement, any mac person that receives SimCity for Christmas or any other holiday will be more delighted than the gift giver could have hoped. No defective product is tolerated, but we have all experienced a defective product in our lifetimes. You have actions that you can take. Why don't you use your head instead of your fingers. GO BACK TO THE STORE AND GET A REPLACEMENT. I'll bet they will replace it w/o a second thought. An inconvenience? Yes, but I'm afraid taking legal action to bar the retailer and developer for the malfuntion of this disk would be like taking legal action to bar you from the net for the malfunction of your brain. Respectfully, R. Scott V. Paterson System Operator Kiewit Computational Center Dartmouth College rsvp@dartmouth.edu
sm5g+@andrew.cmu.edu (Scott Hunter Morgan) (12/01/89)
You obviously got a defective disk. Why not heed the advice of a previous post and return the disk to the store, I am sure they would exchange it. I have had SimCity for a few months now and have had absolutely no problems with it whatsoever. So I think we all would appreciate it if you would refrain from making stupid posts in the future. -Scott Morgan sm5g@andrew.cmu.edu
sapg0386@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (12/05/89)
Judging by the mail I recieved, bad disks are a big problem. Almost all my mail says to just take the disk back and don't gripe. Many people were outraged and insulting. This defensiveness makes me think that it really will take legislation to solve the problem. How unfortunate. That is just the kind of attitude that is eroding public enthusiasm for home computers. If that disk had worked I probably never would have got around to reading their warranty--which turned out to be one of those "sold AS IS" things. This is another practice that is chilling the public. Their documentation was bad too--in particular it didn't describe what was actually happening on my screen. I took it back and got a disk that worked. I can only say that the sometimes so-called simulation and sometimes so-called game is as disappointing as the so-called warranty. A bug surfaced in the very first city I ran (after a tornado took out part of an industrial square it proved impossible to bull-doze away the two little undestroyed sub-sectors that remained). But it is the childish simplicity and baby-talk interface that really turned me off. I would never have known that this thing was aimed at not so bright high-school age kids or lower from the reviews I read. I guess those reviewers have to write happy-talk hyperbole to keep their jobs. Something as simple as an alarm that goes off whenever your popularity falls below a certain level would have made it twice as much fun. There must be dozens of little trivial improvements like this that they over-looked or what is more likely, cunningly left out in anticipation of simcity II. Indeed they already offer me the chance to buy a terrain editor -- and given the really poor quality of their automatically generated terrains, a lot of people probably do. Well, I got a disk that worked, but I should have got my money back. - steve pax
drs@bnlux0.bnl.gov (David R. Stampf) (12/05/89)
In article <111900102@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> sapg0386@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > >Judging by the mail I recieved, bad disks are a big problem. I for one didn't have a bad disk. Its just that everyone was able to figure out your problem. >Almost all my mail says to just take the disk back >and don't gripe. Many people were outraged and insulting. Just responding in kind to the tone of your original note... >This defensiveness makes me think that it really will take >legislation to solve the problem. > Great - the Department of Bad Disk Detection and User Education for those who can't figure it out. That should help the deficit a bunch. >How unfortunate. You said it. >Well, I got a disk that worked, but I should have got my money back. >- steve pax Have a nice holiday steve - I hope you enjoy all of your other gifts as much. < dave
casseres@apple.com (David Casseres) (12/06/89)
In article <111900102@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> sapg0386@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu whines: [much pissing and moaning about how SimCity is not designed the way HE would have designed it...] > Well, I got a disk that worked, but I should have got my money back. And I guess if you'd gotten your money back, you'd be complaining that they should pay you for the time you spent trying to make a defective diskette work, huh? David Casseres Exclaimer: Hey!
ajauch@ics.uci.edu (Alexander Edwin Jauch) (12/06/89)
In article <111900102@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> sapg0386@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > >Judging by the mail I recieved, bad disks are a big problem. >Almost all my mail says to just take the disk back >and don't gripe. Many people were outraged and insulting. >This defensiveness makes me think that it really will take >legislation to solve the problem. [stuff deleted] Ladies and gentlemen, if you are of gentle disposition please push the n key. For the rest of you and particularly you Steve, I have had just about enough! Why don't you quit your whining and leave the rest of us alone! Legislation! For God's sake why? Don't you think the federal government has more important things to deal with than your little disk problem? Disks go bad. If the manufacturer gives you a bad disk he should replace it. > >How unfortunate. > >That is just the kind of attitude that is >eroding public enthusiasm for home computers. If that disk had [stuff deleted] > >I took it back and got a disk that worked. I can only say that ^^^^^^ >the sometimes so-called simulation and sometimes so-called game >is as disappointing as the so-called warranty. A bug surfaced > So called warranty? You got a new disk free didn't you? That's what I call a great warranty. As for taking back a product you don't like, try that with a new car and watch the salesman laugh you out the door. >Well, I got a disk that worked, but I should have got my money back. > > >- steve I think you were treated very fairly by the dealer and have very little room to complain. Alex Jauch ajauch@bonnie.ics.uci.edu Disclaimer: The University thinks I'm *working*!
sm5g+@andrew.cmu.edu (Scott Hunter Morgan) (12/06/89)
>Judging by the mail I recieved, bad disks are a big problem. Not really, at least not in my experiences. >This defensiveness makes me think that it really will take >legislation to solve the problem. I don't think people are defensive, it is just that most people don't throw a hissy fit when they get a bum disk, they return it and get a good one without any fuss or bother to anyone, especially to those of us in network land. And legislation on this would be pretty stupid. >That is just the kind of attitude that is >eroding public enthusiasm for home computers. I don't think public enthusiasm for home computers is eroding at all, I think it is just the opposite, I think that enthusiasm for them is growing all the time. I think that it is your kind of attitude that would discourage interest in computers. >Their documentation >was bad too--in particular it didn't describe what was actually >happening on my screen. Are you sure you read it? I thought it was some of the better documentation around. > A bug surfaced in the very first city I ran ... So. There are very few programs out there today that run absolutely flawlessly. >But it is the childish simplicity and baby-talk interface >that really turned me off. I would never have known that this >thing was aimed at not so bright high-school age kids or lower >from the reviews I read. Guess what the largest market for computer games is... You shouldn't have to be a computer scientist to play a game,even if it is a simulation. >Well, I got a disk that worked, but I should have got my money back. You should be paying us to have to put up with your bitching and moaning... Nuff Said... -Scott Morgan -A poor little not so bright Applied Math/CS student at CMU who happens to think that SimCity is a very cool game, and very well done. P.S. Merry Christmas
dwt@well.UUCP (dwt) (12/07/89)
> This is one of the most ridiculous postings I have ever read. You > obviously received a bad disk which could be quickly remedied by > returning it to the store where you bought it. Realize that SimCity > is copy protected and the behavior you describe occurs with any illegal > copy of the program. You must have the original disk. Furthermore, to > label the company as charging big bucks for nothing more than a diskette > in a box is an unfounded and only displays your blind anger - stupidity. > You obviously have done nothing about the situation other than to > release your frustrations with a posting to the world. I'm sorry to disagree but I also had EXACTLY the same problem with SimCity's copy scheme. It turns out that the scheme fails on a Radius accelerated mac. They acknowledge the problem and offer no fix. As you can imagine I was severely bummed too! So: Take of your boot and apply it to your mouth and then when your face stops being quite so red, maybe you could apologise to the net for being and arrogant overbearing a*****e! Wow, now I feel better! -- David W. Taylor, Detail Software,75 Camino De Herrera, San Anselmo, CA 94960 (415) 453-0712 dwt@well.sf.ca.us
dsf2652@ultb.isc.rit.edu (D.S. Fuller) (12/07/89)
In article <111900102@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> sapg0386@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > >Judging by the mail I recieved, bad disks are a big problem. >Almost all my mail says to just take the disk back >and don't gripe. Many people were outraged and insulting. >This defensiveness makes me think that it really will take >legislation to solve the problem. > Boy, there is nothing like killing a knat with a bazooka! >That is just the kind of attitude that is eroding public enthusiasm for >home computers. I don't thing there are any bad attitudes other that yours. Bad floppies are something that occurs in life because of various inherent problems in making this type of media. Dust, temperature changes and numberous things can make a disk go bad AFTER it leaves the factory and even the software company. Making diskettes is not like making cars where if someone makes a mistake the car suffers. Diskettes are very fragile and I think that legislation to SOLVE the problem is making a mountain out of a molehill. >If that disk had worked I probably never would have got around to reading >their warranty--which turned out to be one of those "sold AS IS" things. >This is another practice that is chilling the public. Most (and I have not deal with one that hasn't) companies have no problem taking back a piece of software that is defective. The warranty which your claim is so asisine is a legal document which is required by FEDERAL & most state laws to be there. The 'sold AS IS' clause as you put it is there so the software will not be modified or changed. This could be read as 'you bought, you own it and we won't deal with you anymore' but most companies are discernible and will help you out because helpng you will help their image. >Their documentation was bad too-- in particular it didn't describe what >was actually happening on my screen. Reading this one comment, I was wondering if you were reading the same documentation as myself. The task that was taken when writing a manual especially on a subject of which has to take into account political, enviromental and social-economic structure of our society is a monumental achievement. I have read the manual through a couple times and have even look at some other the other books that they suggest and have found they not only where they through with the game but with the subject. I must admit that there are little holes but I think those were not left out by omitted to make the game more challenging. >I took it back and got a disk that worked. I can only say that >the sometimes so-called simulation and sometimes so-called game >is as disappointing as the so-called warranty. A bug surfaced >in the very first city I ran (after a tornado took out part of >an industrial square it proved impossible to bull-doze away the >two little undestroyed sub-sectors that remained). I cannot even begin to answer your opinions of the game because even has there own personal opinions. I have found the program more of a simulation that a game. It is a program which makes learning fun but I don't think it was writting to provide hours of pure, gaming fun. It a challenging and thinking program and I think that how it should be look at. >But it is the childish simplicity and baby-talk interface >that really turned me off. I would never have known that this >thing was aimed at not so bright high-school age kids or lower >from the reviews I read. I guess those reviewers have to write >happy-talk hyperbole to keep their jobs. Yet another comment for imflammanation. I find it very hard to believe that as popular as this game is and of all of the wonderful comments and reviews that it gets, that you can add insult to injury and make a sweep like that. >Something as simple as an alarm that goes off whenever your popularity >falls below a certain level would have made it twice as much fun. I'm sure Mr. Mike Dukakis would agree with that. >There must be dozens of little trivial improvements like this that they >over-looked or what is more likely, cunningly left out in anticipation >of simcity II. What... do you think Rome was built in a day? >they already offer me the chance to buy a terrain editor -- and given >the really poor quality of their automatically generated terrains, >a lot of people probably do. I myself have the terrain editor, but it was not because 'of their auto- matically generated terrains' it was because I want to try building on islands, different enviroments and to see how a city would be affected by different things. >Well, I got a disk that worked, but I should have got my money back. >- steve pax I'm sure alot of people on the net would have to agree that you should have got your money back, therefore you wouldn't be bothering us with these inflammatory comments. This is not an aspersion on to you, but I feel that if you have such strong comments about something you should seek other opinion. One man's junk is another man's treasure... ______ / | Desi S. Fuller - Rochester Institute of Technology | | _________/ | "Where the Men are Men, and so are the Women" | * | / R.I.T. | Internet: dsf2652%ucss@cs.rit.edu |_____________ | UUCP:{decvax,harvard,ames,rutgers}rochester!ritcv!dsf2652 \_ | | | "Remember... no matter where you go, there you are. \_//====/ - Buckaroo Banzai
jtn@zodiac.ADS.COM (John Nelson) (12/09/89)
In article <111900101@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> sapg0386@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > >I bought my mac + in september. I have been writing programs in C and it >has been working fine. This week I thought I would buy a game and play >a little. So I went to my mall software outlet and bought simcity. > >What a mistake. I get it home and put it in the computer and all it can >do is ask me to insert the original simcity disk. It can't tell that >the original simcity disk is already in there. Finally I dig out the >system manual and get the disk ejected. I put it back in and again >it says to insert the original simcity disk. At least now it knows to >eject it. But you can go through this cycle n times where n is any >positive integer. At 40 bucks I expect to get a little more than this. Easy there... I have no such problems with SimCity on the Mac II. I assume you're trying to runlhe new colour version. The only significant problem with the colour SimCity is that mousing is a little slow and stupid. I've had no problems as you describe. John T. Nelson UUCP: sun!sundc!potomac!jtn Advanced Decision Systems Internet: jtn@potomac.ads.com 1500 Wilson Blvd #512; Arlington, VA 22209-2401 (703) 243-1611
chapman@acf4.NYU.EDU (Gary W. Chapman) (12/09/89)
/* acf4:comp.sys.mac / sapg0386@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu / 8:38 pm Nov 29, 1989 */ I bought my mac + in september. I have been writing programs in C and it has been working fine. This week I thought I would buy a game and play a little. So I went to my mall software outlet and bought simcity. What a mistake. I get it home and put it in the computer and all it can do is ask me to insert the original simcity disk. It can't tell that the original simcity disk is already in there. Finally I dig out the system manual and get the disk ejected. I put it back in and again it says to insert the original simcity disk. At least now it knows to eject it. But you can go through this cycle n times where n is any positive integer. At 40 bucks I expect to get a little more than this. I am going to see if I can get my money back. But I think anyone that tries to sell this kind of crap (the developer and the retailer both) should be legally barred from the software business. No one would tolerate this behavior in an appliance or a car or a house or just about any other retail item. A lot of kids are going to be disappointed on christmas morning. So buyer beware, at least one company out there is charging big bucks for nothing more than a diskette in a box. Steve Pax 502 E. White St. #24 Champaign, Ill 61820 /* ---------- */
jtn@zodiac.ADS.COM (John Nelson) (12/14/89)
In article <14852@well.UUCP> dwt@well.UUCP (dwt) writes: > >I'm sorry to disagree but I also had EXACTLY the same problem with >SimCity's copy scheme. It turns out that the scheme fails on a Radius >accelerated mac. They acknowledge the problem and offer no fix. >As you can imagine I was severely bummed too! > >So: Take of your boot and apply it to your mouth and then when your >face stops being quite so red, maybe you could apologise to the net >for being and arrogant overbearing a*****e! This is getting tiring. SimCity for the Mac II (colour) is not copy protected in any way that I can find. I copied the game from its distribution disks to my hard disk and everything works fine. Oh sure it has a few little problems (like the mousing is stupid and slow paricularly when you have "update all windows" turned on) but certainly no copy protection difficulties or impedements to simply running the thing. John T. Nelson UUCP: sun!sundc!potomac!jtn Advanced Decision Systems Internet: jtn@potomac.ads.com 1500 Wilson Blvd #512; Arlington, VA 22209-2401 (703) 243-1611
LaserMan@cup.portal.com (Bob LaserMan Murrow) (12/15/89)
John Nelson> There are no problems with the MacII... Well it wont work with third party color baords, and it crashes on a MacIIci. I have not been able to get a refund from them. I bought it direct as an upgrade. My letter was unanswered. Bob Murrow
ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) (12/15/89)
The person who has the Radius Accelerator probably does not have a] Mac II. SimCity for regular Macs is copy protected. At least, the ComputerWare catalog and some reveiws I have read say so. I can't say for sure because I haven't bought it for this very reason. If the Mac II version really is not copy protected, I might buy it. I don't have a color system, however. How is it in monochrome? Tim Smith
dce@smsc.sony.com (David Elliott) (12/17/89)
In article <25043@cup.portal.com> ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) writes: >If the Mac II version really is not copy protected, I might buy it. >I don't have a color system, however. How is it in monochrome? This is somewhat confused. There is no "Mac II" version, per se, though there is a version that's only really useful on a Mac II. The standard monochrome Sim City is copy protected, will not run under MultiFinder, runs on most Macs, including Mac IIs, but requires 1-bit mode. On a Mac II, it runs quite fast. The color version of Sim City is not copy protected, and will run under mf. I've run it in 16-color mode, and it's slow but nice to look at. It also runs in 4-color mode and in monochrome, but looks terrible, since they are using colors instead of doing dot shading (bulldozed area is black, and details are very poor). It will not run at all in 256-color mode (which is why I didn't buy it - I was lucky enough to have a friend who bought it and let me see it). As far as I know, this version will work on all Macs, though I haven't tried it. -- David Elliott dce@smsc.sony.com | ...!{uunet,mips}!sonyusa!dce | (408)944-4073 "As I never read this newsgroup or my email, please send replies via carrier pigeon."
hodges@maui.cs.ucla.edu (Jack Hodges) (12/19/89)
> In article <10057@zodiac.ADS.COM> jtn@ads.com (John Nelson) writes: > >SimCity for the Mac II (colour) is not copy protected in any way that >I can find. I copied the game from its distribution disks to my hard >disk and everything works fine. Oh sure it has a few little problems >(like the mousing is stupid and slow paricularly when you have "update >all windows" turned on) but certainly no copy protection difficulties >or impedements to simply running the thing. > Well, I stopped reading these comments after the first couple and decided to purchase the game. I am not impressed with Maxis in the least, and none of it has to do with the game itself. When someone tells me that they have this game for the MacII and they sell me a monochrome version with an "upgrade" (my god) to color, then I say FUCK YOU. I have a color machine and if there exists a version in color then they should quote me that price, and quote a monochrome price to someone with an SE or a plus. Second, I bought a hard disk to keep from having to fuck with floppies all the time. Imagine how happy I was when I tried to launch the game (from the disk version) and was asked to insert the floppy. Well, I went to the installation blurb that came with the game and it said this would occur the first time that I launched the program. It did not go on to say this would happen EVERY SINGLE TIME that I try to launch the program. So, I just want to say that, even though I have NEVER even played the game (and really wanted to), I am returning it for a refund. I am not impressed or pleased with this attitude, nor the greed which inspires it. If those others of you out there feel so strongly in favor of these antics then please direct your efforts at the company which spawns "our" behavior. Get them to change their policy. My comment to them is this: you had a paying customer, now you don't...wake up and smell the coffee. Jack Hodges, UCLA
du4@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Ted Goldstein) (12/19/89)
In article <30101@shemp.CS.UCLA.EDU> hodges@maui.UUCP (Jack Hodges) writes: -> In article <10057@zodiac.ADS.COM> jtn@ads.com (John Nelson) writes: >>SimCity for the Mac II (colour) is not copy protected in any way that >>I can find. I copied the game from its distribution disks to my hard >>disk and everything works fine. Oh sure it has a few little problems >>(like the mousing is stupid and slow paricularly when you have "update >>all windows" turned on) but certainly no copy protection difficulties ->I stopped reading these comments after the first couple and decided to >purchase the game. I am not impressed with Maxis in the least, and >none of it has to do with the game itself. When someone tells me that >they have this game for the MacII and they sell me a monochrome version >with an "upgrade" (my god) to color, then I say FUCK YOU. I have a >color machine and if there exists a version in color then they should >quote me that price, and quote a monochrome price to someone with an >SE or a plus. Second, I bought a hard disk to keep from having to fuck >with floppies all the time. Imagine how happy I was when I tried to >launch the game and was asked to insert the floppy. Well, I went to .... >So, I just want to say that, even though I have NEVER even played the >game (and really wanted to), I am returning it for a refund. I am not >impressed or pleased with this attitude, nor the greed which inspires it... >Jack Hodges, UCLA I recently purchased SimCity from MacConnection for my Mac II. I told them that I wanted it to run in color on my Mac II, and I wanted the terrain editor. They told me that I wanted 'SimCity Supreme' and that is what I ordered. Unfortunately when the order arrived, is was the monochrome Simcity. So I called them back and asked them about it and they confirmed that I should have gotten the 'Supreme' version and politely shipped it right out (and offered to pay postage on the return of the other). SimCity Supreme doeas run in color, it is not copy protected, and it is very very very addicting! This game is so much fun I have been playing it for several hours a day, and losing sleep to fit it in! I strongly encourage you to put aside your current frustration, order SimCity Supreme and start simulating away....it really is a very good program. Ted Goldstein du4@mace.cc.purdue.edu f o d d e r
mha@memory.UUCP (Mark H. Anbinder) (12/22/89)
In article <1989Dec16.203041.12083@smsc.sony.com> dce@Sony.COM (David Elliott)! >In article <25043@cup.portal.com> ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) writes: >>If the Mac II version really is not copy protected, I might buy it. >>I don't have a color system, however. How is it in monochrome? > >This is somewhat confused. There is no "Mac II" version, per se, >though there is a version that's only really useful on a Mac II. > >... As far as I know, >this version will work on all Macs, though I haven't tried it. Sim City Supreme runs only on 68020 or 68030 machines, so it WILL NOT run on a Plus or SE (or earlier). I have tried it. :-) The earlier version DOES work on all Macs, I believe. -- ============================================================================ Mark H. Anbinder "Apparently -- thinks I'm a nice accomodating guy. 1063 Warren Road # 6 Please explain to him that I am a son of a bitch." Ithaca, NY 14850 ... Robert A. Heinlein 1961 607-257-3480 ..!batcomputer!memory!mha - STARNET - mha@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu MEMORY ALPHA ============================================================================